Launch monitor question vs accuracy

[Chieflongtee]

Never been tested on a launch monitor. Don't care to but if I have the chance I will give it a try. When tested on a launch monitor are you mainly tested for the driver? And if not are you tested for the fairway woods and irons as well. If your ideal launch angle for the driver is 12 degrees does that mean that your 3 wood will be adjusted to a weaker loft as well and all other clubs as well? Personally I would rather have a 'PUT THE BALL IN PLAY' club where I can hit my drive within 25 yards of my target 7 times out of 10. I really don't care about the additionnal 4 yards a better launch can bring me. What about you?

[shovellover]

Honestly, this time around, it was asthetics. I'm pretty sure i'm going to have to reshaft, which is something i was gonna do with my previous stick anyways. My old shaft was around 83gr & i'd like to try something in the 60ish range.

I was looking for a specific look to a head & i found it with the MP.

Distancewise, without a few tweaks to my swing & a slightly softer shaft, i will probably be around the same as always.

Accuracy is a wash. I can hit any driver i've swung in the general vicinity of where i'm aiming. Since i lost the slice, driver has been my most accurate teeing club by far. I mean if i swing something that's XXX flex, i'm probably going to suffer, but so far so good.

I didn't believe the OEM hype until i got my 580xd to replace my big red wallybanger. Then i hit one 285 yds(off a cartpath, but still....)

[davevandyk]

I mean launch monitors will not only give you the optimum driver to get the most distance, but they will also tell you what shaft works best to help you achieve the best accuracy as well. So i mean launch monitors seem to do it all. They can tell you what driver head type is best, so you can then decide aesthetically what head is best for you. Therefore the launch monitor can help you do all three of the above things.

[Chieflongtee]

I mean launch monitors will not only give you the optimum driver to get the most distance, but they will also tell you what shaft works best to help you achieve the best accuracy as well. So i mean launch monitors seem to do it all. They can tell you what driver head type is best, so you can then decide aesthetically what head is best for you. Therefore the launch monitor can help you do all three of the above things.

Can't do that with off the rack clubs unless they have the same driver head with many different shaft flexes, lofts etc.. The other thing that bothers me is one manufacturer 10.5 degree head will perform differently than a another manufacturer's 10.5. Then you have different hosel penetrations from different manufacturers which also affect shaft flex. Then you have one manufacturer who trims the shaft differently than his competitor. When going for a launch monitor session does the fitter recommend a shaft according to some software?And finally do people just use the launch monitor just for the driver? IMO the best way to fit a golfer is with the use of the club connect thingy.

[shovellover]

Once again, one of these days i'd like to go out & take a day & get fit from driver right down to balls. I think it'd be great to have optimum fit equipment.

Unfortunately, my current time & money constraints dictate that i make some informed guesses in terms of my sticks. So i go to review sites & forums, golfsmith, roll my lucky voodoo chicken bones & hope for the best.

[Andru]

Can't do that with off the rack clubs unless they have the same driver head with many different shaft flexes, lofts etc.. The other thing that bothers me is one manufacturer 10.5 degree head will perform differently than a another manufacturer's 10.5. Then you have different hosel penetrations from different manufacturers which also affect shaft flex. Then you have one manufacturer who trims the shaft differently than his competitor. When going for a launch monitor session does the fitter recommend a shaft according to some software?And finally do people just use the launch monitor just for the driver? IMO the best way to fit a golfer is with the use of the club connect thingy.

Ok jus tso you know I'll explain my session. and I suspect most manufacturers have this.

Titleist. The rep had what must have been 300 demo 905Ts. With different lofts, shafts, flexes etc etc.

It's done outdoors so you can see the ball flight and direction. The launch Monitor essentially breaks done the ball speed, spin rate, and launch angle.

Using a combination of both watching the ball flight and the launch monitor numbers. A fitter will go through a series of drivers and find the one that helps you get the most distance and accuracy. Once you have the driver, you put in your order , drop your money and the Driver shows up. You don't have to worry about the rest of the crap unless you want to.

The best part is you hit Prov's. So you're not being fitted with cheap range balls.

I love my 905. I'm not even tempted to try another driver. and if I have it usually feels like crap.

If you want to play your best golf try out a session. The pros do it for a reason. The cameras can't lie, and tell you things the eyes can't see.

[Chieflongtee]

Ok then. What about your fairway woods.Don't you get fitted for that as well or it's considered futile?

[Golfbum]

I went and had a go on a launch monitor two weeks ago. First thing I found out is this, if that damn thing doesn't pick the ball up properly then you have no clue as to what your swing is doing! I hit one ball that showed up as 79 yards offline! I asked the guy "WTF is that all about?" The answer, the monitor did not pick the ball up properly.

Now what I did find interesting was this.

While hitting a Cobra Comp with a stiff stock shaft my swing speed went up to 99.7 MPH. When I hit a driver with a R shaft it went down to 95 MPH. Interesing. My ball speeds were around 145-150 MPH. (not sure how that compares to anyone elses)
Launch angles vaired from 11 to 18 degrees, spin rates were around 3700

So basically off that I am going to shaft a head I bought with a stiff graphite, where as last year I was playing a R graphite (which into the wind I ballooned big time)

Then the guy at the shop gets on the monitor and proceeded to carry a ball (according to the launch monitor) 380 yards Now I know this young guy can hit it long, I have seen him do it on the course. BUT 380 Yards of carry?? Then he hits one 85 yards off line with 320 yards of carry!

My conclusion? That launch monitor better be set up perfect, you better set the ball on the tee perfectly, otherwise you are not getting any reliable information.

Now what I want to do is go back to that place once their outdoor range opens up. They will be able to take the monitor outdoors, where I can hit balls, see the actual ball flight and also benefit from the monitor readings. To me that is the best of both worlds right there.

I still prefer the old fashioned way of testing drivers. OUTDOORS, with different shafts, lofts, heads. Plus the best way to be able to judge what you are doing is to hit the same balls you normally play with. No point in hitting balls that are not in your bag, spin rate and flights are different. Does that make sense? I want to see where the ball is 200+ yards out from me, to me that is the best way I can judge a driver.

Last summer I went to one of the London golf stores Demo Days. Ping was there, and I watch the Ping Rep take a guy through a series of drivers, different lofts and shafts. The guy told the Rep he normally sliced the ball. Sure enough, he hits some drives and had the banana working. Now the Ping rep started handing him drivers, one after another until the guy was finally hitting them pretty straight. Then he changed lofts and the guy was hitting those balls on a rope with a really good trajectory and carry. After about 20 minutes this guy now had a driver in his hands that worked for his swing. It was interesting to watch, and the guy was happier than a pig in S**T when he was done. Ping sold a new driver. Everyone was happy No launch monitor was involved, just plain old fashioned trial and error until they got it right.

[Andru]

Ok then. What about your fairway woods.Don't you get fitted for that as well or it's considered futile?

Never been fitted for fairway woods. They were fitting drivers that day. This summer I'll find a demo day when they're doing fairway woods and get fitted.

I've been fitted for irons as well. So it's really the lest step in my set.

I'll let you know this spring how it goes.

[Andru]

Ok then. What about your fairway woods.Don't you get fitted for that as well or it's considered futile?

Never been fitted for fairway woods. They were fitting drivers that day. This summer I'll find a demo day when they're doing fairway woods and get fitted.

I've been fitted for irons as well. So it's really the lest step in my set.

I'll let you know this spring how it goes.

[Andru]

I went and had a go on a launch monitor two weeks ago. First thing I found out is this, if that damn thing doesn't pick the ball up properly then you have no clue as to what your swing is doing! I hit one ball that showed up as 79 yards offline! I asked the guy "WTF is that all about?" The answer, the monitor did not pick the ball up properly.

Now what I did find interesting was this.

While hitting a Cobra Comp with a stiff stock shaft my swing speed went up to 99.7 MPH. When I hit a driver with a R shaft it went down to 95 MPH. Interesing. My ball speeds were around 145-150 MPH. (not sure how that compares to anyone elses)
Launch angles vaired from 11 to 18 degrees, spin rates were around 3700

So basically off that I am going to shaft a head I bought with a stiff graphite, where as last year I was playing a R graphite (which into the wind I ballooned big time)

Then the guy at the shop gets on the monitor and proceeded to carry a ball (according to the launch monitor) 380 yards Now I know this young guy can hit it long, I have seen him do it on the course. BUT 380 Yards of carry?? Then he hits one 85 yards off line with 320 yards of carry!

My conclusion? That launch monitor better be set up perfect, you better set the ball on the tee perfectly, otherwise you are not getting any reliable information.

Now what I want to do is go back to that place once their outdoor range opens up. They will be able to take the monitor outdoors, where I can hit balls, see the actual ball flight and also benefit from the monitor readings. To me that is the best of both worlds right there.

I still prefer the old fashioned way of testing drivers. OUTDOORS, with different shafts, lofts, heads. Plus the best way to be able to judge what you are doing is to hit the same balls you normally play with. No point in hitting balls that are not in your bag, spin rate and flights are different. Does that make sense? I want to see where the ball is 200+ yards out from me, to me that is the best way I can judge a driver.

Last summer I went to one of the London golf stores Demo Days. Ping was there, and I watch the Ping Rep take a guy through a series of drivers, different lofts and shafts. The guy told the Rep he normally sliced the ball. Sure enough, he hits some drives and had the banana working. Now the Ping rep started handing him drivers, one after another until the guy was finally hitting them pretty straight. Then he changed lofts and the guy was hitting those balls on a rope with a really good trajectory and carry. After about 20 minutes this guy now had a driver in his hands that worked for his swing. It was interesting to watch, and the guy was happier than a pig in S**T when he was done. Ping sold a new driver. Everyone was happy No launch monitor was involved, just plain old fashioned trial and error until they got it right.

Well my last post pretty much addressed everything you mentioned.

But I'll add one more thing. The Titleist launch monitor is very very accurate. It's amazing. The Provs have coloured dots on them so the software can pick up the spin. The Driver heads have markings and the monitor has to calibrated for every driver it's really precise. The results on the monitor matched the ball flight perfectly. I used it outdoors I agree, It's the only way to go.

[Chieflongtee]

[QUOTE=Golfbum][FONT=Comic Sans MS]

While hitting a Cobra Comp with a stiff stock shaft my swing speed went up to 99.7 MPH. When I hit a driver with a R shaft it went down to 95 MPH. Interesing. My ball speeds were around 145-150 MPH. (not sure how that compares to anyone elses)
Launch angles vaired from 11 to 18 degrees, spin rates were around 3700

Golfbum. Were the shafts of the same make and weight?

[Chieflongtee]

O

The best part is you hit Prov's. So you're not being fitted with cheap range balls.

I love my 905. I'm not even tempted to try another driver. and if I have it usually feels like crap.

If you want to play your best golf try out a session. The pros do it for a reason. The cameras can't lie, and tell you things the eyes can't see.

Andru. Were all the clubs shafted with the stock shaft or did they have different sjaft options i.e Adila or Graffaloy? Also I would believe that if you don't stick with the Pro V's then the results will vary won't they?

[Andru]

Andru. Were all the clubs shafted with the stock shaft or did they have different sjaft options i.e Adila or Graffaloy? Also I would believe that if you don't stick with the Pro V's then the results will vary won't they?

They had virtually every shaft available. You name. it. Graffaloy, Fujikuri, Aldila, etc etc.

I don't even remember seeing a stock titleist shaft. Mine was a Fujikuri 757. That's

Pro v's, true but the balls need to be marked for the launch monitor. I belive they had some nxt's as well. Yes you're pushed to a titliest ball but it's free fitting.

I'm not sure exactly how it works but the Monitor knows how to identify each marking on the ball therefore can accurately measure the starting point and the amount of movement using these reference points.

I know Kevin Haime does an outdoor fitting with a launch monitor. Check him out this srping.

[Golfbum]

[quote=Chieflongtee]

[font=Comic Sans MS]

While hitting a Cobra Comp with a stiff stock shaft my swing speed went up to 99.7 MPH. When I hit a driver with a R shaft it went down to 95 MPH. Interesing. My ball speeds were around 145-150 MPH. (not sure how that compares to anyone elses)
Launch angles vaired from 11 to 18 degrees, spin rates were around 3700

Golfbum. Were the shafts of the same make and weight?

Same weight, different shafts and flexes. I realize the only true way to make a fair comparison is to have the same driver head, but different shafts.
I am not too worried about the entire launch monitor process. Hit em outdoors and watch the results! Then maybe once you find a driver you like you could tweak the shaft on the launch monitor?
All too technical for an old guy like me!

[Ginker]

I just wanted to chime in and mention that I also had my irons fit on the launch monitor.. I hit a bunch of balls with my current shafts to see what kind of launch angle, distance and flight path I was getting.. Then tried diff. irons with different flexes.. I found that when cycled my current shafts were playing to an X flex. After hitting irons with regular shafts and 3/4 inch longer (determined mostly by a static measurement) that I was carrying the ball 10+ yards longer and my shot dispersion was amazing. I hit 15 balls in a row practically on top of one and other.. Once my irons are reshafted I will hit them again and check the lie angles.. Overall a great experience.. I also fit my driver for a shaft.

[davevandyk]

I just finished my launch monitor session and had some results that should suprise some people. I hit the same club with a 45" shaft and then with a 43.5" shaft, and hit the 43.5 farther! The dispersion was better and obviously the contact was better. I actually hit the 43.5 over 5yards farther than the 45"!

[MusicMan]

man golf is getting waaaaaaaaaaaaay too technical... like I like to think of myself as a traditionalist when it comes to buying clubs and such. but all of this fancy fitting equiptment its almost like cheating dont you think. whats next something telling us what to wear on the course to make to optimal visual impression.. i say "give me a break" go back to the old school way. trial and error, sure comps benifit your game, but wheres the fun...

[davevandyk]

man golf is getting waaaaaaaaaaaaay too technical... like I like to think of myself as a traditionalist when it comes to buying clubs and such. but all of this fancy fitting equiptment its almost like cheating dont you think. whats next something telling us what to wear on the course to make to optimal visual impression.. i say "give me a break" go back to the old school way. trial and error, sure comps benifit your game, but wheres the fun...

to be fair, i would say that there is no fun when you are using a club that does not optomize your swing. Is it more fun to hit a club off the rack 30yards into the bush, or spend $50 and a 1/2hour on a launch monitor to find a driver that will put you in the fairway more often? I personally hit on a launch monitor for the first time today, i had been oldschool since i started, and found a surprising stat that i don't launch the ball high enough. He told me that i could gain almost 10-15yards if i can get a driver head that launches higher with a closed face, that sounds a lot more fun to me!!

[Andru]

man golf is getting waaaaaaaaaaaaay too technical... like I like to think of myself as a traditionalist when it comes to buying clubs and such. but all of this fancy fitting equiptment its almost like cheating dont you think. whats next something telling us what to wear on the course to make to optimal visual impression.. i say "give me a break" go back to the old school way. trial and error, sure comps benifit your game, but wheres the fun...

No freaking way. for one I can't afford to go spend hours tryign to find the right set of irons. 2 the summer's short as it is. No wasting a single day experiementing. I want the right club so I can focus on having fun and that means breaking par.

[Chieflongtee]

I just finished my launch monitor session and had some results that should suprise some people. I hit the same club with a 45" shaft and then with a 43.5" shaft, and hit the 43.5 farther! The dispersion was better and obviously the contact was better. I actually hit the 43.5 over 5yards farther than the 45"!

This my friend is all in the book 'search for the perfect swing' by Tom wishon. More on center contacts for longer distance.

[MusicMan]

i see your points... tough i only agree to some extent yes the summer is short and bad rounds do blow chunks. but i enjoy searching every now and then for something that works. like a putter, i got 4 scotty c's and countless other high end putters, im sure alot of you guys have more than one putter too, its all the same idea, searching for something that works. golf clubs should be the same trial and error, technology is just making a hard game too easy but hey thats just my view. every one sees things differently

[BC MIST]

He told me that i could gain almost 10-15yards if i can get a driver head that launches higher with a closed face, that sounds a lot more fun to me!!

Correct me if I am wrong, but herein lies the weakness of what the LM tells you. Hitting the ball higher will increase carry, no doubt, but what about the roll? What is better? 275 carry or 240 carry with 50 yards roll. I say the latter.

Secondly, if a much higher trajectory is better, what do you do when it is windy? Even decreasing your angle of attack, the ball will still go high. I can hit my 7* and 8* drivers way up in the air AND way down below the wind. Why would I sacrifice being able to control the trajectory by going to an 11* driver which is what the Wishon trajectory software suggests that I do? I tried a 9.5 Wishon driver and hit it wedge height and 30 yards shorter.

BTW: I find it fascinating that so much is made and so much money is spent on getting just the RIGHT driver, that is used 14 times or less per round for a shot that has a margin of error of about 70 yards from treeline to treeline. The putter is used for about half a par round's shots and is the only club that really enables one to score low. Hands up those of you have gone and had a putter fitting? Thought so.

[downhillslider]

I mean launch monitors will not only give you the optimum driver to get the most distance, but they will also tell you what shaft works best to help you achieve the best accuracy as well. So i mean launch monitors seem to do it all. They can tell you what driver head type is best, so you can then decide aesthetically what head is best for you. Therefore the launch monitor can help you do all three of the above things.

I did a LAUNCH MONITOR GIG !!!! a couple of weeks ago and it told me absolutly nothing I did not already know. First of all, it was indoors wich sucks. You can't align yourself properly,the net is 8 feet in front of you,my back spin rate was that of a 9 iron because the tee was not long enough, ( the profesional fitter told me that that should not make a difference !!! ) they were garbage balls I was using ( guess what ? that should not make a difference either !!! ) A launch monitor measures launch angle, back and maybee side spin, carry distance only.My driver was fitted through trial and error as are most custom fiited clubs. A real good clubfitter can put you in a great stick with out the use of a monitor. Just because this thing spits out numbers, it dosen't make it the gospel.These things are machines! Some models have pre programed data! A monitor will not tell you where you hit it on the the face, what lenght is best for you, what shaft weight and flex suits your tempo, what shaft bend profile will do it for you. Monitors are are a good tool, I should say ,good expensive monitors are a good tool for a very small percentage golfers. The one lad who posted on this thread who went to to do his thing at Titleist quantifies my views. This lad is a PGA PRO according to his profile,He had a state of the art monitor to work with ,( certainly not a commercial brand model wich is all that is available around here) he was outside and had 300 clubs to choose from.This guy beeing a pro, obviously as a repetative swing and hits it in the middle of the face more often than not so you can eliminate 95% of the drivers right of the bat. Sound like trial and error to me with the leftover 5%.The swing and tempo dictate what shaft you should use,not the monitor I was seriously thinking about investing in a monitor this year, but to me ,there are to many red flags. The only ones available are the commercial grade ones and I'm not intersted in them because my research shows that they all perform differently because they use different technology and software.I could find other ways to spend $5,000.00 to better serve my customers than to fill them with hokus pokus B S that will confuse them and really not make that much of a difference.

[downhillslider]

I went and had a go on a launch monitor two weeks ago. First thing I found out is this, if that damn thing doesn't pick the ball up properly then you have no clue as to what your swing is doing! I hit one ball that showed up as 79 yards offline! I asked the guy "WTF is that all about?" The answer, the monitor did not pick the ball up properly.

Now what I did find interesting was this.

While hitting a Cobra Comp with a stiff stock shaft my swing speed went up to 99.7 MPH. When I hit a driver with a R shaft it went down to 95 MPH. Interesing. My ball speeds were around 145-150 MPH. (not sure how that compares to anyone elses)
Launch angles vaired from 11 to 18 degrees, spin rates were around 3700

So basically off that I am going to shaft a head I bought with a stiff graphite, where as last year I was playing a R graphite (which into the wind I ballooned big time)

Then the guy at the shop gets on the monitor and proceeded to carry a ball (according to the launch monitor) 380 yards Now I know this young guy can hit it long, I have seen him do it on the course. BUT 380 Yards of carry?? Then he hits one 85 yards off line with 320 yards of carry!

My conclusion? That launch monitor better be set up perfect, you better set the ball on the tee perfectly, otherwise you are not getting any reliable information.

Now what I want to do is go back to that place once their outdoor range opens up. They will be able to take the monitor outdoors, where I can hit balls, see the actual ball flight and also benefit from the monitor readings. To me that is the best of both worlds right there.

I still prefer the old fashioned way of testing drivers. OUTDOORS, with different shafts, lofts, heads. Plus the best way to be able to judge what you are doing is to hit the same balls you normally play with. No point in hitting balls that are not in your bag, spin rate and flights are different. Does that make sense? I want to see where the ball is 200+ yards out from me, to me that is the best way I can judge a driver.

Last summer I went to one of the London golf stores Demo Days. Ping was there, and I watch the Ping Rep take a guy through a series of drivers, different lofts and shafts. The guy told the Rep he normally sliced the ball. Sure enough, he hits some drives and had the banana working. Now the Ping rep started handing him drivers, one after another until the guy was finally hitting them pretty straight. Then he changed lofts and the guy was hitting those balls on a rope with a really good trajectory and carry. After about 20 minutes this guy now had a driver in his hands that worked for his swing. It was interesting to watch, and the guy was happier than a pig in S**T when he was done. Ping sold a new driver. Everyone was happy No launch monitor was involved, just plain old fashioned trial and error until they got it right.

Well said Golfbum ! I hear an echo!

[Andru]

I did a LAUNCH MONITOR GIG !!!! a couple of weeks ago and it told me absolutly nothing I did not already know. First of all, it was indoors wich sucks. You can't align yourself properly,the net is 8 feet in front of you,my back spin rate was that of a 9 iron because the tee was not long enough, ( the profesional fitter told me that that should not make a difference !!! ) they were garbage balls I was using ( guess what ? that should not make a difference either !!! ) A launch monitor measures launch angle, back and maybee side spin, carry distance only.My driver was fitted through trial and error as are most custom fiited clubs. A real good clubfitter can put you in a great stick with out the use of a monitor. Just because this thing spits out numbers, it dosen't make it the gospel.These things are machines! Some models have pre programed data! A monitor will not tell you where you hit it on the the face, what lenght is best for you, what shaft weight and flex suits your tempo, what shaft bend profile will do it for you. Monitors are are a good tool, I should say ,good expensive monitors are a good tool for a very small percentage golfers. The one lad who posted on this thread who went to to do his thing at Titleist quantifies my views. This lad is a PGA PRO according to his profile,He had a state of the art monitor to work with ,( certainly not a commercial brand model wich is all that is available around here) he was outside and had 300 clubs to choose from.This guy beeing a pro, obviously as a repetative swing and hits it in the middle of the face more often than not so you can eliminate 95% of the drivers right of the bat. Sound like trial and error to me with the leftover 5%.The swing and tempo dictate what shaft you should use,not the monitor I was seriously thinking about investing in a monitor this year, but to me ,there are to many red flags. The only ones available are the commercial grade ones and I'm not intersted in them because my research shows that they all perform differently because they use different technology and software.I could find other ways to spend $5,000.00 to better serve my customers than to fill them with hokus pokus B S that will confuse them and really not make that much of a difference.

First of all I'm not PGA pro. That's just a joke. But I do hit the center of the clubface

Second. There is some trial and error involved. That's why I recommended doing an outdoor fitting so you can see the ball flight and you have a wide selection to choose from.

Look the software isn't magic. it's science. They capture the ball with high speed cameras and they calculate the launch angle, sping rate, ball speed etc. The pro is there to make sure you're doing everything else well. The Launch Monitor is an aid to a competent club fitter not a replacement.

Look try the titleist or ping fitting session for yourself with an OPEN mind. I think you'll find it's far more rewarding than what you experienced. You'd probably really like it. iot cost me nothing. I was going to buy a driver anyway.

Titleist and Ping offer free demo days at local clubs. All you have to do is sign up. If your're a reg member at titleist.com they'll send you an email when one is upcoming in your area.

[Andru]

Correct me if I am wrong, but herein lies the weakness of what the LM tells you. Hitting the ball higher will increase carry, no doubt, but what about the roll? What is better? 275 carry or 240 carry with 50 yards roll. I say the latter.

Secondly, if a much higher trajectory is better, what do you do when it is windy? Even decreasing your angle of attack, the ball will still go high. I can hit my 7* and 8* drivers way up in the air AND way down below the wind. Why would I sacrifice being able to control the trajectory by going to an 11* driver which is what the Wishon trajectory software suggests that I do? I tried a 9.5 Wishon driver and hit it wedge height and 30 yards shorter.

BTW: I find it fascinating that so much is made and so much money is spent on getting just the RIGHT driver, that is used 14 times or less per round for a shot that has a margin of error of about 70 yards from treeline to treeline. The putter is used for about half a par round's shots and is the only club that really enables one to score low. Hands up those of you have gone and had a putter fitting? Thought so.

BC the idea is to find the optimum carry and roll combination. On avg most ppl hit the ball too low. There's a science involved. These guy didn't just fall off a tree and start doing this. There's thousands of hours of research and development involved here.

Agreed about the putter fitting. I've done it, but the driver is sexy.

[themob]

Does anyone know how much distance loss (or i suppose clubhead speed loss) there is with a 85 gram shaft vs a 65 gram shaft? Or does it depend on head weight too?

I think i would like to move up to a Fujikura, but don't want to lose 25 yds. How much accuracy can be gained with a heavier shaft?

[themob]

Correct me if I am wrong, but herein lies the weakness of what the LM tells you. Hitting the ball higher will increase carry, no doubt, but what about the roll? What is better? 275 carry or 240 carry with 50 yards roll. I say the latter.

Secondly, if a much higher trajectory is better, what do you do when it is windy? Even decreasing your angle of attack, the ball will still go high. I can hit my 7* and 8* drivers way up in the air AND way down below the wind. Why would I sacrifice being able to control the trajectory by going to an 11* driver which is what the Wishon trajectory software suggests that I do? I tried a 9.5 Wishon driver and hit it wedge height and 30 yards shorter.

BTW: I find it fascinating that so much is made and so much money is spent on getting just the RIGHT driver, that is used 14 times or less per round for a shot that has a margin of error of about 70 yards from treeline to treeline. The putter is used for about half a par round's shots and is the only club that really enables one to score low. Hands up those of you have gone and had a putter fitting? Thought so.

Very true. By the same token that you can't score great if you can't put - you can also score badly if you can't drive the ball too. I think for average players on average length courses, the difference between 230 and 250 is pretty minimal. Putting and wedge play is so much more important. But then again, how many people play golf for their score? It's a old macho thing - hitting the ball farther gets you respect from your buddies, no matter if they score better because their wedge and putting game is much better.

[Andru]

Does anyone know how much distance loss (or i suppose clubhead speed loss) there is with a 85 gram shaft vs a 65 gram shaft? Or does it depend on head weight too?

I think i would like to move up to a Fujikura, but don't want to lose 25 yds. How much accuracy can be gained with a heavier shaft?

I lost 4 yards going from a 65 g to a 72g but accuracy was so much better with the 72g 757.