Senators Vs. Vancouver

[Andru]

LOL

Man I new rivalry is born. I was reading some other hockey forums and let me tell you some of that Leaf venom is directed at Canucks fans now. hehe. Vancouver came out very strong. It's that underdog thing. Hasek saved the day. Could have been 7-2.

Really nice hockey though, so much skill on the ice very fun to watch.

This is a good thing for the sens. They need to feel some intensity they've had it a bit easy in the East. Can't wait for Calgary Ottawa tonight.

[jonf]

Sens came out flat and played terrible. No jump from any of their lines, especially the first line. Vancouver dominated on the powerplay, short-handed, and five-on-five. Although Hasek saved the day, he also let in two very weak goals. I know it was only one game, but with Havlat out for 4 months, they're going to have to find a way to generate offence from their second and third lines. Hopefully they rebound with a good game against calgary tonight - should be fun to watch.


As for the rivalry - you're dreaming. As much as a vancouver-ottawa rivalry would be a great thing, it just won't happen. They won't be playing again for at least another year. That's the biggest shortfall of the (i shudder to say the words) "new nhl". I would absolutely love to see rivalries with teams like vancouver and calgary, but unfortunately it won't happen - I think the nhl needs to revisit this aspect at the GM's meeting. You wouldn't believe how much flak I've been getting out here in Victoria from Vancouver fans today. You never know, with some luck we might get an Ottawa-Vancouver, Ottawa-Calgary cup final, which would generate a great rivalry.

[Big Johnny69]

From what I saw last night the refs were brutal. You couldn't even breath on another player out there. And I am not being biased because I'm an Ottawa fan. There were some questionable calls on both sides. But c'mon, one team almost having a two to one advantage on the powerplay, there's something wrong there.

Two moments really stand out to me, the first was the one when Bertuzzi fell over Hasek. Why was Phillips getting a penalty? He put his stick under Bertuzzi's to keep him from playing the puck.

Second, that second penalty Naslund got off the faceoff in the Sens end. He hardly touched Meszaros and did not prevent him from moving the puck up the boards but yet he gets a hooking penalty. Just brutal.

Like Kypreos said in the 2nd intermission, he would really wish the parade to the penalty box would stop so some flow to the game could be created. I know they are trying to cut down on the obstruction but last night was a bit extreme. In most games I've watched this year the refs have been good at calling legitimate penalties, but last night was a farce.

[DavidY]

From what I saw last night the refs were brutal. You couldn't even breath on another player out there. And I am not being biased because I'm an Ottawa fan. There were some questionable calls on both sides. But c'mon, one team almost having a two to one advantage on the powerplay, there's something wrong there.

Two moments really stand out to me, the first was the one when Bertuzzi fell over Hasek. Why was Phillips getting a penalty? He put his stick under Bertuzzi's to keep him from playing the puck.

Second, that second penalty Naslund got off the faceoff in the Sens end. He hardly touched Meszaros and did not prevent him from moving the puck up the boards but yet he gets a hooking penalty. Just brutal.

Like Kypreos said in the 2nd intermission, he would really wish the parade to the penalty box would stop so some flow to the game could be created. I know they are trying to cut down on the obstruction but last night was a bit extreme. In most games I've watched this year the refs have been good at calling legitimate penalties, but last night was a farce.

The two incidents were for hooking....both Nasland and Phillips got caught hooking. Not much, but enough where almost any obstruction will be called. The problem to me is consistency....the refs played it close to the vest, but they still managed to miss a few obvious calls. I didn't think that the number of penalties to Ottawa was correct....since both announcers noted that the total penalty time for each team was pretty close with Vancouver a bit less time.

It was a good game by Vancouver...probably one of their best efforts of the year. They have a lot of bad starts this year...and not playing 60 minutes every night. Vancouver definately had the edge in the game, but Hasek kept it very close even though at least one of the goals was weak (Naslund). Meszaros' goal off Allen was pretty lucky too.

Dave

[Colby]

The Vancouver papers, especially the Vancouver Sun, were heaping the praises on the Senators and I think the Vancouver players took exception to it and came out with one of their strongest games. Ottawa has not had to play against very fast teams yet, and as such were a little flat footed and used the stick a bit too much, thus the 13 power plays by Vancouver. Ottawa's penalty kill was excellent, their power play awful, you have to credit Vancouver for a very agressive penalty kill and collapsing at the right moments. Vancouver's defence also got into position better than the Senators. There was a few instances when one of their defenceman was back before the big breakout pass could occur.

Vancouver also looked stronger in the face-off circle, although officially Ottawa won more than Vancouver. Morrison always seemed to win the big one. Hasek was also a little goofy in the first, but played much better in the second and third, and if he had saved Bertuzzi's shot in the shootout, he would have stolen the game.

Ottawa never really got a good jump, but I think the speed of Vancouver, especially the Sedin twins, really surprised them. Tonight's game in Calgary will be a real test especially coming after last night.

One other point, I would be really interested in seeing a playoff series between Ottawa and Vancouver. I'm not sure Vancouver can keep up that level, as been shown against other West Coast teams, I think they were just pumped for this game (and I'm a Vancouver fan)

[jonf]

I agree about the reffing - thought it was very inconsistent. There were a few calls that stood out for me. The alfie penalty for tapping a vancouver player with his stick, one handed, and getting called for hooking was ridiculous - there was no hook involved. The third fischer penalty, a holding call, definitely looked more like a check to me - he may have been using his free hand, but he wasn't rappping the guy up with it. The Naslund call was also pretty weak - barely touched the guy.

I really wish they would start calling some goalie interference. Hasek got run a couple of times. I was, however, glad to see that nobody on the Sens was penalized for coming to his defence when Bertuzzi gave him a shot with his stick.

[Shivas Irons]

The Vancouver papers, especially the Vancouver Sun, were heaping the praises on the Senators and I think the Vancouver players took exception to it ... I'm not sure Vancouver can keep up that level, as been shown against other West Coast teams, I think they were just pumped for this game (and I'm a Vancouver fan)

I read the Vancouver Sun yesterday, and in probably the same article you are referring to they pretty much foamed about the how great the Sens are, particularly the Spezza/Alfredsson/Heatley line, and made virtually no mention of any Canucks players.
Vancouver's #1 line had a lot to prove last night as well.
Total agreement with the comments about the refs as well, too many inconsistent calls on both teams prevented this from being a great game.

[jonf]

Maybe it was just me, but it seemed like a lot of the bad calls were from the same ref. Everytime I thought to myself it was a sketchy call, it seemed to be the same ref skating over to the box. I know nobody's perfect, but it seemed like he was being a lot more stringent than the other guy. I could be completely wrong - maybe the two refs just looked very similar. Am I alone on this?

[Andru]

I agree about the reffing - thought it was very inconsistent. There were a few calls that stood out for me. The alfie penalty for tapping a vancouver player with his stick, one handed, and getting called for hooking was ridiculous - there was no hook involved. The third fischer penalty, a holding call, definitely looked more like a check to me - he may have been using his free hand, but he wasn't rappping the guy up with it. The Naslund call was also pretty weak - barely touched the guy.

I really wish they would start calling some goalie interference. Hasek got run a couple of times. I was, however, glad to see that nobody on the Sens was penalized for coming to his defence when Bertuzzi gave him a shot with his stick.

My friend and I start a pool after every sens loss. How many calls on the post game show ( team 1200 ) will it take till someone blames the refs. The shortest was 2 calls. hehe

It's pathetically predictable. Ottawa was flat footed and were losing races to the puck. Vancouver just plain outworked them. and the game last night came down to a few bounces.

Look Ottawa hasn't faced much competition to start the year. Teams are still trying to get their feet undet them. Like Calgary, TB, Van. They're all going to be in it good thing they're in the west. Ottawa gets to play. Toronto, Boston(improved but not a force), Montreal, Buffalo etc. These are not teams that are going to beat your brains in. The intensity over the last two days has been awesome. Reminds me of playoff hockey.

[mcnorth]

I think there are a lot of teams (and coaches) out there who are starting to figure what is and what isn't OK and how to take advantage of the new rules. The Sens got off to a fast start and the brass and players are to be commended for getting the proverbial leg-up on the competition.
What I've seen in the last few weeks leads me to believe that league-wide the disparities are starting to diminish. The scores in the last month have also gone down (it appears) and there haven't been nearly as many one-sided blowouts lately. It's all anecdotal but I think the league is starting to settle and get more competitive again one through thirty.
That western road trip is always brutal but it was impressive to watch Calgary take away Ottawa's transition and rush attacks and create traffic at the blue lines. The Sens are not nearly as effective scoring from cycling and working down low as they are on the rush. Force them deep and they're not nearly as dangerous.

[Big Johnny69]

mcnorth, I voiced your exact observations in an earlier thread. The Sens are great on the rush but have to work a little more on the cycle. I agree with you completely on that point. I am intrigued by your other observations. Never really thought of if that way. But it would make sense with the reduction in high scoring games that teams are starting to figure out a system to negate the high speed, no red line attacks. Interesting point of views.

[davevandyk]

Actually in last nights game i thought Ottawa was better at cycling than anyother game i have seen. The line of Fisher-Schaeffer-Neil was awesome at cycling, just couldn't get the puck past Kipper. Don't take anything away from him, Ottawa got some great chances, but Kipper played great last nite.

[Big Johnny69]

Funny you mention that. I was going to state other than Shaeffer and Fisher the Sens don't have much success on the boards. Good point Dave.

[jonf]

My friend and I start a pool after every sens loss. How many calls on the post game show ( team 1200 ) will it take till someone blames the refs. The shortest was 2 calls. hehe

It's pathetically predictable. Ottawa was flat footed and were losing races to the puck. Vancouver just plain outworked them. and the game last night came down to a few bounces.

Look Ottawa hasn't faced much competition to start the year. Teams are still trying to get their feet undet them. Like Calgary, TB, Van. They're all going to be in it good thing they're in the west. Ottawa gets to play. Toronto, Boston(improved but not a force), Montreal, Buffalo etc. These are not teams that are going to beat your brains in. The intensity over the last two days has been awesome. Reminds me of playoff hockey.

Read my posts - didn't blame the refs. The Sens got outplayed. I didn't think the reffing was good, but there were bad calls each way. When the sens did get powerplays, they couldn't get a shot anyway. It would have been a better game had there been fewer penalties, but the Sens lost all on their own

[Andru]

I think there are a lot of teams (and coaches) out there who are starting to figure what is and what isn't OK and how to take advantage of the new rules. The Sens got off to a fast start and the brass and players are to be commended for getting the proverbial leg-up on the competition.
What I've seen in the last few weeks leads me to believe that league-wide the disparities are starting to diminish. The scores in the last month have also gone down (it appears) and there haven't been nearly as many one-sided blowouts lately. It's all anecdotal but I think the league is starting to settle and get more competitive again one through thirty.
That western road trip is always brutal but it was impressive to watch Calgary take away Ottawa's transition and rush attacks and create traffic at the blue lines. The Sens are not nearly as effective scoring from cycling and working down low as they are on the rush. Force them deep and they're not nearly as dangerous.

There's another factor, injuries. Ottawa's missing their best passing Defensman and one of their solid scorers.

I think quite honestly guys are getting in shape now and they're learning to play together. I don't buy the system thing. I just think Ottawa has faced two teams in the west with as much speed as them and they were caught off guard. When you go 11-1 and you've pretty much dominated eveyone in your division you can become a little complacent. It's a wake up call. We'll see how they respond.

[Andru]

Read my posts - didn't blame the refs. The Sens got outplayed. I didn't think the reffing was good, but there were bad calls each way. When the sens did get powerplays, they couldn't get a shot anyway. It would have been a better game had there been fewer penalties, but the Sens lost all on their own

Haha don't get all defensive. it's kind of true. When the sens win there's always talk of poor officiating when they lose it's rampent. Sure the complaint is launched with a sound legal disclaimer attached but really the comment is out there now. If it wasn't a factor why mention it at all just dimiss it outright.

I think the refs are doing a fantastic job I have yet to see a game this year ( and with centre ice I've seen a few ) where the better team didn't win because of the refs. the teams that skate hard and win races get the calls. That's been consistent.

I shouldn't have included your post it was more a general comment.

[jonf]

fair enough, there is often a lot of whining about calls, myself included on occasion. I agree about Redden. I notice during the game that they never really had the crisp breakout pass to start the rush off. Without Redden there to make that pass, it really stalls their offense, because they do rely so much on the rush. I stayed quite about it during the game, because I personally think Redden is a very overrated defenceman - didn't want to give my buddies the wrong idea. That being said, as much as I think he's overrated, he is crucial to the ottawa offence.

[davevandyk]

This is what i have noticed over the last 5-10 games. The Sens are a very explosive team. When they get running and gunning its hard to beat them. However, when a team slows them down in the first, it seems like they lose a lot. I agree with the above post that their division opponents are not a great test for them, but great for their record!


I really think they gotta pick up a second line centre, like the rumours have said. Fisher is good, but he's more of a third line checking centre. I think they need a good, fast energy guy that can light the lamp, I mean right now Spezza-Heatley-Alfie have a combined 125 points, the second line of Fisher-Neil-Schaeffer have a combined 53 points!!!

Other than the top 3 players, Ottawa's forwards have totalled 114 points, including the call-ups like Eaves and Bochenski. This is not gonna win a championships, as we saw in the last two games, teams shut down the #1 unit, and Sens won't score more than a couple

I know they are missing Havlat and Redden, but they need to get some other guys going to compete with the better teams like Van and Calgary

[jonf]

anyone know how ottawa is doing for cap room? seems rather important if they do decide to try to pick up another forward

[g8r]

Had the pleasure of being at the Flames game on Saturday night and must say that the Flames deserved that win. Has anyone else ever been to the SaddleDome? I was up in the 300 section, and you cant see across to the other side, you can barely see the top of the 100's across the way. This arena loses some spark with the way you are hidden up in the rafters. Corely Centre is designed much better with the Fans in mind.
Both teams played well, and it was nice to watch an exciting 1 goal game through to OT. Of course, I much prefer a 4 goal cushion going in to the 3rd, but it can't happen every game. Too bad they lost as walking out of the SaddleDome with my Sens jersey on was a bit painful.
Here's hoping that the GMs take another look at their scheduling and at the very least let all Canadian teams have a home and home every year.

[Andru]

Had the pleasure of being at the Flames game on Saturday night and must say that the Flames deserved that win. Has anyone else ever been to the SaddleDome? I was up in the 300 section, and you cant see across to the other side, you can barely see the top of the 100's across the way. This arena loses some spark with the way you are hidden up in the rafters. Corely Centre is designed much better with the Fans in mind.
Both teams played well, and it was nice to watch an exciting 1 goal game through to OT. Of course, I much prefer a 4 goal cushion going in to the 3rd, but it can't happen every game. Too bad they lost as walking out of the SaddleDome with my Sens jersey on was a bit painful.
Here's hoping that the GMs take another look at their scheduling and at the very least let all Canadian teams have a home and home every year.

They were built in two different decades.

[Hank Hill]

anyone know how ottawa is doing for cap room? seems rather important if they do decide to try to pick up another forward

I can't confirm is this is totally accurate, but I heard that in the case of a long term injury, like Havlats, his salary will not count against the cap, and the Sens can bring someone in in the interim, but they must get below the cap when Havlat returns. Anyone else hear this?

On another note, I think it was a good 2 points gained in the Van/Cal games. Sens didn't play particularly well against 2 of the top home teams and came away with 2 points out of 4. Spezza will sit out tonights game (and perhaps more) as he is nursing a sore hip flexor. I felt that while not playing that well the Sens could have maybe held on to beat Calgary, but they were visably tired in the third period. Anyway, these are just the types of test that they need to get under their belts to work out the kinks come spring. With Col, Dal then Tor in the next few days, it's going to be a real test of how this team will fare in the playoffs.

[Andru]

I can't confirm is this is totally accurate, but I heard that in the case of a long term injury, like Havlats, his salary will not count against the cap, and the Sens can bring someone in in the interim, but they must get below the cap when Havlat returns. Anyone else hear this?

On another note, I think it was a good 2 points gained in the Van/Cal games. Sens didn't play particularly well against 2 of the top home teams and came away with 2 points out of 4. Spezza will sit out tonights game (and perhaps more) as he is nursing a sore hip flexor. I felt that while not playing that well the Sens could have maybe held on to beat Calgary, but they were visably tired in the third period. Anyway, these are just the types of test that they need to get under their belts to work out the kinks come spring. With Col, Dal then Tor in the next few days, it's going to be a real test of how this team will fare in the playoffs.

I agree with everythign but I wouldn't include Toronto in that mix. Toronto looks avg at best.

[Hank Hill]

I agree with everythign but I wouldn't include Toronto in that mix. Toronto looks avg at best.

Haha, you are just trying to talk Toronto down. Leaf vs Sens is a decent rivalry and in these types of games, current form goes right out of the window. After the 8-0 at the ACC, Tor are going to want to redress the balance somewhat. I am going to the game, hopefully (from my point of view) it will be an exciting one with a hard-fought Sens victory.