Chain linked fence at Loch March

[LBH]

Gary,

What's the ruling when a chain linked fence defining the limits of a course (such as on the left side of the 15th hole at Loch March) obstructs your swing path (especially those stupid metal posts running from the ground to midway up the fence at a 45 degree angle!!!)?

Since the fence is a man made obstruction, would it be the same ruling as for cart paths?

Thanks

LongBallHitter

P.S.: What was Loch March thinking when they put up this fence? It creates a "nice" view on the hole (see sarcasm here). Wouldn't white stakes have done the job just fine? Some people...

[Kilroy]

I believe that you get no relief from a fence defining out of bounds. If the fence were in bounds you'd get relief if it affcted your stance or swing, but not line of sight.

[LBH]

The supporting metal posts are in bound though. So do I get relief from those if they obstruct my swing path?

[Kilroy]

Not if they are attached to the fence that defines OB.

[spidey]

Ooops, Dan...

Decision:
24/2 Angled Supports or Guy Wires Supporting Boundary Fence
Q. Angled supports or guy wires support a boundary fence or a protective net above such a fence. If the angled supports or guy wires extend onto the course, are they obstructions?

A. Any part of such an angled support or guy wire which is in bounds is an obstruction.


Therefore, you get relief from any obstruction that is in bounds.

[Kilroy]

Hmm reading further...

24/3 Concrete Bases of Boundary Fence Posts Q. Posts of a boundary fence have been set in concrete bases 14 inches in diameter. Are the parts of the bases within the boundary of the course obstructions?

A. No. Such a base is part of the fence and thus no part of it is an obstruction — see Definition of "Obstructions." If such bases are at or below ground level, the boundary line is the inside points of the fence posts at ground level. If they are above ground level, the Committee should clarify the location of the boundary line.

24/4 Part of Boundary Fence Within Boundary Line
Q. Part of a boundary fence is bowed towards the course so that it is inside the boundary line formed by the fence posts. A player’s ball comes to rest against this part of the fence. Is the player entitled to relief under Rule 24-2b?

A. No. A fence defining out of bounds is not an obstruction even if part of it is inside the boundary line formed by the fence posts — see Definitions of "Obstructions" and "Out of Bounds."

Sooo if the fence itself leans in or a cement post support is in bounds then it is tough luck, but the angled supports are obstructions and therefore free relief. That makes no sense to me. If it's part of the fence it's part of the fence... Oh well. Thanks Spidey.

[spidey]

Hey, I'm in the same boat as you... I just read the stuff, I think it's rather dubious too, but... hey.

For all I know, Gary's gonna come on here and tell me I've got the wrong decision, or I've interereted it incorrectly. But, until he does, I'll remember I get relief from support stakes of a boundary fence if they're in bounds.... I hope..

[Gary Hill]

Angled supports or guy wires for a high net above an out of bounds fence could possibly entend quite a distance out onto the course.

It would not be equitable to prohibt relief from such a support which is some distance from the actual out of bounds line.

The actual fence defining out of bounds is not an obstruction. No relief.

The angled supports or guy wires are obstructions. Free relief.

I don't make the Rules, folks. I just try to explain them.

[mjf]

I'm opening up an old thread here because I was in the same situation on Loch March #15 today and I'm looking for some further clarification.

My tee shot came to rest in the hazard on the left side of the fairway about 4-5 feet from the chain link fence. One of the angled supports was about 10 feet in front of me and was definitely between me and my intended target. So... even though I was in the hazard, was I entitled to relief? If so, where would my relief be? In order to get the supports out of my line of play, my only option would have been to drop to the right (outside the hazard) because if I went backwards there would always be a support in my way.

In case you're interested, I played the ball as it lay and just chopped a lob wedge up and over the support about 50 yards up the fairway. Had the support not been there, I could have played a much longer shot.


On a similar note... the hazard on the left is only about 8-10 feet wide. Left of the hazard is the fence and OB. What would you do if you can't find your ball in the hazard and it wasn't clear from the tee whether it ended up in the hazard or over/through the fence? Do you have to assume it is OB? It could just as easily be embedded and invisible in the hazard.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks.
MJF

[AAA]

1) If the angled support was not actually interfering with your swing or stance you don't get relief. You don't get relief for line of site.
2) But more to the point, you do not get relief from an obstruction if your ball is in a hazard.
3) If you can't find you ball and there is doubt if it was in the hazard or not, you have to assume that your ball was lost outside the hazard. So back to where you last hit it with a 1 stroke penalty.

[LobWedge]

1) If the angled support was not actually interfering with your swing or stance you don't get relief. You don't get relief for line of site.
2) But more to the point, you do not get relief from an obstruction if your ball is in a hazard.
3) If you can't find you ball and there is doubt if it was in the hazard or not, you have to assume that your ball was lost outside the hazard. So back to where you last hit it with a 1 stroke penalty.

This pretty much clarifies the question. If I'm not mistaken, the angled supports are inside a lateral water hazard that runs along the fenceline for the length of that hole anyway...