Players / Rules / Callers

[1dash1]

Your description of the non-referee rules official seems to my 'Observer', which is the term used by the R&A. The USGA does not seem to differentiate between them on their website.

The Observor has no authority to act on a breach of rule.

The Rules Official has whatever authority the Committee has vested in him to enforce the rules. Most often, no limitations are placed on Rules Officials to make rulings (except Rule 33-7, which requires the full Committtee's action).

If you don't like the term "Rules Official", you may substitute "Committee Member charged with answering questions on the rules and to act on matters of the rules in accordance with the Rules of Golf" or "Committee Member with Rules Authority" for short.

[AAA]

1dash1
Edited to say that I missed your post immediately above, in which you do mention observer. You must have posted whilst I was composing my text.

Original post
I understand everything you say but the term 'Observer' appears nowhere in your descriptions but is defined in the RoG.
The problem is when posts include rules official without specifying when they have the authority to make decisions, it blurs the understanding of the message.
I am assuming the North American convention of description of duties is being used here. The R&A explanation (which I have just found) is a bit more definitive.

Edited to add note from R&A publication
The R&A divide Rules Official into three groups
1) Referees (as defined in the Rules
2) Observers (as defined in the Rules)
3) Committee Members who may or may not be given 'unlimited authority to represent the Committee and make final decisions'.

Original post
However, I now understand the way you and Gary use the words. I am not so sure about other people's usage. It is the presence of a RO with decision making authority that was the crux of my original point re M Wie.

[AAA]

Thanks for your patience with my trying to understand the precise authority of a Rules Official. It has a bearing on a question re the Wie incident.

a) If an RO had observed her making the faulty drop but had made no comment at all, would that have been considered to be an implicit decision that all was OK and that the Committee would take no further action.
b) Would it have made any difference if the RO had been or had not been authorised by the Committee to make decisions in the field.

[buckylasek]

I'll say a) because in soccer, if the fault isn't signalised, it doesn't count?

[Gary Hill]

It is the presence of a RO with decision making authority that was the crux of my original point re M Wie.

A Rules official CANNOT have decision making authority.

[sensfan63]

I'm not saying it is ok to break the rules. But, like the Wie incident for example, if everyone in the playing group agrees on a ruling (using their interpretation of the rules) then that ruling should stand. Someone at home should not get to call in after seeing the replay 20 times. Maybe the Tour should have an official(s) in an onsite trailer watching replays to make sure rulings/penalties are applied properly. At least it would eliminate the day after fiascos of people coming forward with something they saw.

And that is how I feel golf should be. What was decided in the group is the solution, end of story.

Just my two cents.

WOW...that is being WAY too generous. First, you assume that everyone in the group has a working knowledge of the rules, which, as we have seen time and time again, is simply not true. See Michelle Wie.

Remember that incident? Notice how her FC, Grace Park, was nowhere to be seen when Wie was taking the drop? Wie actually yelled across the green that she was going to take an unplayable. I'm sure Park shrugged her shoulders and said "fine". I'm also sure that Park was under the assumption that Wie wouldn't have done the stupidest thing ever and come even close to the ball being closer to the hole. But it happened. So, by your logic, Park agrees that the drop was OK (she does so by not questioning the legitimacy of the drop) and the drop is deemed legal right then and there, without question? I don't think so. That puts WAY too much responsibilty onto the shoulders of a FC who at the time couldn't give two craps about Michelle Wie's drop.

Here's a question...what's the difference between a caller watching a TV replay 20 times, and a Committee member watching a TV replay 20 times? What if the Committee member stepped out of the trailer to take a leak and happened to miss a player breaking a rule? Your logic is flawed, deeply deeply flawed...

[AAA]

A Rules official CANNOT have decision making authority.

Are you saying 1dash1 was wrong when he said this.

The Rules Official has whatever authority the Committee has vested in him to enforce the rules. Most often, no limitations are placed on Rules Officials to make rulings (except Rule 33-7, which requires the full Committtee's action).

And the R&A are wrong when they write in their description of a Rules Official 3)

Committee Members who may or may not be given 'unlimited authority to represent the Committee and make final decisions'.

Just what is your definition of a Rules Official and where does it come from?

What is the difference between your definition and the definition of 'Observer'?

[AAA]

The Observor has no authority to act on a breach of rule.

The Rules Official has whatever authority the Committee has vested in him to enforce the rules. Most often, no limitations are placed on Rules Officials to make rulings (except Rule 33-7, which requires the full Committtee's action).

If you don't like the term "Rules Official", you may substitute "Committee Member charged with answering questions on the rules and to act on matters of the rules in accordance with the Rules of Golf" or "Committee Member with Rules Authority" for short.

Thanks. That tallys nicely with my understanding. The problem is, that 'rules official' which seems to be used by everyone is not defined anywhere. Which means that anyone watching TV hears commentators referring to ROs and no-one knows what they may or may not do. (I know the TV commentators and Rules of Golf don't always go together).
It would be much better if the two defined titles were used, Referee and Observer.
Particularly as the definition of Referee is not constrained to matches.

[Gary Hill]

It would be much better if the two defined titles were used, Referee and Observer.

Referee
A “referee’’ is one who is appointed by the Committee to accompany players to decide questions of fact and apply the Rules. He must act on any breach of a Rule that he observes or is reported to him.

A referee must accompany each and every group from the start to the finish of the stipulated round.

This is not done on the PGA Tour and 99% of other professional and amateur competitions.

They are not referred to as referees because they are NOT referees.