Leafs/sens

[Golfbum]

LEAFS Fans should be really really quiet after tonights BLOWOUT! I am not a Sens fan but I loved that game!

[Andru]

Holy crap is it spring already? Golf season is just starting again the NHL playoffs are in full force. Sweet. Oh this thread was started in October. Hmm. This reminds me of an old saying. I'll start it for you. He who laughs last.......................

Sens came out to play and the leafs were skating zombies it happens in sports. Glad you enjoyed it. I'll be the first to admit it. The leafs needed a good azz whooping to get them playing better. They haven't played a solid game since the win over Montreal. Gosh they need Sundin Back. He's more of a leader than he gets credit for.

[dbleber]

That game was brutal and I loved every minute of it! If Leaf fans ever needed proof that their beloved organization is being run by a bunch of morons, the last night sealed the deal. They are soooooooooooo slow, they have no more grit because guys like Tie Domi would be working at Wal Mart if it wasn't for Leaf fans and they must be the worst deal makers in the league. If you have an old guy who has been hurt, doesn't know if he wil make the full season and probably retire at the end of the season, then call Pat because that's just the palyer he's looking for. It really did look like to teams from two different leagues, the Sens speed and young talent pool just blew them away. Any Heatley doubters now???

[Golfbum]

That game was brutal and I loved every minute of it! If Leaf fans ever needed proof that their beloved organization is being run by a bunch of morons, the last night sealed the deal. They are soooooooooooo slow, they have no more grit because guys like Tie Domi would be working at Wal Mart if it wasn't for Leaf fans and they must be the worst deal makers in the league. If you have an old guy who has been hurt, doesn't know if he wil make the full season and probably retire at the end of the season, then call Pat because that's just the palyer he's looking for. It really did look like to teams from two different leagues, the Sens speed and young talent pool just blew them away. Any Heatley doubters now???

Uhhhhhh Wade "I'm A Pylon" Belak comes to mind when you talk about players who should not be on the ice. That guy is a friggin waste of money when it comes to salary cap He'll be -50 by the end of the season at the rate he is going
JR C players could skate around him and get a shot on net!

[Chieflongtee]

I would not trade nozes with Tie this morning.

[jeffc]

Heatley for Hossa? Any questions about that trade after last night? I think any doubt has now been cast aside.

[Andru]

That game was brutal and I loved every minute of it! If Leaf fans ever needed proof that their beloved organization is being run by a bunch of morons, the last night sealed the deal. They are soooooooooooo slow, they have no more grit because guys like Tie Domi would be working at Wal Mart if it wasn't for Leaf fans and they must be the worst deal makers in the league. If you have an old guy who has been hurt, doesn't know if he wil make the full season and probably retire at the end of the season, then call Pat because that's just the palyer he's looking for. It really did look like to teams from two different leagues, the Sens speed and young talent pool just blew them away. Any Heatley doubters now???

Say waht you want about Tie Domi he has 5 points in 11 games. that would put him 8th on the senators scoring list.

No kidding they're slow. I said it at the beginning of the season. However, it's a long season. The Leafs had to work around the new salary cap That's how you end up with Allison, Lindros who's been playing well.

Laugh all you want now. In a year the leafs will pick up almost 20 million in Cap space and the younger guys will be ready to step in. there's 3 in the AHL that are ready. It's a fat headed quinn keeping the slow guys in place.

The Senators. hmmm. How many top 3 picks have they had in the past 10 years? Let's go through the line up.

Wade Redden 2nd overall they actually took Bryan Berard who's career they almost ended as well he was 1st.

Chris Philips 1st overall
Jason Spezza 2nd overall
Danny Heatley 2nd overall,
Zdeno Chara Acquired with their first pick( Alexei Yashin who was )

Only other team with more picks is Atlanta with 4. That makes thing much easier when building a team. Let's see how the next 10 years go now that they're world beaters. and they're picking 26th every year.

I'll give you Alfie he's turned into a gem.

The number of overall picks is attributed to how awful they were. Unless they decide to trade away some of it's core. There's no top ten pick in the future for the Sens. Let's see how great they are in 10 years when this run is over.

Nudge nudge. Jason Spezza, Wade Redden, Zdeno Chara will all be getting a big pay raise next year. Welcome to the world of the salary cap.

We'll talk again in spring.................

[dbleber]

What about Daigle, he was a great pick too!

[Andru]

HA! you've got a great sens of humour man.

[davevandyk]

I saw the game last nite, but couldn't understand something.

Why would the Sens agree to play against the Baby Leafs (Marlies)?? Just doesnt' make sense to me???

EDIT: Sorry my buddy just told me that it was the NHL leafs.........WOW!!

I just want to save the leaf fans from replying, yes it is the regular season, GOOD POINT , still must be embarrassing?? I wouldn't know!

[jonf]

The Senators. hmmm. How many top 3 picks have they had in the past 10 years? Let's go through the line up.

Wade Redden 2nd overall they actually took Bryan Berard who's career they almost ended as well he was 1st.

Chris Philips 1st overall
Jason Spezza 2nd overall
Danny Heatley 2nd overall,
Zdeno Chara Acquired with their first pick( Alexei Yashin who was )

Interesting that Spezza, Heatley and Chara were all aquired through trades. Might lead some people to think that the Sens management makes intelligent moves. Haven't seen the Leafs make any trades that landed them 2nd overall pick, the biggest D-man in the league (and a pretty good one at that), AND a quality, speedy, third line penalty killer - all for one whiny, overpaid shmuck. Oh, look at Heatley, what another great trade by the Sens. They sure are good at picking up YOUNG, PROMISING players. Not to mention their continuing ability to pick up solid players in the last few picks of the round (we've been in that position for about 5 years now):

Bochenski: 223 overall in 2001
Havlat: 26 overall in 1999
Fisher: 44 overall in 1998
Alfie: 133 overall in 1994
Volchenkov: 21 overall in 2000

Wow, look at all those picks...sure is a good thing that the Sens know how to pick out young talent even when they don't have the picks. All of these players contribute on a nightly basis.

So, it seems that you have proven exactly what everyone else was saying: The leafs don't know how to draft, OR to trade, but the sens do both, and do so VERY well. Thanks for coming out.

[Andru]

Interesting that Spezza, Heatley and Chara were all aquired through trades. Might lead some people to think that the Sens management makes intelligent moves. Haven't seen the Leafs make any trades that landed them 2nd overall pick, the biggest D-man in the league (and a pretty good one at that), AND a quality, speedy, third line penalty killer - all for one whiny, overpaid shmuck. Oh, look at Heatley, what another great trade by the Sens. They sure are good at picking up YOUNG, PROMISING players.

Not to mention their continuing ability to pick up solid players in the last few picks of the round (we've been in that position for about 5 years now):

This is just complete Kaka.

Here are the facts. the last 5 years.

2005 9
2004 23
2003 29
2002 16
2001 2

Ottawa's core is built on the picks they made 6-8 years ago. Philips, Redden, Yashin etc etc. Which means in 4-6 years from now the picks they've made recently and the ones in the future in the 29 positon are the assets they'll have. You think Eaves is going to get you a defenseman like Chara and a 2nd overall? Ha!

Is Bochenski going to get you a 2nd overall pick in 5 years?
How about Havlat? hehe.

Don't forget guys can leave at age 25 NOW. for free agency. They may not get anything for them.

Bochenski is playing with Heatly and Spezza. And he's 10 games into his career. Funny that he's benched for alfie in the 3rd period of games. Too early to tell. What happnes if Bochnski folds in the playoffs is he still some kind of star?

Volchenkov another 1st round pick.

Heatly was traded for Hossa. He's still a great player. and a high draft choice. FYI.

Havlat 1st round pick. Big deal.

Fisher is a fast skating plumber. YOu think he's goign first round now that you know what he can do.

I already gave you Alfie as a gem if you actually read my post.

The last time the leafs had a top 5 pick was 1985!!! 20 years ago. The Leafs have been bad put please spare me the almighty nonsense.

Who exactly should they have traded for the 2nd overall pick in the draft? PPl like Jon have totally forgotten these same leafs have soundly whooped his beloved sens 3 years ion the playoffs. I'd say the leafs didi a great job building a team. Without 1st and 2nd round draft picks. They mortgaged the future yes. and they're paying for it now but that's the price you pay.

I'm not saying the sens are not a great organization but I'm tired of people trying to convince me that they've (senators ) have turned water into wine here. That's why I said let's see how they do in 10 years when the best pick they get is 28 7 years in a row.

[davevandyk]

I don't understand why all leaf fans have to continuously mention the fact that the leafs beat the Sens in the playoffs, WOW!!! Its a circle, the Sens beat the Flyers, then lose to the leafs. Or the Flyers beat the leafs, Sens beat the Flyers and lose to Devils.

What's your point, if you are trying to make a valid point that Toronto can only beat Ottawa in the playoffs then congrats. Bottom line is Ottawa made it to the Conference final and to my knowledge toronto hasnt' I don't see how it matters who beat who to get there.

Do you think the Lightning are talking about the team that they can't beat in the playoffs or the teams that they did beat. It don't matter what road you take to win the cup, neither has won it since the rivalry began, and by all estimations the Sens have a much better chance in the next few years of winning as the leafs have a chance to make the playoffs!!!

[jonf]

The thing is, EVERYONE gets a first round pick. The sens aren't unique in having the opportunity to pick in the first round. In fact, they have been worse of than most teams in recent years, due to their performance during the season. The sens recent picks have not been all that high, with the exception of Spezza, who they traded for. The leafs end up with picks just as high as the Sens, if not higher, and manage to throw most of them away. Whenever they have a good prospect, McCauley, for example, they trade them away in a mindless attempt to win a cup by picking up yet another aging veteran. Yes, experience wins cups, but for years they have been trading away their best prospect with the hopes that the addition of one veteran will secure that long elusive cup. I know its early in the season, and anything can happen, but this year its finally coming back to bite them in the ass.

[Andru]

I don't understand why all leaf fans have to continuously mention the fact that the leafs beat the Sens in the playoffs, WOW!!! Its a circle, the Sens beat the Flyers, then lose to the leafs. Or the Flyers beat the leafs, Sens beat the Flyers and lose to Devils.

What's your point, if you are trying to make a valid point that Toronto can only beat Ottawa in the playoffs then congrats. Bottom line is Ottawa made it to the Conference final and to my knowledge toronto hasnt' I don't see how it matters who beat who to get there.

Do you think the Lightning are talking about the team that they can't beat in the playoffs or the teams that they did beat. It don't matter what road you take to win the cup, neither has won it since the rivalry began, and by all estimations the Sens have a much better chance in the next few years of winning as the leafs have a chance to make the playoffs!!!

Point is Jon posted a message talking about how crappy the leafs organization is. I was just pointing out that fact that this 'crappy organization' and the 'crappy moves' they made to build a team has beaten the team he claims to be gods creation.

I'm fully aware of the Leafs inablitiy to win the Stanley Cup. I'm a Hockey Fan first and formost. I can call a spade a spade. No rose coloured glasses here. The Sens have benefitted from some very nice draft picks. Some earned with poor finishes some stolen from other teams( Yashin for Spezza ).

It's sports. hey I didn't start this thread.

[Andru]

Bottom line is Ottawa made it to the Conference final and to my knowledge toronto hasnt' I don't see how it matters who beat who to get there.

By posting this you've confirmed that your knowledge is limited. The Leafs have made it to the conferance final twice in recent memory. 1999 losing to Bufaalo and 2002 losing to Carolina.

[jeffc]

Sure the Sens have had a lot of high picks, but what they haven't done is trade away their first round picks and young talent for a lot of average trades, usually older guys, past their prime who play for a couple of seasons in a Blue Shirt and then move on. The Leafs answer in the past has been to throw money at the problem, with a short term fix rather than thinking about the long term. Think Nolan, Leetch, Niewendyk, Roberts, Mogilny, etc. etc. where are they now? Yes the Leafs will be able to free up some cap space next year, but they were poorly managed for a long time. The problem now, is Belfour is all but done his career and has been the main reason for their success the past 5 years. Put an average goalie in the net and it would have been a different story.

[Hank Hill]

LEAFS Fans should be really really quiet after tonights BLOWOUT! I am not a Sens fan but I loved that game!

Loved all the goals...8!!

Loved seeing McGratton beat the crap out of Domi.

Loved seeing Tucker lying on the ice like a big girl after a weak hit by the A-train.

Loved seeing Pat Quinn's face during the game or after a Sens goal.

Loved seeing Don Cherry at a loss for words (just what was he babbling about at the end?).

So the Leafs have had our number in the playoffs...big deal it's in the past, let's enjoy this for now.

GO SENS GO!!!

[Hank Hill]

By posting this you've confirmed that your knowledge is limited. The Leafs have made it to the conferance final twice in recent memory. 1999 losing to Bufaalo and 2002 losing to Carolina.

That loss to Carolina was brutal, you have to admit it. They should have made it to the Stanley Cup that year (and it would have been an exciting matchup against the Wings too). Maybe if they didn't see beating the Senators as the "be all and end all" of their season they could actually conserve some energy and win all 4 series needed to win the cup (or at least get to the final).

[Andru]

Sure the Sens have had a lot of high picks, but what they haven't done is trade away their first round picks and young talent for a lot of average trades, usually older guys, past their prime who play for a couple of seasons in a Blue Shirt and then move on. The Leafs answer in the past has been to throw money at the problem, with a short term fix rather than thinking about the long term. Think Nolan, Leetch, Niewendyk, Roberts, Mogilny, etc. etc. where are they now? Yes the Leafs will be able to free up some cap space next year, but they were poorly managed for a long time. The problem now, is Belfour is all but done his career and has been the main reason for their success the past 5 years. Put an average goalie in the net and it would have been a different story.

They mortgaged the future yes. and they're paying for it now but that's the price you pay.

Believe me. I know this painful truth. The fact is they were going for it plain and simple. They wanted to win. They had chances. Some bad luck too with injuries late in the season. Remember the first year they signed Roberts. Sundin goes down with an ankle injury. Gary Roberts carried the team on his back that year. A little help who knows.

I realize if ands buts don't win championships. The truth is the Leafs have been a good team for a long time now. It's been 7 years since they missed the playoffs. 2 conf finals apprearances, They're in line for a face lift. It's started this year. Things are changing.

I'm sure of this Fergerson and Quinn are not on the same page. Paul Maurice is waiting in the wings...... or the marlies. That's another thing that's changed moving the AHL farm team to Toronto. Since they can't invest the money in player contracts they've set up a system to develop players closer to home. Smart move.

Leaf Nation is going to take some lumps but it's necessary in the new NHL. Chances are the Sens are going to win a cup before the leafs do. Tell you the truth I couldn't give a crap. Whether it happens now or 10 years from now. Doesn't matter. The sens are just another team in the NHL the leafs have to beat to win. There's no special grudge or hate from me.

I can tell you this, the hate nonsense started HERE in Ottawa. I lived in Toronto for 29 years and the Sens were the team I'd cheer for when the leafs weren't playing well. 1) they were canadian and 2) they were an underdog. Then I moved here and realized Ottawa in general has a thing for Toronto. Not sure what it is exactly, but it's pathetic.

[Andru]

That loss to Carolina was brutal, you have to admit it. They should have made it to the Stanley Cup that year (and it would have been an exciting matchup against the Wings too). Maybe if they didn't see beating the Senators as the "be all and end all" of their season they could actually conserve some energy and win all 4 series needed to win the cup (or at least get to the final).

That is a complete illusion. Beating the sens isn't the "be all and end all" of Toronto sports fans. I lived in Toronto. They're oblivous to the nonsense happening in Ottawa. Remember last time they played hockey and the "dandy Man' went all crazy on Tie Domi calling him a wife beater etc.

They had stories and columns in Toronto trying to explain why the people in Ottawa hate Toronto and the Maple Leafs so much. It was a one way street man. It's turnign into a two way street. But the bitterness started right here.

[Andru]

That loss to Carolina was brutal, you have to admit it. They should have made it to the Stanley Cup that year (and it would have been an exciting matchup against the Wings too). Maybe if they didn't see beating the Senators as the "be all and end all" of their season they could actually conserve some energy and win all 4 series needed to win the cup (or at least get to the final).

I know you'e a huge sens fan and that's cool but you shoudl stick to sens history.

That's the year Sundin was out with a fractured Wrist. and mogilny was out leading up the playoffs with injuries. They had to sign Jyrki Lumme? Remember they had no one on D. Should they have beat the Canes? after a 7 game series with the Islanders and the Sens?

It was Gary Roberts and a patched Maple Leaf team that made it to the conf finals against a pretty good Carolina team. Francis, O'Neill, Brind A.Mour, etc.

[davevandyk]

I can image the hatefullness started in Ottawa. They have had a better team for the last couple of years and all you hear is the fact that Toronto is this and that because they have won 20+ stanley cups in the distant past. Even after the 8-0 loss, all i heard on the Fan 590 was why the leafs lost, they gave up after 3-0, they were playing with injuries. At no point did they mention that the Sens flat out, outplayed them, that they were faster, and more aggressive. Its classic and the Sens seem to be fed up with the little respect they have been given in Ontario.

In my opinion, unless you win the Cup, it doesn't matter how deep you go, bottom line is Ottawa is consistently better than Toronto in a 82 game schedule, and neither has won the cup so who really cares which team won a best of 7?? Neither won the cup so its irrelevant.

[jeffc]

hmmm...seems to me there is no love lost for Daniel Alfredsson in TO. Hossa, too, remember he was the guy that almost ended Berard's career. I have a lot of friends who are Leafs fans I think it's more of a 2 way street than you think. I'll admit Ottawa hates TO more than TO hates Ottawa, but it's closer than you think.

[Hank Hill]

They had stories and columns in Toronto trying to explain why the people in Ottawa hate Toronto and the Maple Leafs so much. It was a one way street man. It's turnign into a two way street. But the bitterness started right here.

The bitterness stems from the volume of Leaf fans that live in Ottawa (Because Ottawa didn't have a team for so long, I know). In the work places around the region the constant "friendly" ribbing between the rival fans can get a bit more heated during the playoffs etc. I admit that I am bitter about the Sens losing to the Leafs in the playoffs, but I don't hate Toronto, I just want Ottawa to beat them (esp in the playoffs). It's nobodies fault, but it does make the Leaf-Sens games that much more interesting.

[Hank Hill]

That's the year Sundin was out with a fractured Wrist. and mogilny was out leading up the playoffs with injuries. They had to sign Jyrki Lumme? Remember they had no one on D. Should they have beat the Canes? after a 7 game series with the Islanders and the Sens?

It was Gary Roberts and a patched Maple Leaf team that made it to the conf finals against a pretty good Carolina team. Francis, O'Neill, Brind A.Mour, etc.

I was aware of those points but didn't Sundin return for the part of the playoffs? Also Mogilny just started to get hot at the end of the Sens/Leafs series did he not?

I still think, even with the injuries Leafs had a great chance of a place in the Stanley cup final, and wasted it.

[jvincent]

Here's my take on why so many people love to hate the Leafs. This is from a long time Habs fan, an now ex-Sens season ticket holder (strike protest) who went to university in southern ontario.

The CBC is the home of the Leafs. No matter how crappy or good they were for the last 25 years, they are 99.999999% the national telecast. It didn't matter that over that period Montreal, Ottawa, etc. have all had much better teams for significant periods of time. We got to see Bob and Harry flog the Leafs as the be all and end all of hockey.

For pretty much the entire Harold Ballard era, when they were total and a joke of an organization, if I had to listen to one more "Just wait until Wendel is back and we'll start the cup run" they were still the darlings of the CBC.

The rest of Canada is pretty much tired of them. With the two games on Saturday and extra satellite coverage in the last few years it's not as bad, but for a long time it was a royal pain to suffer from the Toronto is the center of the universe syndrome at the CBC.

Yes, they have had some good teams since Harold kicked it, but people are still tired from the old days.

[Pinshark]

speaking of Ottawa hating TO. Why did the Team 1200....an Ottawa station have t-shirts for sale in Ottawa during the playoffs that were blue and white and read Leafs Suck instead of black and red or gold or whatever Sens colours you want that read Sens Rule? You think the players can read what those say if the people are not in the first few rows...NO all they see is more blue and white shirts in their House as if there weren't enough TO fans in the building already.

[Hank Hill]

speaking of Ottawa hating TO. Why did the Team 1200....an Ottawa station have t-shirts for sale in Ottawa during the playoffs that were blue and white and read Leafs Suck instead of black and red or gold or whatever Sens colours you want that read Sens Rule? You think the players can read what those say if the people are not in the first few rows...NO all they see is more blue and white shirts in their House as if there weren't enough TO fans in the building already.

It did confuse me that they were blue and white. I was going to buy one to annoy a colleague but couldn't bring myself to wear blue and white.

[davevandyk]

I assume that the Toronto players are not dull. If they see shirts in the first few rows that are blue and white and say "leafs suck" and they see others wearing similar shirts but can't read the writing, i think they know what they say.

Saying that, i didn't wear one, i instead chose to wear a Sens jersey that was Red and black