Putting and chipping methods

[little brit]

So, what putting and chipping methods do you subscribe to? How many of you are arc putters versus pils method? Did you start with one and change to another? and did you change putters to aid with this change? Chipping do you use the more robotic method of Pelz or do you use the more feel type of stronger hinging like Utley? I haven't been doing well with putting and chipping and saw Utley on the Golf Channel and am considering a change, so any feedback you have will help.
Thankyou

[Thimble]

i don't think pelz approach to chipping is robotic at all. you still have to "feel" for the landing target. (yes, i own a copy of the short game bible) he also places a lot of emphasis on "feel" for putting as he strongly believes distance control should be paramount to directional control.

nothing wrong with the wrist hinge approach. the key is the hold the finish so that your left wrist stays flat a la tom watson. great way to blast out of heavy rough.

[Nat Williams]

I have an arc in my putts now, it isn't natural for me, but I decided to move to it and I'm glad I did

As for chipping, I'm very wristy in my chips. Not sure that I'd recommend it as I've seen calmer wrists produce some great results. I just have a personal preference towards being wristy with chips, it gives me alot more control and confidence. The downside of course is that with more moving parts there is more room for error, you have to be pretty comfortable with it for it to work well.

[Ginker]

I also putt with an arc putting stroke because it feels natural.. As far as puttin goes as long as my eyes are directly over the ball and my head stays still I feel I can make any putt.. For me those are the keys.. Chipping I am also very wristy... It works well but I wouldn't recommend it for most..

[bobblehead]

I think face-balanced putters are better for the straight back putting style and heel-toe weighted putters for the arc putting method.

I've been trying the arc method the last couple of months and I noticed I've been pushing the putts when I miss...maybe I'm getting too much arc in my arc.

[byerxa]

I've been on a short game mission for the last year or so. I bought Pelz's books (both "bibles"). For putting, I try to maintain a pils stroke, but in reality I find it only happens for me a foot or so on either side of the ball. I feel I have to release on longer putts especially since I concentrate on stroking "through" the ball to avoid the dreaded decel. As for chipping and pitching, I generally subscribe to Pelz. Pelz also indicates that wrist hinge is critical and that the hands are "dead" in the swing. This combined with proper setup and using a sync'd arms/shoulders/body swing has made a massive difference in my short game ball hitting. As for robotic, this is only Pelz saying how you need to figure out what amounts of backswing produce what distances. Everyone knows how far they hit a 7 iron, why don't they know how far they hit a 9 o'clock backswing 60* wedge?

Another thing I have realized lately (and applies to everything in golf) is the importance of setup and posture. Although my short game improved dramatically as per above, I still had some boughts of inconsistency (the odd shank, pulls, chunks). Got out the camera and realized my posture and balance were crap. Rectified that and I am now pitching and chipping great again - hopefully it carries onto the course in March down in Myrtle!

[little brit]

Mmm. I have been working a lot on my putting but am still not particularly happy with it. I went into my basement to give the arc a try and it did feel a lot more natural to me, but my putter is centre shafted to give it a real try I think I maybe should try a new putter. Do you know what heel-toe weighted means? My current putter when balanced is centre shafted and is a bit toe heavy when balanced.

[little brit]

Well I do have the short game bible, but truthfully winter came too quickly and I haven't had chance to work on it properly yet, but it is nice to know what others think to know where to focus. Putting I have only tried the Pils method and although I have improved I am not feeling good about it at all

[bobblehead]

Mmm. I have been working a lot on my putting but am still not particularly happy with it. I went into my basement to give the arc a try and it did feel a lot more natural to me, but my putter is centre shafted to give it a real try I think I maybe should try a new putter. Do you know what heel-toe weighted means? My current putter when balanced is centre shafted and is a bit toe heavy when balanced.

To test if a putter is face balanced or heel-toe weighted, balance a putter on your finger by placing your finger under the shaft near the putter head. With a face-balanced putter, the clubface remains nearly parallel to the ground. With a Heel-Toe Weighted putter, the clubface or toe of the putter will generally point down to the ground. Depending on how much weight is at the toe, the putter may point slightly or all the way to the ground.

Face Balanced
The weight is balanced between the heel and toe of the clubhead.

Heel-Toe Weighted
The weight at the toe and the heel is greater than that at the middle of the putter face.

Hope this makes sense.

[themob]

I love Pelz, but much because i am analytical in nature and very much like his statistical approach.

As for wristyness of the swing, i think it is paramount to be there, but like the rest of the swings - it should not be a forced un-hinging.

When i hit huge flops though there is serious wrist action, but then again a 15 yd flop with an open 60* wedge swung at about 85Mph would do that.

[BC MIST]

So, what putting and chipping methods do you subscribe to? How many of you are arc putters versus pils method? Did you start with one and change to another? and did you change putters to aid with this change? Chipping do you use the more robotic method of Pelz or do you use the more feel type of stronger hinging like Utley?

Poker players know that drawing to a straight, open at both ends, has a gretaer probability of success that trying to draw to an inside straight. Similarly, I believe that one should develop a golf swing that is closest to being geometrically correct for consistency, giving the highest probability of success, and, likewise, developing putting, chipping and pitching strokes should be simple and mechanically efficient, for the same reason.

While putting is obvious, a chip rolls more than it flies and a pitch flies more than it rolls, in spite of what the scholars on TV say.

What kind of putting stroke is more efficient, giving the highest probabilty of success? One where the face opens and closes, AND where the arc of the stroke moves well inside the target line, or one where the face stays square to AND along the target line? The answer is obvious. With the former, your ball poisition must be perfect AND you must have the inate talent to square the club face at just the right second. Otherwise you miss. There is NO margin for error. With the latter, almost any ball position will do as the face stays square both ON and ALONG the target line. Now, if you add wrist break to the former, your timimg is even more difficult. With the latter, non-breaking wrists add to your ability to be consistent. Dave Pelz is a clear winner over Stan Utely.

The fundamentals of the stroke are so simple: Eyes over the target line, hands directly beneath the shoulders, every part of you parallel to the target line. During the stroke, the shoulders move UP and DOWN, and you focus in practice, on hitting the centre of the club face(sweet spot), with a face balanced putter, as once again, it increases the probability of proper face positioning. You must hit with such a force that the ball would go about 18" past the hole, if missed. Putts that die at the hole more often than not, fall away from the hole. A few drop in, yes, but most don't. Your putter should have the highest Moment of Inertia possible, as most of us hit our putts off centre, and a higher MOI flatstick, twists off line a lot less, resulting in a better line. The worst putters are the heel shafted "blades" like the 8802's? Pretty. Traditional. But not efficient.

Last commment about putting. A lot is always mentioned about developing "feel," as that ability to judge distance on your putts. Feel, in that regard, does not exist, but that is a topic for another thread.

The chipping stroke is simple, too. The left wrist is flat, the right wrist is bent, and this does NOT change for the entire stroke, both back and through. Any wrist break brings in the timimg issue once again, and reduces your probability of success. You must hit slightly down on the ball with the ball played back in your stance.

For the pitch shot, which is a longer stroke, the weight of the club will cause the wrists to break somewhat. Just let that happen.

All three strokes should be made with the hands and arms very soft and relaxed. Their should be NO conscious release, at any time during any of the strokes. If you do, then the timing issue is in effect and IMO, the goal is to take timing out of the picture.

For abnormal situations, there will be some manipulation of the strokes to achieve the desired result, but they should be avoided, if possible.

[little brit]

Well that seems about even for putting arc versus pils. Not too surprising really as I think that that is the case on tour also with maybe a slight edge to the arc, I don't really know.

I tried both today and although I totally understand the principle that the pils method is bound to be more accurate straight back and through, that is why it has been the only thing I have ever tried until now. I was very surprised at for a first try how good I was at the arc. Using both methods today I would say that the arc won, which really surprised me especially as I haven't done it before. Intellectually it makes no sense to me. I think that for me I will continue for a little while using both methods and track my results.

The putter I have sounds a bit like a hybrid for both methods, It is a redX2 so it is centre shafted but still heel-toe weighted, the toe is the heaviest.

I don't think that Stan advocates wrist hinging for putting he says just let that arms hang in an upright posture and allow the putter to swing naturally not forcing it, keeping your arms into the body allowing a little elbow bend on longer putts if necessary.

As for chipping I would say that the hinging felt nicer to do but the Pelz method on short chips anyway seemed to be working better for me but it is interesting to try different things. I must really focus on this in the coming season.

Thankyou all so much for your replies.

[little brit]

To test if a putter is face balanced or heel-toe weighted, balance a putter on your finger by placing your finger under the shaft near the putter head. With a face-balanced putter, the clubface remains nearly parallel to the ground. With a Heel-Toe Weighted putter, the clubface or toe of the putter will generally point down to the ground. Depending on how much weight is at the toe, the putter may point slightly or all the way to the ground.

Face Balanced
The weight is balanced between the heel and toe of the clubhead.

Heel-Toe Weighted
The weight at the toe and the heel is greater than that at the middle of the putter face.

Hope this makes sense.

I understood what the face balanced putter was, but was and am a little still confused about the Heel-toe weighting. Are some putters heavier on the heel and some on the toe? If so then would it be better for an arc stroke to have a heel or toe hang? Sorry if I sound dumb.

[bobblehead]

I understood what the face balanced putter was, but was and am a little still confused about the Heel-toe weighting. Are some putters heavier on the heel and some on the toe? If so then would it be better for an arc stroke to have a heel or toe hang? Sorry if I sound dumb.

Yes, some putters are heavier at the toe. I've never seen a putter heavier at the heel but I guess it could if it benefits a particular putting stroke.

I've been told that an arc putting stoke would benefit from a putter with more weight on the toe. I think this will help prevent the putter head from twisting open at impact. I'm not the most experience golfer and I'm sure others will tell me if I'm wrong or not.

[Golfpeasant]

I'm a huge Pelz fan, although I find he could get to the point more quickly. He greatly improved my game, and it was easy to apply.

By the way, you can draw to an inside...but you need 13 to 1 pot odds with one card to come, or 8 to 1 with 2.

[rhh7]

Utley has been active on the PGA tour since 1989, he has won a tour event, and has over $1 million in career earnings. He will probably be a winner on the Senior Tour in 2012. Pelz is more of a scientist than a golfer. I have read and enjoyed Pelz's Short Game Bible, but could not get into his book on putting.

[little brit]

Ahhh! an old thread. Interesting to look back on. I spent the summer using an on-plane putting stroke, a la Utley. I have been a much better putter this year, still need to practice a lot though.

Chipping has really improved too, mostly I am using a ball back in the stance dead hands, mainly just using my body to turn though.

[byerxa]

I have read and enjoyed Pelz's Short Game Bible, but could not get into his book on putting.

I have to agree. I found Pelz's Short Game Bible very good and it has helped me a lot. However, I found that his putting book leaves something to be desired. To be honest I am still not sure which putting method is best for me. I am finding I can do an effective and reliable PIL stroke for anything inside of 20 ft. But on longer putts I find it impossible to not have the putter come off the target line as the swing arc gets longer.