re: dropping on a cartpath

["Richard"]

My cousin just called me from CALI asking me about a rule… his ball stopped at the base of a tree on the right side of the fairway. The roots of the tree prevented him from being able to make a shot as his ball was right next to the root. So he took his two club lengths under penalty of one stroke. Problem is that it put him on the left side of the cart path (closer to the fairway). So he took 1 club length no closer to the hole from his nearest point of relief and it put him in the short grass just to the right of the fairway… did he do this right? At first he dropped the ball on the cart path but the ball bounced a few times and rolled down the path, second time he dropped it stayed put after a few bounces. What would have happened had he not been able to drop and it just kept rolling away? I’ve never heard of anyone dropping on a cart path before and the fact that he was able to do it without rolling away is amazing to me. I’m completely lost on this one.



Second question, He did tell me that if he chipped out sideways but took of a bit of an extra wide stance he would have had a foot on the cart path, could have gotten free relief and then gone for the pin… I told him that I was almost certain he couldn’t do that because although it isn’t an abnormal shot, it is an abnormal stance. True?

[Nat Williams]

As far as I know, if you perform a drop X nubmer of times (i think x=2) and it won't stay within the legit drop area you are allowed to place it.

as for the stance, it has to be the stance you intend on using for the shot.

["Richard"]

Ok, so lets say you are on the right side of a cart path... but it would be to your benifit to drop on the left side. Could you say the nearest point of releif is the right edge of the cartpath where it meets the grass and then take your one club length so it ends up on the left side of the cart path and then take releif again so your nearest point of relief is nw on th left side of the cart path??

BUT if you were to find the nearest point of relief on the right side of the cartpath would it actually be the edge of the cartpath/grass or would it be farther until your feet don't touch the path? I've always had problems with NPOR and determining where it is.

[Nat Williams]

As far as I know, your nearest point of relief is w/ your feet not touching the path...but maybe someone can confirm that for us.

[Gary Hill]

My cousin just called me from CALI asking me about a rule… his ball stopped at the base of a tree on the right side of the fairway. The roots of the tree prevented him from being able to make a shot as his ball was right next to the root. So he took his two club lengths under penalty of one stroke. Problem is that it put him on the left side of the cart path (closer to the fairway). So he took 1 club length no closer to the hole from his nearest point of relief and it put him in the short grass just to the right of the fairway… did he do this right?

No.
Rule 28(c) requires that you drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole.

It does not say that you cannot drop on a cart path nor does it say that you may incorporate some other procedure into your relief.

He could have dropped on the cart path and then, if necessary, proceeded under Rule 24 to get free relief from the cart path.

What would have happened had he not been able to drop and it just kept rolling away?

Rule 20-2c(v) requires that a ball which rolls and comes to rest in a position where there is interference by the condition from which relief was taken under Rule 24-2b (cart path) must be re-dropped.

If the ball when re-dropped rolls into this position again, it must be placed as near as possible to the spot where it first struck a part of the course when re-dropped.

Second question, He did tell me that if he chipped out sideways but took of a bit of an extra wide stance he would have had a foot on the cart path, could have gotten free relief and then gone for the pin… I told him that I was almost certain he couldn’t do that because although it isn’t an abnormal shot, it is an abnormal stance. True?

A player may not obtain relief under Rule 24-2b if interference by an immovable obstruction would occur only through use of an unnecessarily abnormal stance, swing or direction of play.

It is a question of fact whether or not the abnormal stance was justified in the circumstances for the shot to be taken.
I was not there, so I cannot judge whether the stance was abnormal or unnecessarily abnormal.

[Nat Williams]

Hey, I did alright

[GarthM]

Actually Gary I think he did do it right based on the info provided.

According to thotho

At first he dropped the ball on the cart path but the ball bounced a few times and rolled down the path, second time he dropped it stayed put after a few bounces.

If one assumes this to mean that after the bounces he took his free relief from the cart path then I believe he did took relief correctly, no? He takes relief from the unplayable, drops 2x on the cart path, places, then takes relief from the cart path. Based on the evidence presented (I am assuming that after the second drop and bounces that it came to rest within the 2 club lengths -- big assumption I realize) I believe he was correct in his procedures.

GarthM

[Gary Hill]

Actually Gary I think he did do it right based on the info provided.

According to thotho


If one assumes this to mean that after the bounces he took his free relief from the cart path then I believe he did took relief correctly, no? He takes relief from the unplayable, drops 2x on the cart path, places, then takes relief from the cart path. Based on the evidence presented (I am assuming that after the second drop and bounces that it came to rest within the 2 club lengths -- big assumption I realize) I believe he was correct in his procedures.

GarthM

I am not sure exactly what he did.

This is the part that confused the explanation:
"So he took 1 club length no closer to the hole from his nearest point of relief and it put him in the short grass just to the right of the fairway… did he do this right?"

["Richard"]

Sorry for the confusion boys. Here is what happened. He took a 1 stroke penalty and dropped the ball 2 club lengths ONTO the cart path. The first time he did this he ended up rolling down the cart path. Second time (and amazingly) the ball just bounced a few times and came to rest where it should be. Then he took relief from the cart path (he was on the left side of the cartpath, the tree was past the right side) and went one club length on the left side of the path where the path meets the grass. The ball was no closer to the hole in either of the drops...

Hope that clears it up. My question is, now that the rest makes sense, It doesn't seem fair that he was able to intentionally drop onto a cart path just to get closer to the fairway with his next FREE relief. Sure he took a penalty to get onto the cartpath but he could also have dropped two club lengths backwards and not sideways that would have taken the tree out of play and left a somewhat difficult shot but the shot he was left with after the free relief from the cart path was an easy shot to the green.


Here is my new question. If you are on the cartpath (right handed golfer) is the nearest point of relief where the ball meets the grass (on the right) or where the ball is when your feet are no longer on the cartpath on the right or is it at the edge of the cartpath and the grass on the left.

THanks

[BC MIST]

My question is, now that the rest makes sense, It doesn't seem fair that he was able to intentionally drop onto a cart path just to get closer to the fairway...

It is fair. It cost him 1 stroke and as long as he drops the ball within 2 clublengths, not nearer the hole, from the unplayable point, the drop is fair. Why should he have to be left with a more difficult shot? He has already paid the price. The strategy of dropping on the cart path is a good one as he will be able to get relief which may make his next shot easier. That is just good fortune.

If you are on the cartpath (right handed golfer) is the nearest point of relief where the ball meets the grass (on the right) or where the ball is when your feet are no longer on the cartpath on the right or is it at the edge of the cartpath and the grass on the left.

The nearest point of relief is the closest point on the golf course, not nearer the hole, that gets you away from the condition from which you want relief. It could be the right side of the cart path AND it could also be the left side, as it depends on where the ball actually is on the path. If the ball is on the geometric middle of the path then relief would be on the left side, facing the hole. But, if the ball is on the right side of the path, the NPR could be on either side of the path, not by choice, as it just depends on what point is closest to where the ball lays.

["Richard"]

got it, thanks guys. Much apreciated.