Ball laying in aeration hole.

[Samick]

I have another question about a ruling.

Myself and 3 other guys are playing a match after the golf course has been aerated (little holes in the ground). On the second hole I drive my ball about 5 feet in the right rough, my playing partner was waaayyyy out to the left, one opponent was wayy to my right.

So it is me and one other guy standing by my ball. When I seen my ball in a fresh aeration hole in the rough (halfway plugged), I said to my opponent.."is this a free drop out of a man made hole"? He didnt answer, he looked the other way....so I repeated myself. He looks up at me with a grin and says.."do what you want".
Now I'm thinking ok, if I move it and break a rule, he is going to call it on me and I loose the hole or get a penalty.

So I ultimately took out my 5 iron, left the ball where it lay, and tried to hack it out of the hole. I got it out, but it cost me a bogey on a par 5.

Could I have dropped out of a "man made hole" in the rough?

It looks to be another "Appendix I Suggested Rule" for local rules....but if the course is obviously aerated...is one to assume a free drop?


PS, I now carry my rules book at all times in my golf bag.

[AAA]

'It looks to be another "Appendix I Suggested Rule" for local rules....but if the course is obviously aerated...is one to assume a free drop?'

Only if the Local Rule (specimen 3c) was in force (ie published).

[mpare]

... I said to my opponent.."is this a free drop out of a man made hole"? He didnt answer, he looked the other way....so I repeated myself. He looks up at me with a grin and says.."do what you want".
Now I'm thinking ok, if I move it and break a rule, he is going to call it on me and I loose the hole or get a penalty...

Quite apart from the rules issue, you might want to ask yourself why you're playing with this guy.

[Started2k3]

Remember that you can still call it an unplayable lie (Rule 28) and use the relief options. This way you have at least a chance of saving par instead of hacking your way out with a 5 iron.

[Sphere Hunter]

At my home course, a local rule was created that if you're in an aeration hole you can roll it out of the hole to the nearest spot which meant moving the ball around 1 inch. I don't think there is a rule in the rule book to deal with this but I could be wrong.

I agree with Mpare. You might want to reconsider your choice for a foursome.

If you're in an aeration hole and the ground is firm it's not so bad but if the ground is wet, it makes it quite a challenge.
SH

[AAA]

At my home course, a local rule was created that if you're in an aeration hole you can roll it out of the hole to the nearest spot which meant moving the ball around 1 inch. I don't think there is a rule in the rule book to deal with this but I could be wrong.

SH

App I Part B Specimen Local Rules
3c. Aeration Holes
When a course has been aerated, a Local Rule permitting relief, without penalty, from an aeration hole may be warranted. The following Local Rule is recommended:
"Through the green, a ball that comes to rest in or on an aeration hole may be lifted without penalty, cleaned and dropped, as near as possible to the spot where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the course through the green.
On the putting green, a ball that comes to rest in or on an aeration hole may be placed at the nearest spot not nearer the hole that avoids the situation.
PENALTY FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE:
Match play - Loss of hole; Stroke play - Two strokes."

[Sphere Hunter]

App I Part B Specimen Local Rules
3c. Aeration Holes
When a course has been aerated, a Local Rule permitting relief, without penalty, from an aeration hole may be warranted. The following Local Rule is recommended:
"Through the green, a ball that comes to rest in or on an aeration hole may be lifted without penalty, cleaned and dropped, as near as possible to the spot where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the course through the green.
On the putting green, a ball that comes to rest in or on an aeration hole may be placed at the nearest spot not nearer the hole that avoids the situation.
PENALTY FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE:
Match play - Loss of hole; Stroke play - Two strokes."

Thanks AAA.

[clubfixer]

And the way I read and see it, you don't get relief if you are not in your fairway. What you get in the ruff, excluding GUR, is rub of the green. Play it as she lies.

[Samick]

I'm not so sure clubfixer...I didnt see in the rule where you have to be in the fairway. It only mentions being "through the green", and that your drop be "must first strike a part of the course through the green. " I do however consider the rough as part of the course....this was another part of my dilema. Determining if it was acceptable to take a drop in the rough from a hole that was made by a machine only hours before.

Thanks for the advise guys.....and yes, I am always on the look out for some good guys to play a round with. I think it was all in "good fun", these particular guys like to rub everything in, rattle eachothers cage, and win by ALMOST any means neccessary.

[BC MIST]

At my home course, a local rule was created that if you're in an aeration hole you can roll it out of the hole to the nearest spot which meant moving the ball around 1 inch. I don't think there is a rule in the rule book to deal with this but I could be wrong.SH

This is the exact wording of the local rule that you referred to above. 7. AERATION HOLES: On the putting green or through the green,(fairway and/or rough) relief may be taken from aeration holes. On the putting green the ball shall be placed, and on through the green, it must be dropped, not nearer the hole, as near as possible to where the ball originally lay. (Appendix 1–3, c)

As we played the ball down for most of last season, there was no option of rolling it 1" or so.

[Samick]

So I could have dropped the ball, no closer to the hole with no penalty, but only if the rule was stated at the clubhouse?

What if the rule wasnt mentioned? Should I assume that because the course was aerated....the rule is in effect? Just curious on this part, because, sometimes the rules are not posted by a course, but was meant to be. Know what I mean?

[BC MIST]

So I could have dropped the ball, no closer to the hole with no penalty, but only if the rule was stated at the clubhouse?

Yes, but the ball is to be dropped as near as possible to the aeration hole, no closer to the hole. Our local rule specifies "through the green" which means 'fairway' and 'rough.' If your club disagreed with moving the ball in the rough then the local rule would have stated 'fairway,' or all areas "cut to fairway height or less," which would likely include what we call the FRINGE of the green.

What if the rule wasnt mentioned?

Then the ball is to be played as it lies. If the Committee is on top of things, then any local rules will be posted somewhere.

Should I assume that because the course was aerated....the rule is in effect?

Absolutely NOT!!! These "rules" are optional Local Rules only and are in effect only if the local committee decides they are.

Just curious on this part, because, sometimes the rules are not posted by a course, but was meant to be. Know what I mean?

Sure. A club with an active membership and many club tournaments is likely to have a Playing Committee, where one of their responsibilities is to ensure the local rules in effect, reflect the current course conditions. On our local rules sheet we have considered that while we have very few bunkers, some of the ones we have, have stones in them. The appendix allows us to declare thse stones moveable obstructions, where you can remove the stone for safety reasons, without penalty. Also, the rule for dealing with a plugged ball indicates that you may get relief if the ball is in the 'fairway.' We have expanded ours to include the 'rough,' as we have a few areas that accumulate water and stay very wet for most of the season.

PM sent.

[buckylasek]

Wow i had never heard about this rule, my course aerates greens twice a year, but i never got involved in such a situation, holes are filler with a kind of sand. Does this rule still stand in holes are not empty?

[clubfixer]

Learn something every day. Although I have never played in a situation where the Pro has allowed any kind of relief that was not in the short grass, other than GUR, I was surprised to see "hazards" are included in "through the green".
I still believe a local rule would have to be in place.
http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/books/index.html
25/15 Aeration Holes
Q. Is an aeration hole a hole made by a greenkeeper within the meaning of that term in the Definition of “Ground Under Repair”?
A. No.
SECTION II DEFINITIONS
Through the Green
“Through the green’’ is the whole area of the course except:
a. The teeing ground and putting green of the hole being played; and
b. All hazards on the course.
PART B: SPECIMEN LOCAL RULES
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
c. Aeration Holes
When a course has been aerated, a Local Rule permitting relief, without penalty, from an aeration hole may be warranted. The following Local Rule is recommended:
“Through the green, a ball that comes to rest in or on an aeration hole may be lifted without penalty, cleaned and dropped, as near as possible to the spot where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the course through the green.
On the putting green, a ball that comes to rest in or on an aeration hole may be placed at the nearest spot not nearer the hole that avoids the situation.
PENALTY FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE:
Match play — Loss of hole; Stroke play — Two strokes.”

[BC MIST]

Learn something every day. Although I have never played in a situation where the Pro has allowed any kind of relief that was not in the short grass, other than GUR, I was surprised to see "hazards" are included in "through the green". “Through the green’’ is the whole area of the course except:
b. All hazards on the course.

What did I miss? Where does it say that hazards are part of "through the green?"

Why would you have to get permission from the "PRO" to get relief? It has been my experience that many pros are a little behind when it comes to rules knowledge, and are politically, in an awkward position to make ruling. This is why golf clubs should have a rules committee.

[LobWedge]

Learn something every day. Although I have never played in a situation where the Pro has allowed any kind of relief that was not in the short grass, other than GUR, I was surprised to see "hazards" are included in "through the green".
I still believe a local rule would have to be in place.
http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/books/index.html
25/15 Aeration Holes
Q. Is an aeration hole a hole made by a greenkeeper within the meaning of that term in the Definition of ?Ground Under Repair??
A. No.
SECTION II DEFINITIONS
Through the Green
?Through the green?? is the whole area of the course except:
a. The teeing ground and putting green of the hole being played; and
b. All hazards on the course.
PART B: SPECIMEN LOCAL RULES
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
c. Aeration Holes
When a course has been aerated, a Local Rule permitting relief, without penalty, from an aeration hole may be warranted. The following Local Rule is recommended:
?Through the green, a ball that comes to rest in or on an aeration hole may be lifted without penalty, cleaned and dropped, as near as possible to the spot where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the course through the green.
On the putting green, a ball that comes to rest in or on an aeration hole may be placed at the nearest spot not nearer the hole that avoids the situation.
PENALTY FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE:
Match play ? Loss of hole; Stroke play ? Two strokes.?

Actually clubfixer, I think you missed the operative word here.

[LobWedge]

The questions that I have are, 1) Was this match being played as part of a club tournament, or as a foursome that decided to make a match out of a casual round? 2) With that in mind Gary, if the match was arranged by just the members of that group, could they have agreed "by committee" to institute the recommended local rule for their "competition" prior to the start of that round?

[Gary Hill]

The questions that I have are, 1) Was this match being played as part of a club tournament, or as a foursome that decided to make a match out of a casual round? 2) With that in mind Gary, if the match was arranged by just the members of that group, could they have agreed "by committee" to institute the recommended local rule for their "competition" prior to the start of that round?

Sure.
They could also agree to mulligans, gimmies, etc.

However, in all the above cases, they would be playing floG.

[LobWedge]

Sorry Gary, you lost me there. Are you saying that agreeing to institute a recommended local rule, based on the conditions, invalidates the round, or just the mulligans, gimmes part?

[buckylasek]

Gary hill, don't understand the link between mulligans and the rest .

[Gary Hill]

Players cannot change the Rules. The End. Full Stop. Period.

[buckylasek]

Yes i agree, in other sports they don't.

[LobWedge]

Players cannot change the Rules. The End. Full Stop. Period.

What?!

This is a recommended local rule, written by the governing body, in their rules manual. How can this not be used if the conditions warrant? Who is charged with implementing these local rules? In the absence of an official tournament with a duly appointed rules committee, does this decision not come down to the FCs? Otherwise, this flies in the face of golf being a self governing game.

If I play a round at a local course and decide at that time to have a match with someone that I meet there, and the course just happens to be aerated, we should be allowed to agree to implement the recommended local rule for our competition, without effecting the validity of said round for handicapping purposes. If not, then why does the RCGA, et al, even mention it?

BTW - Merry Christmas!

[BC MIST]

What?!

This is a recommended local rule, written by the governing body, in their rules manual. How can this not be used if the conditions warrant? Who is charged with implementing these local rules? In the absence of an official tournament with a duly appointed rules committee, does this decision not come down to the FCs? Otherwise, this flies in the face of golf being a self governing game.

If I play a round at a local course and decide at that time to have a match with someone that I meet there, and the course just happens to be aerated, we should be allowed to agree to implement the recommended local rule for our competition, without effecting the validity of said round for handicapping purposes. If not, then why does the RCGA, et al, even mention it?

BTW - Merry Christmas!

Don't mean to butt in but: "As provided in Rule 33-8a, the Committee may make and publish Local Rules for local abnormal conditions IF they are consistent with the policy set forth in this Appendix." No where in the appendix does it say that golfers are allowed to make their own decisions regarding the local rules, or choose not to abide by the ones in effect. Technically.

[Gary Hill]

This is a recommended local rule,

This is NOT a recommended Local Rule.

This is the recommeded wording for such a Local Rule.

[AAA]

What?!

If I play a round at a local course and decide at that time to have a match with someone that I meet there, and the course just happens to be aerated, we should be allowed to agree to implement the recommended local rule for our competition, without effecting the validity of said round for handicapping purposes. If not, then why does the RCGA, et al, even mention it?

If the club or course committee, in their wisdom, have decided not to enact the local rule, this means that all players will be playing for handicap returns under the same conditions.
If your group decide to play under different rules, this is no longer equitable, and your handicap scores cannot legitimately be compared with anyone elses.

[clubfixer]

Sorry fellows. I know you all don't quite understand my dry sense of humor, not sarcasm.

I stand by my 1st post "And the way I read and see it, you don't get relief if you are not in your fairway. What you get in the ruff, excluding GUR, is rub of the green. Play it as she lies"

My 2nd post was ambiguous at best. I was just trying to support the 1st one with rules notes, wrap presents, cook dinner, and clean the hose at the same time. I will speak more factual in the future.

And, through all this I have finally decided on my signature.

Play it as it lies...

[Samick]

The match in question was just between us four individuals, playing better ball match play. Each guy plays his own ball and the lowest score per hole is counted and pitted against the other pairs lowest score. These guys also like to play single skins game and dog meats on par fives and par 3's.

For anybody who doesnt know, a dog meat on a par 3 is the closest to the pin ON THE GREEN and making par or better.....dog meat on the par 5 is longest drive in the short grass and making par or better. Stakes are usually a buck each. Skins are 10 bucks into a pot and divided by however many skins are won. The team match goes $5, $5, and $5 front/back/overall. Needless to say it gets complicated after the round to divy up the cash.

The questions that I have are, 1) Was this match being played as part of a club tournament, or as a foursome that decided to make a match out of a casual round? 2) With that in mind Gary, if the match was arranged by just the members of that group, could they have agreed "by committee" to institute the recommended local rule for their "competition" prior to the start of that round?

[Gary Hill]

If you are making up your own rules, you are not playing golf.

[Samick]

As long as your not playing a tournament, or submitting your scorecard for handicap purposes I dont care what rules you play by. As far as I'm concerned, if your not doing either of the two mentioned above, and the foursome agrees to some ground rules to have a fun day and play for a bit of money......who cares.