sens-kings

[duffer69]

Kinda hard to get the message through to a Leafs fan. 'nuf said.

[Hank Hill]

Chara's got about three feet on Tie Domi, but nobody complains if the two of them duke it out. Why? Because Domi is a fighter. It's not about whether or not you're bigger than the other guy, its a matter of them being a fighter or not. Any time a fighter takes on a non-fighter, there are going to be repercussions. Especially if they do so after refusing to take on another fighter (and mouthing off to the whole league about those damn guys with visors who fly around hitting everyone and never back it up). Avery refused to take his medecine, so, unfortunately for him, Gleason suffered on account of it. Chara was sending a much needed message that nobody is going to run Hasek and not have to pay the price.

Excellent post!

[Andru]

Kinda hard to get the message through to a Leafs fan. 'nuf said.

Post number 14 and still ....................... no sign of intelligence.

[Andru]

Chara's got about three feet on Tie Domi, but nobody complains if the two of them duke it out. Why? Because Domi is a fighter. It's not about whether or not you're bigger than the other guy, its a matter of them being a fighter or not. Any time a fighter takes on a non-fighter, there are going to be repercussions. Especially if they do so after refusing to take on another fighter (and mouthing off to the whole league about those damn guys with visors who fly around hitting everyone and never back it up). Avery refused to take his medecine, so, unfortunately for him, Gleason suffered on account of it. Chara was sending a much needed message that nobody is going to run Hasek and not have to pay the price.

Interesting point. I'm not sure why you guys think I have some kind of stake in this, I don't. Avery is a * eveyone knows this. I was questioning the thought process of Z going out and thumping a guy almost half his size and taking a 1 game suspension. You guys think it's ok, so be it. We have different opinions on this.

We'll see how fun it is and how smart it is when chara has to walk on egg shells because a mistake could cost him 2 games in the playoffs that probably would have been none. Like I said and it keeps getting ignored. We won't know the price until the season is over.

[Andru]

Again, you neglect to mention this was Kelly's FIRST NHL fight.
So what you are saying is Kelly was not outmatched by Cowan? Give me a break , it was clear right from the get go that Kelly didn't have a prayer in that tilt and everyone including Kelly new it. Kelly is not a fighter and Cowan is.

You then suggest they send Phillips or Varada to punish someone? Why? Does it not make more sense to send out your biggest guy if you want someone to take a beating?

I'm not saying Kelly is going to pummel Cowan. But at the size differential kelly can tie him up and force a draw. let's face it. Kelly's mistake was he tried to fight him. punch for punch.

No one is tying up Z, if Z wants to punch you he's going to do it unless you duck and hide.

[Hank Hill]

I was questioning the thought process of Z going out and thumping a guy almost half his size and taking a 1 game suspension

Hardly half his size, but as I said earlier, the biggest guy left on the ice. As far as I am concerned, I prefer Chara sticking up for his team mates and getting a suspension, than the Sens letting it go and sending out the message that if you keep chipping at our players and goalie, we will eventually back down.

As for Chara walking (skating?) on egg shells, I don't suppose he is too bothered and I don't expect him to fight much more this season, what happened on Friday is pretty rare in the "new" NHL.

[Hank Hill]

Post number 14 and still ....................... no sign of intelligence.

[Andru]

Hardly half his size, but as I said earlier, the biggest guy left on the ice. As far as I am concerned, I prefer Chara sticking up for his team mates and getting a suspension, than the Sens letting it go and sending out the message that if you keep chipping at our players and goalie, we will eventually back down.

As for Chara walking (skating?) on egg shells, I don't suppose he is too bothered and I don't expect him to fight much more this season, what happened on Friday is pretty rare in the "new" NHL.

True.

[Shivas Irons]

Sens fans love it because they've been the whipping boys for so long. It's nice to have some team sand paper. I get that.

I think this is the crux of the whole thing as well - Ottawa has a long history of being a team of powderpuffs. This game gave them ample opportunity to send a message not so much to the Kings, who they hardly ever play, but to the NHL in general.
As fans, many of us are happy to see that reaction from the team but I don't think anyone wants to see game after game like that.

[el tigre]

I didn't even read a word after this line. Debate seens to be degrading. I'm out.

Still rattling on, I see. Promises, promises...

[davevandyk]

I think this is the crux of the whole thing as well - Ottawa has a long history of being a team of powderpuffs. This game gave them ample opportunity to send a message not so much to the Kings, who they hardly ever play, but to the NHL in general.
As fans, many of us are happy to see that reaction from the team but I don't think anyone wants to see game after game like that.

I am in complete agreement. I think the Sens needed to send the message to the Leafs, Flyers and anyone else they might meet in the playoffs that they cannot be bullied. They are showing that they not only have the talent to go deep in the playoffs, but that they are now a team BUILT for the playoffs. I don't want to say that they have every piece they need, but you guys tell me what they don't have?

[jonf]

We'll see how fun it is and how smart it is when chara has to walk on egg shells because a mistake could cost him 2 games in the playoffs that probably would have been none. Like I said and it keeps getting ignored. We won't know the price until the season is over.

I do think it will be interesting to see how the NHL handles repeat offenders on this rule. I know that with most other suspensions, repeat offences bring greater punishment (Havlat, for example). Not sure if that will happen with this rule though. It seems to me, at least, that it may just stay a flat rate. They may add on games if the offence is particularly bad, but I don't think Chara is going to have to be any more careful than he would normally. Just my take on it...it will be interesting to see.

[el tigre]

I do think it will be interesting to see how the NHL handles repeat offenders on this rule. I know that with most other suspensions, repeat offences bring greater punishment (Havlat, for example). Not sure if that will happen with this rule though. It seems to me, at least, that it may just stay a flat rate. They may add on games if the offence is particularly bad, but I don't think Chara is going to have to be any more careful than he would normally. Just my take on it...it will be interesting to see.

I believe you are correct. The reason is because the suspension is automatically prescribed by the rules - once an Instigator penalty is called in the last 5 minutes then there is really no discretion involved. It almost becomes just like another penalty then.

That puts it in a different category than a suspension like Havlat's where a disciplinary committee/person had to make a judgement call on a particular incident. That pretty well mandates that if a similar incident occurs and you have to make another judgement call, the punishment must be greater.

That's not to say that if a player repeatedly gets Instigator penalties, he'll continue to get one-game suspensions forever. There will come a time when enough is enough. Don't worry - Chara will never get to that point. He is the #3 fighter on the Sens depth chart.

[davevandyk]

I don't understand, if this rule has no discretion then how did Doan not get a 1-game suspension and Gretzky not get fined??

[sensfan63]

It is obvious from these comments that you did not actually see any of incidents involved and are simply patching together a very biased version of the facts based on seeing a few highlight reels. Perhaps you should restrict your comments to games that you actually watched:

1) The Fisher/Avery fight happened in the first few minutes of the game as a direct result of Fisher's hip check. It was long before Avery starting running the goalie or causing any trouble - and it was Avery that took exception and wanted to fight, not Fisher. If it had ended there everyone on the Sens would have been happy.

2) Avery didn't just run Hasek - he punched him in the head. It should come as no surprise to anyone with any hockey knowledge that teams take exception to someone trying to injure their goaltender. Goalies are even more off-limits than your star goal scorer. Avery knows that too - in fact he was counting on it.

Comparing this to the Bertuzzi/Moore incident is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. It was Avery that continued to escalate the situation - not the Senators. Avery's whole purpose was to get the team to come after him. Guess what, it worked - but the Kings lost anyway.

So if it was Avery's purpose to get the Sens to come after him (which it was, and which they did), why is everyone so pissed at him? It's his M.O., everyone knows it, so calm down! We're back to real hockey now after years of B O R I N G, and now it seems like the real rough stuff is back in vogue too.

By the way, el tigre, insulting Andru's hockey knowledge is not cool...especially when it's your tendency to try to compare broomball with hockey...

[el tigre]

I don't understand, if this rule has no discretion then how did Doan not get a 1-game suspension and Gretzky not get fined??

You are guilty until proven innocent. I did not see the Doan incident and I have no idea why his suspension was not enforced.

[el tigre]

So if it was Avery's purpose to get the Sens to come after him (which it was, and which they did), why is everyone so pissed at him? It's his M.O., everyone knows it, so calm down!

Because the game is played by human beings, not machines. Emotion plays a big part in the game. This game against the Kings is one of the best things that could have happened to the Sens this year. They are now confident that they can overcome ANY kind of game the other team tries to throw at them. Its a long season, but if they can sustain that confidence and attitude, they will go a long way in the playoffs.

By the way, el tigre, insulting Andru's hockey knowledge is not cool...especially when it's your tendency to try to compare broomball with hockey...

I didn't insult Andru's hockey knowledge per se, but if he actually thinks that anyone except an armchair hockey analyst actually consults the height/weight stats of the players to make sure that everyone on the ice is evenly matched...

[davevandyk]

You are guilty until proven innocent. I did not see the Doan incident and I have no idea why his suspension was not enforced.

the point is you didn't have to see the Doan incident, you just had to see who was the bench boss. Unfortunately this is how the NHL works, "friends look out for friends".

[sensfan63]

Because the game is played by human beings, not machines. Emotion plays a big part in the game. This game against the Kings is one of the best things that could have happened to the Sens this year. They are now confident that they can overcome ANY kind of game the other team tries to throw at them. Its a long season, but if they can sustain that confidence and attitude, they will go a long way in the playoffs.

I didn't insult Andru's hockey knowledge per se, but if he actually thinks that anyone except an armchair hockey analyst actually consults the height/weight stats of the players to make sure that everyone on the ice is evenly matched...

A misunderstanding...I was wondering why Sens FANS (not players) were upset at Avery while concurrently understanding what Avery's purpose was. We all know what he was doing and what he was trying to accomplish. I personally think he did us a favor...never a bad thing to bring Sens players to each other's defense.

Clearly I know why Sens players were bent out of shape...that they stuck up for each other - or rather, were ALLOWED to stick up for each other - was a welcome change from years past.

[Hank Hill]

I don't want to say that they have every piece they need, but you guys tell me what they don't have?

I know it doesn't happen often, but my main concern about this team is an inability to come back from 2+ goals down. Once they get down (it is rare at the moment) they tend to panic a little and end up playing like they did against the Leafs in those 0-2, 0-1 games last time out. Just a minor point there, but I think it is crucial to be able to rally back after being down in the playoffs.

[Colby]

I don't want to say that they have every piece they need, but you guys tell me what they don't have?

I haven't compared the stats to last time they played, and they look like they are doing better at faceoffs, they still need to improve in that aspect. One of their few weaknesses. In fact this year, Ottawa has no center in the top 50 in faceoff %. Spezza is 53 at 52.8% followed by Fisher at 103 and 49.5%. Ottawa has only one center that wins faceoffs over 50% of the time and barely over that.

[jeffc]

I haven't compared the stats to last time they played, and they look like they are doing better at faceoffs, they still need to improve in that aspect. One of their few weaknesses. In fact this year, Ottawa has no center in the top 50 in faceoff %. Spezza is 53 at 52.8% followed by Fisher at 103 and 49.5%. Ottawa has only one center that wins faceoffs over 50% of the time and barely over that.

yes that has been a problem for a long time with this club. IMHO probably their only weakness right now.