One Plane Swing: The Saga continues

[dH]

Tell me about it Or Shooting a 65 on the front and 46 on the back!

[leftylucas]

I'm not looking to be Tiger. I'd like to break 100, but more importantly I just want to find some consistency!

Nothing aggrevates me more then grooving a few shots down the middle-ish, and then the next few holes topping the ball or pulling it off to the left.....

Well to be sure in any swing change there will be that inconsistency as you learn a new way of hitting the ball but I can tell once you keep at it consistency is great with what Pat teaches

[Gangrel]

Well, as i mentioned before, I've already been taught and been using a one plane method, and in fact never learned the "real" way, so I should be able to pick it up even easier.

I should have gone for more lessons aside from the City of Ottawa ones I took, as hitting 9 irons into a net didn't teach me much aside from how to hit a 9 iron......

but it at least proved to me right off the bat that a one plane swing is easy to grasp... at least mentally.

[Gangrel]

To revive an old thread.....

Well, for one reason and another, I didn't end up getting lessons from this guy.... next year, I promise!

Anyway, here's what my summer has been like, and I was wondering if any of you single planers have any advice or tricks?

Short irons are pretty good, at least for me. I mis-hit the ball still, and sometimes pull the ball low and to the left (I'm right handed) but for the most part get the ball up and usually straight.

Long irons are kinda *meh*. Once in a while i can hit a good one....

But my real problem is my woods, off the tee and also on the fairway (when I end up there)

I seem to be *constantly* hitting the ball off the heel of the club, and maybe even hittting down on the ball, thusly shoving it left, and maybe 20-40 yards off the tee box. When I DO make contact, it's a lovely slice......

Off the fairways, it's the same thing.

I've tried setting up further away from the ball in an effort to hit the ball with the face more of the club, but that doesn't seem to be working.

Any one had this same problem and have a suggestion?


Next spring, come hell or high water I'm going to contact Pat(??) and sign up for some real lessons.....

[byerxa]

Sounds like the classic over the top move. Coming from the outside-in and too steep. Short irons OK but longer clubs pull-sliced is a classic symptom. Note that you should be taking some sort of divot with every club (except for the driver off the tee), but they all should be relatively shallow.

Take it from me, you need video lessons to get this sorted out, regardless of the type of swing you want to adopt. Once you get set up with the proper swing plane you will be amazed at the difference.

[Gangrel]

Well, I'll re-re-revive it.

I finally had a lesson with Pat last night. I agree with all the other statements in here, he's very nice, I didn't feel intimated or anything at all. And I didn't feel rushed either. My 30 minute lesson actually was over an hour I think.

We didn't do anything techincal, no grip, no stance (aside from learning target line, which i always used to forget!) and that "less is more". His goal was to make me 50% better in one lesson, and he did. By the end all of my shots went right of the target line (instead of going anywhere left OR right of the line, hence, we cut out 50% of the direction the ball might go), and I finally was swinging the club in-out, whereas i used to do the good ole out-in.

I made a few fat shots, misfires, but at no point did he make me feel bad. It was more "why do you think you did that?"

My most important lesson from last night was "the thing that controls initial ball flight is the club path". If the ball goes right, i'm in-out. Left, out-in. And it all felt so simple.

I signed up for 4 more lessons at the end, and he said we would get to grip and all that eventually, but he said that he knows I can "do it".... unless of course he's just buttering me up for more lessons, but I think i believe him.

[Powerdraw]

dont want to bust a bubble, but personnaly i think clubFACE has alot to do with initial ballflight...i think both factors have an influence but an open face to out-in is a push fade-slice and a closed face with out-in is a pull fade-slice. Doesnt it sound like the face is initial direction?

i might be wrong.

[leftylucas]

Dont worry Gangrel, Pat is not the milking kind, he is one of the good ones, beleive me. I will be back to see him this year in any case.

[byerxa]

dont want to bust a bubble, but personnaly i think clubFACE has alot to do with initial ballflight...i think both factors have an influence but an open face to out-in is a push fade-slice and a closed face with out-in is a pull fade-slice. Doesnt it sound like the face is initial direction?

i might be wrong.

Club face open or closed relative to the club path causes the side spin. However, with a proper club path (and grip, etc.) the club face is going to naturally want to be square. If you are out to in you have to abnormally close the club face to get it square to path, and vice versa. Therefore club path is generally the root cause. It is an uphill battle trying to use your hands to compensate for a poor swing plane/path.

[BC MIST]

Club face open or closed relative to the club path causes the side spin. However, with a proper club path (and grip, etc.) the club face is going to naturally want to be square. If you are out to in you have to abnormally close the club face to get it square to path, and vice versa. Therefore club path is generally the root cause. It is an uphill battle trying to use your hands to compensate for a poor swing plane/path.

It will take golfers months or years of lessons and practice to rid themselves of an outside in path. However, if an inside path to the ball results in an off line shot, the problem can be cured in as little as one practice session, with an adjustment in club face position, (usually the grip).

While both are important, path is paramount in developing power and accuracy.

[byerxa]

It will take golfers months or years of lessons and practice to rid themselves of an outside in path. However, if an inside path to the ball results in an off line shot, the problem can be cured in as little as one practice session, with an adjustment in club face position, (usually the grip).

While both are important, path is paramount in developing power and accuracy.

I actually had a "draw" with an out-in swing (so really a pull-draw). It did take a bit to get rid of the over compensation with the wrist roll, but not that long because the feeling of "effortless" power with a proper swing plane is very compelling. And agreed that once you have the fundamentals in order, it only takes 20 minutes with your instructor to work out any quirks and get your ball striking back up to snuff. You can also learn to self diagnose some issues with video fairly effectively when you can't get to see your instructor.

[Gangrel]

Dont worry Gangrel, Pat is not the milking kind, he is one of the good ones, beleive me. I will be back to see him this year in any case.

Oh, I only met him once, and I can tell already he's not milking me. As he put it, i hope to learn how to "keep teaching myself" and a basic understanding of WHY the ball is doing what it's doing so i can diagnose my own problems, as we all get into bad habits from time to time.

My next lesson is on Wednesday, so i hope to learn even more.

[leftylucas]

I am at that point. I can tell what I did wrong. I will be seeing Pat this summer again for sure

[Gangrel]

Ugh. 2nd lesson last night. My future in-laws-to-be-probably were in town until Sunday, so I didn't have any range time. Baddddd idea.

Took some 7 iron shots, again, no posture, grip, nothing, just to get ball flight.

Then, he takes me to another hole and we get out the driver to hit off a tee.

7-iron shots? All pretty good, one "miss" off to the left which is only a miss because it was a little left of the target line.

Driver? Well, I don't know if it was the longer club or not, but i swear my old swing came back. Out to in, hands finishing behind my head, which means cutting across the ball.

I really need to go to a range and try harder to ingraine the in-out feel!

Does anyone use those short Medicus clubs? Do they work for indoor use??

[Gangrel]

Well, my summer is going from bad to worse. Long story short, I haven't seen Pat in a while as i wanted to really cement the lessons so I could go back and learn something new instead of wasting lessons going over things I've been told already!

Now it seems I'm either back to 80% of the time doing out-in and having everything go left (or a slice), or I'm not making solid contact.

One question I have..... is it possible to have an in-out swing, but still pull the ball left due to a faulty grip->club release??

[mberube]

The Real Ball Flight Laws
This is the latest information on how the club/ball interaction works. This also serves as a correction for what I have previously written. We do the best we can with the information available. This information constitutes a significant difference from the traditional ball flight laws. Please mull these over and over until you can really understand what makes the ball go where it does.
Note: I have differentiated between open or closed to the target and open or closed to the path to show that for instance, the club face can be closed to the path, but open to the target as in an inside out draw. If the club path is inside out 4 degrees, but the club face is 2 degrees open to the target, it is still two degrees closed to the path, so the ball flight starts out right of the target by 2.1 degrees right of the target and then draws with about 460 rpms of sidespin (2*230: that's not very much). (2*.71 degrees (= 1.42 degrees face error) + 4*.17 degrees (= .68 degrees path error)) I think that's pretty darned accurate as far as I can tell.

[mberube]

All three paths can create a pull hook. To really determine your swing path is to look at you divots. Are they pointing to the right, to the left or at your target?

Mike

[Gangrel]

You know, for whatever reason I don't leave many divots on my shots. Thinking back to when I was at the range over the weekend, I think I remember most divots that I did leave as being fairly straight at the target.

My irons have mostly been straight pulls offline to the left, while the woods have been slices off to the right (due to the longer length of the club maybe?)

Based on your picture that seems to show I'm still going out to in...... but I still wonder if that's from my swing path, or if the swing path is correct, but the unhinging of my wrists is somehow bringing the face of the club out to in (while my arms and the rest of the club move in to out) But, that sounds physically impossible..... lol.

I will print your diagram off and take extra care next time at the range maybe. My brain must be fooling me into beliveing my swing path is correct when it isn't.

[Powerdraw]

Well, my summer is going from bad to worse. Long story short, I haven't seen Pat in a while as i wanted to really cement the lessons so I could go back and learn something new instead of wasting lessons going over things I've been told already!

Now it seems I'm either back to 80% of the time doing out-in and having everything go left (or a slice), or I'm not making solid contact.

One question I have..... is it possible to have an in-out swing, but still pull the ball left due to a faulty grip->club release??

yes it is possible if clubface is shut before impact.

[Gangrel]

yes it is possible if clubface is shut before impact.

Would this same swing produce a slice with a longer wood or Driver? To me that seems impossible, but maybe not.

All in all, I bet my brain THINKS i'm swinging properly, but i'm really not, lol.

I need more work on the range I think.

Speaking of drivers and woods, I have a tendency to hit down on the ball off the tee. The evidince of this is an occasional sky high shot, but mostly the fact that the tee ends up in the ground with a bit of a divot after. Are there any drills that can help me keep the club from heading down off the tee?

[mberube]

Yes the same swing can cause both trajectories. Does the ball start left, centre or right of the target when you slice?

A good drill is to tee the ball extremely high and make three practice swings with the club head waist high. The set up and hit the ball in the upswing with that same feeling.

Mike

[Gangrel]

Yes the same swing can cause both trajectories. Does the ball start left, centre or right of the target when you slice?

A good drill is to tee the ball extremely high and make three practice swings with the club head waist high. The set up and hit the ball in the upswing with that same feeling.

Mike

The majority of the slices start pretty straight and then go right in the last half of the ball flight.I sometimes wonder if i'm bent over too much at the waist, thus creating a flatter plane. I've tried standing up more, so the club doesn't move in and out from my body as much, but can't seem to pull it off.

I'll try the drill next time I'm at the range... thanks for all the advice too.....

[leftylucas]

if your ball starts out where you want it to go then at the end slices or fades then very likley your face is open at impact. Sooo many things can cause the face to open that you may get lost in reading it all. I would start with holding the club in front of you waist high then turn like you are going to swing and swing it back and stop it in front of you waist high not too fast (kinda like a baseball swing). Once stopped if you see the face is open then try making your grip slightly stronger and do it again. When you see the face is square keep that grip and try hitting a drive. Simple things are often the best solutions FIRST!