Bad Course Management 101

[jvincent]

OK, to not derail golflogic's thread, since he is going to be getting good advice from real pros, I will start a thread for all the things you know you shouldn't have done on the golf course, but did anyway.

Since those that have played with me know that I am not risk averse in my golfing style, I will start.

1. Driver off the deck. Rarely is this successful if you're not a very good golfer. BUT, if the ball is sitting up, and you've got lot's of run up in front of the green, have a rip. When successful it's a rush. My success ratio: 2 / ~50.

2. The long carry over water on a par 5 with a fairway wood. You know you can make eagle if you hit it perfectly. Why settle for a measly birdie by laying up in the fairway? That wind in your face isn't going to bother you. Success ratio: 10 / ???

3. Driving the green on a short par 4. You know you can reach it. The guys on the green won't be mad, in fact they'll be impressed. That assumes of course you don't wait for them to clear (I usually do if I have a real chance of hitting it).
Success ratio: 3 / ~25

4. Cut the corner on the dogleg. That big tree guarding the corner? It's 80% air. Let 'er rip! Hell, tee it up high and hit it over the tree. Success ratio: ~40%

5. Threading the needle through the trees. Why punch out sideways when you can see the green? If you can see it, you can hit it. Success ratio: ~10%

6. Fire at the pin. Now really, what are the odds of short siding yourself if you miss? You're just as likely to hit the middle of the green if you miss. Success ratio: Not sure on this one.

7. The circus shot. I'm waiting for a lie where I can hit the "backwards over the head" flop shot or ricochet off of the retaining wall.

Others?

[covanant]

Driver from a fairway bunker!
My sucsess rate o for 2!

[el tigre]

Well first of all, IMHO there are very few definitive standards for "good" course management. That's because a "good" or "bad" decision is dependent not only on your overall abilities as a golfer (usually indicated by your handicap), but by your particular strengths and weaknesses.

For example, cutting the corner on a dogleg or a long carry over water with a fairway wood is not necessarily a high-risk shot for me. I hit fairway woods pretty well and I'm a high ball hitter. But firing at the pin IS a high-risk shot for me, because I'm not a very good irons player. Your mileage may differ.

But IMHO, one "cardinal" rule of course management is that if the risky shot won't save you a stroke, don't even consider it. Playing a risky shot so you can hit a 9-iron approach instead of a 6-iron approach is never worth it. But if you're a long hitter and can reach a par 5 in 2 or a short par 4 in 1, then IMHO it is worth considering regardless of your handicap. You just need to know your own game.

One thing I would add to the list is playing any shot that requires you to "work the ball". I have met very few golfers who can intentionally hit a draw when their usual shot is a fade or vice versa. But there never seems to be a shortage of people who try it.

[jvincent]

One thing I would add to the list is playing any shot that requires you to "work the ball". I have met very few golfers who can intentionally hit a draw when their usual shot is a fade or vice versa. But there never seems to be a shortage of people who try it.

Strangely enough, this one I don't have too much trouble with. This is an example of how I am "better" now than I used to be before.

The issue with working the ball for me is controlling how much "english" I put on it.

[Started2k3]

I kind of agree with el tigre.

If you know your ability and play with that in mind, then there is no "bad" course management.

An example: Central 1 at manderley second shot. I always use my 3w to hit it over the right edge of the long pond. Why?
1) because I know I can make it.
2) If I hit a bad shot, my slice will take care of me.
3) If I hit a draw...wait I don't think I have ever hit a draw.
I wouldn't consider this bad course management. It may seem risky, but I have only gone in the water once from a topped shot.

If you know your ability and play the shot anyway, then this describes "bad" course management.

An example: Central 9 at manderley off the tee, ditch at the 250 yd mark. I know my driver will either clear it or land in it. I still keep hitting my driver. Why?
Because I am ignoring what I know is my ability.
This is bad course management.

[Nat Williams]

Started2k3, are you a member @ Manderley?

[Started2k3]

Started2k3, are you a member @ Manderley?

No.

But I live only 18 minutes away and my bosses are both members there. So I fill in when their regular foursome is incomplete.

I really like the course, and in the few years that I have been playing, I have played there the most.

[Kilroy]

The biggest thing in course management (to me) is knowing your distances, both cary and roll, as well as your normal ball flight with each club.

ie: Can I really get over that tree, or cary that pond with the club I will use for the shot?

Play the percentages.

• 75% or better chance of success, I am gonna go for it.
• 50% to 75% It's probably worth the gamble, but it depends on how the day has been going, and the potential reward.
• Close to 50/50? As Terry said if it won't save you a stroke, why risk it? I tend to bail more easily than some I have played with.
• 40% - 50% Only if I am in need of a miracle to win the hole.
• Less than that - Take your lumps, chip it out, get it back in play.

[Colby]

• Close to 50/50? As Terry said if it won't save you a stroke, why risk it? I tend to bail more easily than some I have played with.

Can I have three guesses who this may be? And I won't count the first two! LMAO!!!

[Sakuraba]

How about the elusive "skip it over the water hazard" shot? I've tried this 3 times last year on #6 at Renfrew, I've almost always gotten a couple of skips, but the closest I've come is having the ball bang into the wooden perimiter of the hazard, pop up into the air, and plop back into the hazard. It didn't get any easier as the water level got lower and lower over the year.Its a man made pond about 10'x20'.

[jvincent]

How about the elusive "skip it over the water hazard" shot?

Are you talking about an intentional skip or an accidental? I've had several of the accidental, usually an after effect of #2 on my list.

Many years ago, Ken Venturi did a "strokesaver" tip on skipping a ball off the water onto a green with a wedge. Even I haven't tried that one.

[Sakuraba]

Intentional. I'm afraid I saw that Venturi bit also.

Also, apparently its a tradition on one of the par 3s at Augusta during the practice rounds.

[dH]

I think the water skip trick is best left for professionals in practice rounds and would always be considered bad course management in a score keeping situation by amateurs No?

[Nat Williams]

Course Management:

Manderley Old 15 (Central 7 now).

anywhere between a 3i and a 3w will get me to the green on the 2nd shot.
anywhere between a 6i and 8i will lay me up to the water in the center of the fairway.

Course Management is when I lay up because...

after checking stats from Intelligolf found out that not only is my avg. score lower on a layup, but I actually birdie the hole much more frequently on the layup

as Dan says, If it's not going to save me a shot, why bother (other than the fact that it's great fun hitting that green in 2 )

[Sakuraba]

Isn't the thread title bad course management 101? I want to hear more stories of stupid decisions we make as golfers. Can anybody trump my attempt to skip a ball over a water hazard?

[Nat Williams]

Well, it was a year of stats before I stopping 'going for it' on 15

there's definately some bad course management in there

a solid mistake that I made a few times last year (that is up there with the water skip) was standing on a tee w/ a water hazard in the exact wrong spot and saying "if it hits the bridge, i'm golden" .. or "it could bounce over" ....with that thinking, I could pull bogies outta the hat at will

[Kilroy]

anywhere between a 6i and 8i will lay me up to the water in the center of the fairway.

I always play over to in front of the poplars when laying up (read always). There is a ton of room safe from the water and a short shot left to the green. The right side has the big mounds and bunkers, then the fat part of the pond. Come to think of it, there is an old bunker on the left that if resurected might just add some spice to the layup on that side.

[Nat Williams]

I always play over to in front of the poplars when laying up (read always). There is a ton of room safe from the water and a short shot left to the green. The right side has the big mounds and bunkers, then the fat part of the pond. Come to think of it, there is an old bunker on the left that if resurected might just add some spice to the layup on that side.

If it were my course, I'd extend the fairway to the poplars on the right side..nice and wide (think predator #1 wide), but throw in a couple pot bunkers in the center of the 100yrd and closer landing zone

that way you have the following thought process:

1. do i go for the green
2. do i try to layup to the pond
3. do i chicken out and pitch it 60 yards ahead and take a 7i to the green.

no matter what, you are being forced to take a risk (as #3 is still a scary shot into the green if you pitch it forward...i know i don't want to take a 7i into that green )

it would be a beautiful hole that way... especially if the fountain goes back up!

[Kilroy]

Hmm, bad course management would be going for the middle option on Eagle creek 14. Not really your fault though. Let me explain.



According to this map, it should be the same carry as the narrower option to the right, but in reality it is about 20 - 30 yards farther.



That defeats the design which called for a second, wider target for the "middle of the road" risk reward shot, which would have given the hole 3 choices: the long safe way; the middle peninsula or the narrower peninsula closest to the green.

The stone sign at the tee, and the pocket yardage book both report the hole as in the individual map above. I put a few balls in the pond before I figured this one out.

[jonf]

According to this map, it should be the same carry as the narrower option to the right, but in reality it is about 20 - 30 yards farther.

Had I known that I may have chosen differently. Ah, who am I kidding.

Bad course management... I've had a few of everything on here, but have a couple more to add. Playing the meadows a couple years ago. It was the middle of the summer, and the creeks were very dry, with lots of nice thick clay in their place. Hit my approach straight into one of these, just short of the green. Rather than take the drop, i decided to give it a go. Got down into the clay, took my lob wedge, and hammered straight down onto the ball. Now, I'm such an incredible golfer that it ended up about a foot from the pin, but, for other mere mortals, this would have been bad course management. (was probably illegal, not sure). It was certainly bad shoe management...took about 15 minutes with a hose to clean those babies off.

Another personal favourite is the super-duper-uber flop shot from behind a tree right next to the green. Why hit around the tree when you can open up the face and hit it straight at the pin..worked a couple times, but more often than not, its a failure. Note to self...balls can ricochet of tree trunks.

[Started2k3]

Course Management:

Manderley Old 15 (Central 7 now).

Best course management for this hole.
Shot 1 - RH slice off the tee onto Central 3 fairway.
Shot 2 - Play straight up Central 3 to the large mound.
Shot 3 - Flop shot over the mound onto the green...GIR
Shot 4 - 10 ft putt for birdie.

Let me tell you there are absolutely no hazards playing Central 3 backwards, so no need to layup.

[el tigre]

Isn't the thread title bad course management 101? I want to hear more stories of stupid decisions we make as golfers. Can anybody trump my attempt to skip a ball over a water hazard?

Meadows North #6: I'm not a long hitter so I don't get to try for the green in 2 on a par 5 very often. On this hole even I can hit a fairway wood off the tee and still make the green with my second shot, so dammit mark me down for a snowman cuz' I'm gonna go for it for a change!

Emerald Links West #4: My theory is, if I'm going to "power fade" one into the water I might as well take my drop 20 yards from the green. Which is pretty much the way it works out.