Tenacious Martha Burk vs Augusta

[Kilroy]

Now she is going after the execs who are members of the club.
http://sports.yahoo.golfserv.com/gdc...le.asp?id=6559

[LBH]

You know what? I'm sick and tired of hearing this story about Augusta and the fact it doesn't have any women members... I even tuned into CNN the other day to see that their hour long talk show "Talk Back Live" was dedicated to this non-issue.

Doesn't the USA have enough problems with terrorism, corporate scandals (Enron) and Irak already to really care about this and actually run news stories on it? Does anybody else apart from Martha Burk and her bunch of members really care about their complaints? I sure don't.

The answer to their problem is this: It's not a male exclusive club. It's simply a club that doesn't have women members at the present time. With or without pressure from Burk, Augusta WILL have women members in the future. It just simply hasn't happen yet! It may take time, it may happen in the near future. But it's simply none of Burk's business or any of her members. It only concerns Hootie Johnson and the other Augusta members.

I mean come on! There are some clubs on this planet that I can't join for a reason or another and you don't see me complaining about it. I live with it and shut up about it.

But I figure any way you look at it, Burk and her members are going to keep on complaining until a women joins Augusta.

Oh well! I sure hopes she's patient.

That's my 2 cents!

LongBallHitter

[golfdoc]

It seems to me that Martha Burk is quite a character. The NCWO is for Women's groups only, with a majority of women members. Men's groups can't join. Only women's groups or organizations are eligible. Doesn't this seem a bit odd.

They don't allow men's groups to join the NCWO!!!

In all honesty, what man would want to join?

[Colby]

I don't know, if we could get a few million men to join it, maybe they could concentrate on some real issues like homelessness, or child poverty.

Or maybe they could get a poor, homeless child in as a member of Augusta...

[Kilroy]

[Chris]

All this makes me laugh. If you put it into perspective, all this controversy is just a larger version of the ‘boys only’ tree fort, with the “No Girls Allowed” sign posted outside the door. When are women like Martha Burk going to let the boys be boys? Why is it so important to infiltrate the men’s only club?
Do the women really want to join or is the under lying purpose just to piss the boys off? Does the National Council of Women's Organizations have male member’s or is it women only?
Perhaps Augusta is men only because the men want to find refuge from woman like Burk. I don’t buy that it is discrimination. Comments? :crying

[Kilroy]

Why aren't women allowed on the PGA Tour?

[Chris]

? Why aren't women allowed on the PGA Tour?


I guess for the same reason men aren't on the cover of Cosmopolitan or aren't a centerfold in Playboy. Somethings (other than deoderant) are made for men and some for women. What does LPGA stand for? Where do we draw the line? There are bigger fish to fry than to go after some good ol' boys who want to play a bit of golf, smoke a good cigar, and be left alone to have their men's club. I don't see that it is discrimination. If the members discriminated against women then none of them would be married to them.

[em69]

Originally posted by Chris
I guess for the same reason men aren't on the cover of Cosmopolitan or aren't a centerfold in Playboy. Somethings (other than deoderant) are made for men and some for women.

Chris,
Compare apples to apples please. Ever hear of Playgirl? Ever hear of GQ? It's identical to Playboy and Cosmo...women by it for the same reason men do.

Where on earth did you read that Augusta was "made" for men only Chris? I'd be very interested in knowing more about that.

Originally posted by Chris
Where do we draw the line?

Draw the line? Are you setting your foot down? Sounds like your acting like a spoiled child. Maybe you should jump on the band wagon and call Augusta and give them your support Chris. The members of Augusta seem somewhat spoiled themselves.

Come on guys, cut a little bit of slack...you are all starting to scare me. If it was a black person (let's say a black man to make the argument easier)...do you really feel you'd be saying the same thing as you are right now? What's the difference, a black person or a women...? Come on what's the difference?

All human beings should be treated equally.

This is a golf course we are talking about here, not flipping Buckingham Palace...it's A GOLF COURSE.

[Chris]

"Ever hear of Playgirl? Ever hear of GQ? It's identical to Playboy and Cosmo...women by it for the same reason men do."

DUH!!! My point exactly! Somethings are made for men and some for women.

"Where did you hear that Augusta was made for any gender BUT men? Everybody knows it's membership is all men. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...3_golf10x.html

Maybe they don't advertise it as being a mens club but we all know it is. Did women build the club? If it wasn't all male membership then why do you think Burk and the NCWO are going after the exec's? Augusta's membership is all men and they vote in who they want! Does the fact that there are no women members tell you anything Em69?

And yes I support Augusta and every other person out there who believes in tradition.

I agree with you that all human's have a right to be treated equally. And I also believe that some people should mind their own business.

So are you saying EM69 that we as men don't have a right to restrict women from a portion of our day/week? Does this mean that eventually if we want to hang out with the boys, that we'll have to go the 'men's room', or are you saying that women should have a right in there as well? Where do we draw the line?

All I'm saying is that if the men want a mens club let them have a mens club and if the women want a womens club, then let them have a womens club.

"Are you setting your foot down? Sounds like your acting like a spoiled child. Maybe you should jump on the band wagon and call Augusta and give them your support Chris. The members of Augusta seem somewhat spoiled themselves."

You don't know me EM69 and would appreciate respect for my opinion and not have to read your remarks referring to me as a spoiled child. thnx[

[NoBack]

This does make for some good reading. Way too funny.

Just too bad I dont have a laptop to bring it with me for my morning readings.

[Kilroy]

The "Pay Per View" option for the Masters telecast is now being tossed around. That really sucks, but I am sure it is only a matter of time.
Next, the players will put on spandex costumes and use nicknames names like "The Hulk" or "Tiger"... oops

[golfdoc]

The Members of Augusta, as a group or organisation, should apply to Martha Burk's NCWO. In the eligibility requirements, the NCWO states that Women's Organisations only are allowed.

I would hope that she would allow them to join.

As for the other arguments above. There are two kinds of people in the world. You are born as a man or a woman. That is the only distinction that a person should have. Race or religion should not be an issue.

Everything is separated based on gender. Leagues, washrooms, schools even. There is nothing wrong with that. GoodLife Fitness has Womens only gyms. That's OK.

If Martha Burk really wants to do this for equality, then shut down the LPGA and the WTA and every other women's sports league. Make everyone compete together. And get rid of Mens day and Women's day at the golf courses and get rid of Men's size clothing and womens size clothing... Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chris]

I agree with golfdoc!!

I was born male and came into this world with all the equipment (batteries not included) and I like being a man. I spend a considerable amount of time with my girlfriend and subsequently I don't spend alot of time out with the lads. When the guys do get together none of us have our wives or gilfriends with us for one simple reason...we don't want them around and they don't want to be out with us. It's about respect for our space. The members of Augusta aren't hurting anyone, so Burk should just let them be to enjoy their time without women around if that's what the members want. No offence to women in general, just woman like Burk who find cause in upsetting the apple cart.

Enough said!

[Kilroy]

Some people are still brave enough to start an all male golf club, and tell it like it is.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ins...6/underground/

[natgolfer]

It may not be right, but the truth is, boys, that we are living in a woman's world. Ms. Burk will eventually get her way, sadly, and then move on to some other "cause." If you are white, male and single, you should know by now that you don't stand a snowball's chance in h---.

Our fire and police departments are hiring recruits who were easily beaten by men in the various tests required for the job, butb because they are women, or visible minorities, they got to jump the queue. For years our school system was promoting women to vice-principal and principal jobs because they were women, leaving the equally competent males at the bottom of the line. Call me old fashioned , but if someone is capable and qualified to do the job, regardless of their sex, race,...they should get the chance to do the job.

There have been many vociferous, feminist, hetersoexual females, who, because they feel they have been discriminated against for years and rightly so in some cases, tried to apply reverse discrimination and got away with it. Of course, homosexual females, who make up a disproportionate number of the womens' organizations, have no use for males anyway. They have the money, time, read- married to well heeled men, and are organized.

Until men get their act together and fight this reverse discrimination, the organized women will get their way, and it is so sad.

We should be celebrating our differences.

[Chris]

:multi

I vote that natgolfer lead the National Council of Men's Organizations. Let's rally some Saturday afternoon at a local golf course and organize, have a few pints and discuss our cause and plan our next rally!! BTW what does vociferous mean?

[Gary Hill]

Hootie won't be bullied or pressured???

In 1990, Augusta was bullied into admitting its first black member under pressure from special interest groups and threats of boycotts.

Why isn't it OK for a woman to bully her way into a membership?

[golfdoc]

I'll say it again...

In the world there are men and women. That is the only distinction. There are certain things that should be allowed to stay separate.

We should never discriminate based on nationality or religion. We are all people.

If there was only one golf course in the world, then men and women should be allowed. There are however plenty of courses for women, plenty for men and plenty for both.

These women (Burk and Co.) will never be satisfied. I don't see them trying to fight for men to join women's only groups. I don't see them allowing men's groups to join the NCWO.

[Kilroy]

Not the rich and famous, more like the rich and discreet.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/golf/...gusta-list.htm

[Slammin' Stever]

It is the same old story...

It appears that when 10 % of the populous owns 90% of the bucks or business ($$$), Burks opinion or anyone else won't mean anything anyway. It is almost like a majority gov't allowing the opposition to blow off some steam knowing that they do not hold any real power to change or resolve anything.

Maybe Martha Stewart can afford a membership, now that she cashed in all those stock options from so called inside trading.

However most mere mortals like ourselves can only afford to be sucked into indirectly supporting their "men only Augusta club cause" by purchasing a ball, hat or a towel at $30.00 U.S. a crack. Of course that is with their "Men only" club house logo on it!

So the bottom line is that it is not only women who don't have a chance of ever being a member of the Augusta golf club, but every other commoner on the face of the earth. That's right, every one that has ventured to tee a ball up with dreams of playing off of those lush fairways that would make the typical lawner bowler envious, has been stymied!!

So maybe the common average wage earner, some who make $6.75 and hour CND and who get paid .50 cents on the american dollar should speak up for their right to belong to the Augusta club house also. Yea never know maybe the Canadian Government might subsidize their cause also!! After all in the nation's capital, the land of the free enterprise, we do have some 60,000 unemployed hi tech people in Ottawa looking to feed their families. They could use not only a break...but a real vacation..free green fees and all you can drink at the bar.

Better yet, why were at it why not also get some high priced lawyers involded in this cause. Not only would the price of membership fees go up, but maybe now they can now afford to join the list of new members having privileged entry to the "Augusta good old boys club"!!

You have to ask yourself the question "Where does it stop?"

What was that catch fraise?...."the buck stops here!"....

and with that ....... so does entry to the Augusta membership!

[spidey]

la-la-la-la-la ... I'm not listening anymore

[el tigre]

Article in today's Toronto Sun about resignation of former CEO of CBS from Augusta:

Legally right, morally wrong

By KEN FIDLIN -- Toronto Sun

When you stand too close to a street fight, there is bound to be blood spatter on a few innocent bystanders.

The greats of golf, seldom lightning rods when controversy rears its ugly head, haven't been able to keep their golf caps low enough these days as Hootie Johnson and Martha Burk duke it out in the national spotlight.

Tiger, Jack, and Arnie have all been soiled inadvertently in the very public debate about Augusta National's membership policies. At least Tiger has the sand to say the club should have a woman member. Both Nicklaus and Palmer have been struck mute.

Now, Hootie has a fire to extinguish right there in the Butler Cabin. Thomas Wyman, former CEO of CBS, has become the first Augusta National member to resign over the club's single-gender policy.

PAINFUL

Apparently Wyman's decision was excruciatingly painful. After all, it took him 25 agonizing years to free himself from this all-male prison. Now, he says he is just the tip of the iceberg and that as many as 25% of the members believe, like him, that it's time for a woman member. If that's the case, then, why did it take until 2002 for anybody to get worked up about it?

Wyman did say one useful thing. He called Johnson "pigheaded" and he'll not get much argument there. It was Johnson, not Burk, who fired the first shots in this vastly overrated and unnecessary debate.

Burk, in her capacity as head of the National Council of Women's Organizations, sent Johnson a private letter last spring, questioning Augusta National's men-only membership policy.

It was not a threat. It was not an in-your-face ultimatum. It was just a personal letter wondering when Augusta National was going to get with it. Had Johnson written back and suggested that, in the fullness of time, a female would grace the club's roster, perhaps in a year, perhaps five, well it's unlikely the matter would have ever been made public.

But instead, Johnson issued a stinging press release, shouting from the rooftops that Augusta National would stand firm on its rights as a private club to keep its roster exclusively male.

Burk must have been flabbergasted. It was, for her, the opportunity of a lifetime and she's been dining out on Johnson's error ever since.

Now, for 350-some days a year, Augusta National is as private as it gets, its business a deep, dark secret to all but a few in the inner circle. That's fine. But for one week every year, the Masters tournament is about as public as it gets, one of golf's great symbols and as such, stupid policies become fair game when you invite the world into your parlor.

This isn't some great legal battle. The law is on Augusta National's side, clearly. It has every right to structure the membership of a private club in any way it sees fit. That is not the point.

The point is, you can no more hold back the force of progress than stop the flow of Rae's Creek with your fingers. Equal rights for women is an irresistible force, more powerful even than Augusta National, and when such a force trains its gunsights on you, the intelligent thing to do is surrender gracefully.

LED CHARGE

It should be noted that Hootie Johnson's track record is not one of your typical southern bigot. He led the charge to get the University of South Carolina's business school named for a woman. He pushed to get the Confederate flag removed from the state house. He was an outspoken opponent of segregation. Indeed, it would seem that Hootie Johnson would more likely have been the type of man who would have been proud to be in charge when the first woman was invited to join.

Instead he stridently stands on the high legal ground which is situated no where near the high moral ground.

No matter how long it takes for them to capitulate -- and they will capitulate -- he and his cronies, as right as they might be in their arguments, will forever be known as the Neanderthals who stood in the way of progress rather than welcomed it.

[golfdoc]

I just don't understand this. How is Hootie in the way of progress. He is not stopping women from golfing. he is not stopping women from doing anything other than join a private Men's club.

If he is stopping progress then it is the progression towards eliminating everything in the world that is divided by the sexes.

So next we need to eliminate all Goodlife gyms that are "women's only. And I guess eliminate Martha Burks organization for Women.

[Chris]

:shakehead
Martha and crew are posting a web site for the National Council of Women's Organization's, "HALL OF HYPOCRISY". It has been created to smoke out Corporations that sanction sex discrimination at Augusta National Golf Club. Seems the battle is about to get interesting.

http://www.augustadiscriminates.org

Saturday's Citizen (business section explains more)

[Kilroy]

Augusta Dress Code

[Colby]

Here's an online petition to support Augusta:

http://www.petitiononline.com/augusta/petition.html