PLay4Par For Instruction

[AlexJ]

PLay4Par Pubhouse is a great place to practice your golf swing. A few teachers have gone in there to teach on their simulators because it's important that you golf properly on those simulators. They don't stroke your ego. You have to do it right or the sensors won't register the shots.

Just wondering if any other instructors have gone to this place and checked out the simulators? I know they already have three instructors who bring students in there to teach them on those simulators.

[Colby]

How about naming some names...

[broken27]

PLay4Par Pubhouse is a great place to practice your golf swing. A few teachers have gone in there to teach on their simulators because it's important that you golf properly on those simulators. They don't stroke your ego. You have to do it right or the sensors won't register the shots.

Just wondering if any other instructors have gone to this place and checked out the simulators? I know they already have three instructors who bring students in there to teach them on those simulators.

Wow, that's the totally opposite impression I got about "having to golf properly". I was hitting the ball hard left (I play left) and the machine was saying it went hard right. I hit it straight at the screen with great clean contact, dead ahead, and it duffs me. I don't see how it's a good teaching tool really if it's disagreeing with visible reality. My worst hit shots were often better than my good ones. How am I going to learn from that?

I'm sure teachers have gone there. Why not? It's fun enough... If you're specifically teaching the sensor's "required" club face position and path through contact, I suppose it would be useful. And I'm sure if you can master the exact plane, you'd be a very consistent golfer. But doesn't seem condusive to much more than frustration.

I had fun, but will hit into a net before using a "pub-atmosphere" simulator as a learning tool...

But to each their own.

Dan

[AlexJ]

How about naming some names...

I think one of the guys they have his name is Nick Starchuk?

[Colby]

I think one of the guys they have his name is Nick Starchuk?

So in one post, you say a few teachers have gone there, and when I ask for their names, you mention a guy who was, or maybe still is, trying to get onto the Canadian Tour, I'm not sure he's a teaching pro in town or not.

If I'm sounding a bit skeptical, it's because I am. You have five posts, all saying how wonderful the sims are at Play4Par. This is after several people, all with some credability, have mentioned that they are not very good. Of course, people have different opinions.

As for teaching pros at places like this, Bent Grass had a teaching pro available last year, however, as Broken mentioned, I go to these places to have a good time, drink with some friends, and play the "game". It's like the game of golf, but there are always some adjustment to be made to compensate for the simulator.

If I want to work on my swing in the winter, it will be mirrors, and hitting into a net where I am not tempted to unconsiously change my swing to affect the flight of the ball, or play to the simulator's traits. That way I can concentrate on the swing without distractions.

I'll have to admit that I haven't played the new simulators at Play4Par, however, with the comments on here, and the extensive research I've done into the simulator industry, I was looking at opening a place, the new FullSwing stuff, the new sims at GolfOMax and at Chez Putter in Hull, are the most accurate. Are they perfect, no, but they do function very well. I know some people whose swings just won't work on these, but for most, they are very close.

[beatnik58]

I'll have to admit that I haven't played the new simulators at Play4Par, however, with the comments on here, and the extensive research I've done into the simulator industry, I was looking at opening a place, the new FullSwing stuff, the new sims at GolfOMax and at Chez Putter in Hull, are the most accurate. Are they perfect, no, but they do function very well. I know some people whose swings just won't work on these, but for most, they are very close.

Why not try the sims at Play4Par out Colby? I'd be very interested in your assessment given that you have actually done some research. Did you research the sims that Play4Par uses in your travels?

I have hit many balls at Play4Par and I like what it seems to be doing for my swing. As an "ex" OTT swinger, I think it has helped. Of course we'll find out soon enough!

What bothers me most is the vehemence of some earlier posts about Play4Par after someone has taken the plunge (a risky play as these sims are not cheap) to set up a nice little facility in Kanata. I really don't see what all the fuss is about. If someone doesn't like the place, fine, but the intensity of the bashing is way out of line.

[AlexJ]

Also, just for the record, the reason i didn't post a list of instructor names is because I can't remember the names of the instructors who go there. What I do know is that when I have been in there I have seen a few instructors teaching students who have set up deals with Wayne, the owner.

If you were to reccommend to me a good restaurant to eat at, i wouldn't suddenly doubt you if you couldn't rhyme off a list of the names of all the waiters who worked there.

And the reason i post so much about this place is simply because I don't understand where people are coming from going out of their way to bash the place. I mean people on here really seem to want this establishment to do bad. It's not just an opinion these people have, these people seem to be trying to make the place go under, which is childish at best.

Obviously i'm going to support the places I like in the city, and Play4Par is getting a lot of flack for no reason at all. It's a really good place, just not for stuck up people who want a simulator to stroke their ego.

[el tigre]

PLay4Par Pubhouse is a great place to practice your golf swing. A few teachers have gone in there to teach on their simulators because it's important that you golf properly on those simulators. They don't stroke your ego. You have to do it right or the sensors won't register the shots.

IMHO, what makes a simulator a good teaching tool is the data that it records on your swing - not the picture it projects on the screen. What data do you get at Play4Par?

The best simulator for teaching that I have found is the P3Pro simulator that can be had for under $500 and can be hooked up to any PC. The golf school I went to last year had one (without a projector hooked up) and it was very useful because if gave me information on club path, swing speed, face angle at impact, launch angle, etc. The yardage calculations and the picture on the screen were way off, but when you're practicing then that really doesn't matter.

When "you have to do it right or the sensors won't register the shots", you lose a lot of the value a simulator has for teaching. I want the data for the bad shots just as much (if not more) than the good ones.

[Kilroy]

I don't understand where people are coming from going out of their way to bash the place.

Before this gets any further out of hand, let me say that posters are free to state that they like or dislike a facility. Bashing facilities is not premitted here.

Do a search for Play4Par and review the posts. You will see that while not all posts are favourable, some are, and all have remained within the rules of this forum.

There is nothing wrong with the posts that read "Ya, I went to this place near its opening and was very disappointed with it. The sensors have problems picking up shots and the chipping & putting is very difficult." That is the proper way to post a negative comment. The vast majority of posts are made in that fashion and I certainly do not call that "bashing".

stuck up people who want a simulator to stroke their ego.

Since you did not direct this at anyone specific, I'll not say much here except that this is just the sort of comment that we'd rather not have.

By the way, there are posative and negative comments about all the various sims in town.

[AlexJ]

When "you have to do it right or the sensors won't register the shots", you lose a lot of the value a simulator has for teaching. I want the data for the bad shots just as much (if not more) than the good ones.

That's a valid point, but i suppose it just comes down to how people would rather be taught. I personally just like the idea that there's something on my shoulders saying: "Listen... if you yourself don't improve, neither will your swing."

And i have just found that a simulator like that really does tell you exactly what you're doing wrong. It's something you can plainly see and feel when you make your shot. I have found that its something that lets you know you've done something wrong and makes you have to correct it. That correction is the essence of improving your swing.

[AlexJ]

Since you did not direct this at anyone specific, I'll not say much here except that this is just the sort of comment that we'd rather not have.

Apologies on that, but it was more directed to people that I see with my own eyes when i'm in the facility. All the things that people in there seem to get upset over relate back to them actually having to have a decent golf swing. All their complaints seem based around the simulator not taking care of their mistakes for them.

[Colby]

Also, just for the record, the reason i didn't post a list of instructor names is because I can't remember the names of the instructors who go there. What I do know is that when I have been in there I have seen a few instructors teaching students who have set up deals with Wayne, the owner.

That's fine, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they are there because of the software. There is probably room there, and they can get the space for a reasonable price, something they can't do at a busy location

If you were to reccommend to me a good restaurant to eat at, i wouldn't suddenly doubt you if you couldn't rhyme off a list of the names of all the waiters who worked there.

That doesn't have anything to do with going to the golf place or not. If the food is good at a restaurant, I'm willing to try it, the same as playing golf at an indoor simulator, I want a good experience.

And the reason i post so much about this place is simply because I don't understand where people are coming from going out of their way to bash the place. I mean people on here really seem to want this establishment to do bad. It's not just an opinion these people have, these people seem to be trying to make the place go under, which is childish at best.

I really don't think the people who posted their opinions, based on their experience at Play4Par, don't really care if this place stays open or not. They didn't go out their way to bash it, they simply related their experience with both the software and the facility. And with most things, when I hear one bad story, I look for a pattern before I decide on something one way or another. I do take beatnik's take a bit more seriously, however I would like to see more corroboration before I take the plunge.

Obviously i'm going to support the places I like in the city, and Play4Par is getting a lot of flack for no reason at all. It's a really good place, just not for stuck up people who want a simulator to stroke their ego.

I don't care if a simulator strokes my ego or not, I want to have a good time and have the best playability. That's why I won't go to Bent Grass anymore, I went several times and I got tired of hitting trees I couldn't see and landing in bunkers that weren't there. If several credible people say that the playability of a simulator is no good, I would rather save my money and go to a place I know is fun. It's not golf, it's a game.

[Colby]

Why not try the sims at Play4Par out Colby? I'd be very interested in your assessment given that you have actually done some research. Did you research the sims that Play4Par uses in your travels?

I have hit many balls at Play4Par and I like what it seems to be doing for my swing. As an "ex" OTT swinger, I think it has helped. Of course we'll find out soon enough!

What bothers me most is the vehemence of some earlier posts about Play4Par after someone has taken the plunge (a risky play as these sims are not cheap) to set up a nice little facility in Kanata. I really don't see what all the fuss is about. If someone doesn't like the place, fine, but the intensity of the bashing is way out of line.

The Sims that Play4Par uses either weren't available at the time, I did the research a couple of years ago, however, I did look at the Sims on the market that I could find by doing Internet searches and actually traveled to manufacturers to talk to them directly.

Even though part of our business plan was to use the sims as a training aid, it was only a small part of the revenue stream. The majority of the revenue stream was to get guys in, make sure they have a good time, and sell the food and beverage to an audience that is captive for 3-4 hours.

I'm not sure I read the same tone in the previous posts as you did. I can understand the frustration of the players, for I feel it when I play at Bent Grass, hit a shot and it hits a tree that doesn't show on the screen because the picture that the software is showing wasn't taken from the spot where I am standing and it can't superimpose the tree onto the screen. It's unfortunate that so many bad experiences happened when the facility first opened. I abandoned the idea of the indoor facility after we got a better idea of the costs after we had found a location. Too much risk for the payback.

I'll want to see some more credible, positive comments on the facility before I venture out there. I'm not afraid to drive, I used to go to the Canadian and play the new FullSwing software before GolfOMax put it in this year. I find that software the most playable. I can play a fade, or hit a draw. I find for me the distances are much closer and the chipping is much improved. Scores are still low, but more reasonable.

Also, when it comes to lessons/practice, I'm much more traditional. For example, I'll go back out this spring and get a video and lesson package from the guy I've been dealing with for the past few years. It's brought my index down from 18-20 to a low of 9 last year, so I'm happy with that.

[beatnik58]

Colby, there are at least as many positives as negatives on this forum about Play4Par.

Why don't you head over there, try it out and report back?

[TelUrMomISayThx]

My 2 cents
1st Cent: I have been to Play4Par, and didn't enjoy the experience for many reasons. But does that mean you won't like it either? No. But let's be honest here...NO COMPANY IS GOING TO PLEASE EVERYONE! That's just the way the market is. So what is the big deal about negative feedback? If someone really dispises the place, then that is there perogative. Surely, everyone has had bad experiences with an establishment, at some time or another. If someone has something negative to say about P4P, then tell us why you think it is good instead of just calling people and their actions childish...The whole point of these forums is to allow people to discuss what it is they liked/disliked about the place.

my 2nd cent: WHAT DO THE MAJORITY OF THE POSTS, my 1st cent included, HAVE ANYTHING AT ALL HAVE TO DO WITH THE INSTRUCTORS WHO ARE WORKING AT PLAY4PAR? I would try to get things back on track to the topic of the forum, but i don't know of any names of the instructors who work there, or their credibility...

[broken27]

my 2nd cent: WHAT DO THE MAJORITY OF THE POSTS, my 1st cent included, HAVE ANYTHING AT ALL HAVE TO DO WITH THE INSTRUCTORS WHO ARE WORKING AT PLAY4PAR? I would try to get things back on track to the topic of the forum, but i don't know of any names of the instructors who work there, or their credibility...

The topic of the thread is that it's a great place to improve your game. The mention that instructors went there (not worked there) seems more like a supporting point.

I am not discouraging anyone from going to P4P. Like I said, I had fun... I found it run unprofessionally, but attribute that to the fact that they just opened.

But like I said, my experience with the simulator was one that would not make me endorse it as a learning tool. With some small adjustments to the physical setup they have, it may be possible to add a teaching tool to the stuff they already have, but a few things have to happen first:

1 - Make the "tee box" bigger. When we played, we couldn't get a proper stance, or move the ball forward or back in the stance because you stand on a block that is fairly small.

2 - Add some form of additional sensor that would capture data at intervals other than 4" behind the ball and at impact.

3 - Move the whole setup forward, or move the tables back by a foot minimum. It's hard to do a natural swing if you're worried about snapping your club on the table behind you.

I personally prefered the way it was setup when it was Wintergreens, but won't formulate a permanent opinion of P4P until at least one more visit. That visit will wait until next year though, after the growing pains are done.

Sorry for overposting, just wanted to clarify my position.

Dan

[Colby]

Colby, there are at least as many positives as negatives on this forum about Play4Par.

Why don't you head over there, try it out and report back?

I would, but I have a few things to weight out...

• It's a bit out of the way for me. I'm south Nepean, so North Kanata is more inconvenient than GolfOMax
• I like the new software at GolfOMax
• If I spend money and I'm unhappy with the experience, then I'll be grumpy, when I could have spent that money at GolfOMax and enjoyed it.

I'll probably head that way once the summer rates kick in, there's always some crappy day that I don't want to golf outside. That way I minimize the money risk. Now if Wayne wanted to kick in a free round for a chance to do an evaluation, that would be different

[beatnik58]

I'm playing with 2 friends who have never been at Play4Par tonight. Will report back.

[Colby]

I'm playing with 2 friends who have never been at Play4Par tonight. Will report back.

Cool,

I'm looking forward to the report.

[golfCOACH]

I think one of the guys they have his name is Nick Starchuk?



There's someone who knows how to teach golf. Do you know if he is still at Play4Par?

[lms]

Play4par in Kanata has gone out of business.