Rules Quiz

[1dash1]

It's not often that I come across a simple situation that illuminates so many nuances of the rules. You are a sharp bunch, I think you're up to the challenge.

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Foursome stroke play.
A & B are partners.

• A drives from tee, his ball lands in a bush 150 yds from tee.
• B plays a provisional 200 yds in middle of fairway.
• B finds a ball in bush, declares it unplayable and drops within two club lengths. B plays the ball onto the fairway.
• A picks up the provisional ball. A then discovers the ball B has played is not their original ball.

What penalties are applicable and how must A & B proceed?

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Hint: When you think you've counted all the penalty strokes, keep on looking. There are more than you think.

Good hunting!
P.S. For those of you that have already seen the answer, please give others a chance to give it their best shot.

[Nat Williams]

I'm not sure as to how many penalties they have racked up, but I guess they must proceed as follows:

They must return to see if they can find the original ball. If they can't then they must return to the tee (since they picked up the provisional) and hit another shot.

Also, a question for once the answer is given... IF they find the original ball after all this, and take a drop, what are they shooting vs. If they can't find it and have to re-tee it?

[Sphere Hunter]

Penalties:
A owes B a beer for only hitting his shot 150 yards.
A owes B a second beer for hitting into a bush as well.
B owes A a beer for playing the wrong ball.
A owes B a beer for picking up the provisional without checking that the ball in play ahead was the correct ball.
B owes A a final beer because A's mistakes were accidental while B's mistakes were through stupidity.

Total penalties: 5 beers. Time to go fishing.
SH

Really though, my guess is that they would have to drop a ball where they think the provisional ball was, take 3 off the tee, one shot penalty for picking up the provisional and 2 shots for hitting the wrong ball. That would put them lying 6. IMO, fishing would be more fun. Did I miss any penalty strokes?

[NoBack]

Penalties:
A owes B a beer for only hitting his shot 150 yards.
A owes B a second beer for hitting into a bush as well.
B owes A a beer for playing the wrong ball.
A owes B a beer for picking up the provisional without checking that the ball in play ahead was the correct ball.
B owes A a final beer because A's mistakes were accidental while B's mistakes were through stupidity.

Total penalties: 5 beers. Time to go fishing.

Good analysis but what about the other two in the group for having to watch all this unfold?? Shouldnt that be another 2 beer each penalty?

[Sphere Hunter]

Good analysis but what about the other two in the group for having to watch all this unfold?? Shouldnt that be another 2 beer each penalty?

Well, they would have to be drunk already to play with A and B. I think a keg is in order for this foursome, if they ever finish the round. With my luck these days, I'd be stuck in the group behind them watching the rule book come out on ever hole.
SH
P.S. Leaving next Thursday for a little 9 day, South Carolina golf tour. I will miss all this beautiful snow.

[1dash1]

Really though, my guess is that they would have to drop a ball where they think the provisional ball was, take 3 off the tee, one shot penalty for picking up the provisional and 2 shots for hitting the wrong ball. That would put them lying 6. IMO, fishing would be more fun. Did I miss any penalty strokes?

Sphere Hunter:

An excellent first stab at the answer! But...

[Sphere Hunter]

Sphere Hunter:

An excellent first stab at the answer! But...

Are there more panalty strokes for the bad drop? I'm assuming they can't go back and find the original bush ball since it's been 5 minutes. Not sure.
I'm ready for the answer… did they shoot 129 or 131?

This makes me think. Has anyone ever done a study that produced a ratio between score and number of balls lost in a round? If this could be established, someone could estimate the number of balls they will need for the year based on their average score and an estimate of how many rounds they play plus how long it takes them to wear out a golf ball. I think I'm bored?
SH

[1dash1]

Sphere Hunter:

I'll give it a little more time for you or someone else to find the missing penalty strokes.

[1dash1]

Foursome stroke play.
A & B are partners.

• A drives from tee, his ball lands in a bush 150 yds from tee.
• B plays a provisional 200 yds in middle of fairway.
• B finds a ball in bush, declares it unplayable and drops within two club lengths. B plays the ball onto the fairway.
• A picks up the provisional ball. A then discovers the ball B has played is not their original ball.

What penalties are applicable and how must A & B proceed?

The answer:

[1 stroke] _ The drive counts.

[2 strokes] _ The provisional ball counts under stroke & distance.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ (Dropping/playing the misidentified ball effectively
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ made the original ball lost and the provisional ball
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ became the ball in play.)

[2 strokes] _ The misidentified ball was played at a wrong place.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ (Since the original ball was not found, the player
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ should have continued with the provisional ball.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ Failure to do so incurred the general penalty, Rule
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ 20-7/Rule 13-1.)

[2 strokes] _ The misidentified ball was wrongly substituted, Rule 15-2.


[2 strokes] _ Player B played when it was his partner's turn, breach of
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ Rule 29-3. (A hit the drive. B hit the provisional. It
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ was A's turn to play. B played because he thought he
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ found the original, but was mistaken.)

At this point, Player B's shot played out of turn is canceled. Player A must return to the spot where he picked up the provisional ball and correctly drop the ball. Their side lies "9", their next shot will be "10".

* * * * *

EDIT: I originally included supporting documentation for this ruling. However, it turned out to be too long and complicated. Consequently, I shortened this answer and refer anyone interested in the details to read through the complete discussion on the Leith Society web page, link provided in the Post Script message.

[1dash1]

Post Script:


Credit goes to the Leith Society for this example. Their website is:

http://www.leithsociety.com

The discussion is located on the In Depth page, under the following heading:

Rule 15: Substituted/wrong ball
Milo -- Thursday, 9 March 2006, at 2:02 p.m.

[Sphere Hunter]

Wow. I guess B should have made sure he found the correct ball. Seems to me that there are too many penalties for one simple mistake. I guess that's golf. I didn't see a penalty for "A" picking up the provisional ball. Shouldn't there be one?
Thanks for the challenge.
SH

[1dash1]

Sphere Hunter:

Good question.

Indeed, when a player lifts his ball in play, he's subject to the penalty for breach of Rule 18-2, unless an exception applies or unless the player was proceeding under some other applicable rule.

And if we examine the player's actions, no exception applied and, arguably, the player was not proceeding under another applcable rule.

So why wasn't he penalized?

The answer lies in a clever bit of misdirection. While it is true that the Provisional Ball should have played, that is only with respect to correcting the stroke played in wrong order. Meanwhile, in continuing the play of the ball played in the wrong order, the Provisional Ball was factually not in play. Dropping and playing the new ball had taken it out of play.

Hence, at the time the player picked up the Provisional Ball, it was not "the ball in play" and Rule 18-2 did not apply.

[1dash1]

There are many facets to this ruling. For example:

[2 strokes] _ The misidentified ball was played at a wrong place.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ (Since the original ball was not found, the player
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ should have continued with the provisional ball.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ Failure to do so incurred the general penalty, Rule
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ 20-7/Rule 13-1.)

[2 strokes] _ The misidentified ball was wrongly substituted, Rule 15-2.

Does anyone wonder why it is that Rule 13-1 applies to the ball substitution, instead of Rule 27-1?

[Marmotte]

I prefer match play, both have lost the hole! Problem may be which one dit it first?

[1dash1]

3295:

Great!

It's something I encourage all players to do, play more match play! You can see how cumbersome the rules are when applied to stroke play rule. In match play, the solutions are much more elegant.

Match play really is a much purer form of the game.

[sandbagger72]

the first legal shot would be his 9th

[1dash1]

Sandbagger72:

How did you arrive at your answer?

[sandbagger72]

count back lol. sorry i tried typing the answer but i cant type it to explain it. lol
might not sound smart but i cant explain it properly. but they would be hitting 9

[1dash1]

Sandbagger72:

Well, if you say so.

[sharkshooter]

... someone could estimate the number of balls they will need for the year based on their average score and an estimate of how many rounds they play plus how long it takes them to wear out a golf ball.SH

What does a worn-out golf ball look like?

[Golfbum]

I'd hate to be in the group behind and have to watch that mess unfold