Lofts and Distance-splain please

[clankoffdatee]

I recently traded in my set of DCI blacks(10 years +) for a set of Taylormade RAC LT's.Both are cavity back cast clubs with DG s300 shafts. The new set have significantly less loft ie. DCI PW is 48 degrees and RAC's PW is 46 degrees. Should I not see a difference in trajectory and distance?

[Big Johnny69]

Your clubs will probably have a little flatter trajectory with a gain in distance with every club.

[dbleber]

They did this to make us the golfer feel good. Since there is such a marketing hype on distance the manufacturers got smart and decided to make us all think we hit the ball farther with the new technology. hence the stronger lofts, now instead of a 7 iron you hit an 8 and that makes you feel warm and fuzzy. From a marketing point of view it's pretty smart!

[THUNDAH]

And that's why they will sell more hybrids instead of 2, 3 and 4 irons and you probably will end up with four wedges

[BC MIST]

They did this to make us the golfer feel good. Since there is such a marketing hype on distance the manufacturers got smart and decided to make us all think we hit the ball farther with the new technology. hence the stronger lofts, now instead of a 7 iron you hit an 8 and that makes you feel warm and fuzzy. From a marketing point of view it's pretty smart!

Another factor to consider is that with the advent of cavity backed irons, peripheral weighting and all that, the center of gravity of a lot of irons has been lowered, to help the average golfere get the ball up in the air, resulting in increased launch angle, with the SAME loft on the head. To compensate for this, lofts on iron heads have been made stronger making the long irons look really scary at address. Hence, the current popularity of hybrids.

Does anyone know if there are any irons heads being built where the centre of gravity of the head is the same as the ball face impact point. When the two are the same then maximum tranference of energy takes place. I just resurrected(sp) a set of Hogan PC's (circa 1985?) that have a higher CG and am going to install some preowned graphite shafts in them. Interestingly, when Jack Keuykendall started Natural Golf his clubs had the CG slightly above ball impact point and a significant increase in distance was noted.

[Big Johnny69]

Makes a lot of sense Lyle. But I think the average golfer still needs the CG below the ball. Average golfers just aren't consistent enough to play an iron where the CG matches ball impact. Average joes just don't hit that spot enough. But for someone like yourself I think that would be an optimum set up. I'm sure your contact spot does not vary too much off the centre of your clubfaces, am I correct in assuming this? I think with a set like that only very low or scratch golfers would benefit with such a CG location.

[jvincent]

Does anyone know if there are any irons heads being built where the centre of gravity of the head is the same as the ball face impact point. When the two are the same then maximum tranference of energy takes place.

Not sure, but there are a couple of thread in the Wishon forums that were talking about this which you might find interesting if you haven't seen them already.

http://wishongolf.com/twforum/topic....er,gravity,550

http://wishongolf.com/twforum/topic....er,gravity,550

[clankoffdatee]

The reason I changed was because my DCI's were severely worn out and these were the closest that I could get at a reasonable price. I could not find a set with the same specs and lofts at a decent price. Distance and getting the ball airborne are definitely not a concern for me and therefore were not a consideration. I find it curious that the clubmakers market stronger lofts for a false sense of distance when most JA's struggle with accuracy.Afterall 170 yard 7 irons that are 30 yards in the bush don't add up to good scores. My flight is indeed flatter but carry is the same.Mis don't fade. The difference is in the overall result is in the amount of release and therefore overall distance.This change has forced me to add one more wedge. Interesting....

[BC MIST]

Not sure, but there are a couple of thread in the Wishon forums that were talking about this which you might find interesting if you haven't seen them already.
http://wishongolf.com/twforum/topic....er,gravity,550
http://wishongolf.com/twforum/topic....er,gravity,550

Thanks for the links. This is exactly what I was looking for and I found the discussions fascinating.

I play the Wishon 550C's in the 5, 6, 7 and the 550M's in the 8, 9, PW, AW, AW, so the different distance and dispersion results are relevant. Obviously, the Cav's are more forgiving and what I should be playing in the short irons, but, the cosmetic appearance of the blades makes me salivate, almost. One interesting thing that Tom pointed out is that the CG in the blades is a little lower than in the cavities, but both have identical laucnch angles, all other things being equal. Also, in balancing my old Hogan PC's compared the the 550C's, the CG in the PC's is only 1/16" higher. I have assembled the PC's with a set of Rifle graphite shafts, PUREed by Golfsmith and will likely try them on Thursday or Friday. Again, I get easily sucked in by the beauty of the blades,(PC's), but I guess that I don't use the back of the head to make a shot, unless I an chipping out of trees left handed

[BC MIST]

But for someone like yourself I think that would be an optimum set up. I'm sure your contact spot does not vary too much off the centre of your clubfaces, am I correct in assuming this? I think with a set like that only very low or scratch golfers would benefit with such a CG location.

While most of my shots are hit off the CG, I would be lying if I said that I was as consistent as I could be. Misses are off the toe end of the club, which is less advantageous that if hit the same distance off the heel end. This results in a little more loss of distance and a tendancy to hang out to the right.

The wear spot on my driver is about .5" again to the toe end, but with the bulge, accuracy is fine, and there is a little distance loss, too.

My winter plans are to make heavy use of impact tape and work on hitting the CG "every" time, as doing so will simply maximize both distance and accuracy. Coverting a 20 footer to a 10 footer, might save a shot here and there.

So much to do; so little time.

[clankoffdatee]

Thanks for the links. This is exactly what I was looking for and I found the discussions fascinating.

I play the Wishon 550C's in the 5, 6, 7 and the 550M's in the 8, 9, PW, AW, AW, so the different distance and dispersion results are relevant. Obviously, the Cav's are more forgiving and what I should be playing in the short irons, but, the cosmetic appearance of the blades makes me salivate, almost. One interesting thing that Tom pointed out is that the CG in the blades is a little lower than in the cavities, but both have identical laucnch angles, all other things being equal. Also, in balancing my old Hogan PC's compared the the 550C's, the CG in the PC's is only 1/16" higher. I have assembled the PC's with a set of Rifle graphite shafts, PUREed by Golfsmith and will likely try them on Thursday or Friday. Again, I get easily sucked in by the beauty of the blades,(PC's), but I guess that I don't use the back of the head to make a shot, unless I an chipping out of trees left handed

Qu'est que c'est? Vas is los? Sprechen zie Deutsche? Hablo Espagnol?
Now you've lost me? I am really interested in a laymans version.What is CG?Why is it lower in blades?I am contemplating Rifle UTRI over Dynamic Gold s300"s?Some of my playing partners swear by them. Is there an advantage? I really want to hear from you Tech proppeller heads out there.

[jvincent]

T
I play the Wishon 550C's in the 5, 6, 7 and the 550M's in the 8, 9, PW, AW, AW, so the different distance and dispersion results are relevant. Obviously, the Cav's are more forgiving and what I should be playing in the short irons, but, the cosmetic appearance of the blades makes me salivate, almost. One interesting thing that Tom pointed out is that the CG in the blades is a little lower than in the cavities, but both have identical laucnch angles, all other things being equal.

I've got a set of 550M's, 4-PW. I play a Golfsmith Tour Cavity Forged 3-iron.

To be honest, I don't find them any less forgiving than the Wishon cavity backs, a friend has a full set of 550C's, nor are they any less forgiving than my old cavity backs, the TCF.

I built the 550Ms because:

A. They are really, really, sweet to look at.
B. I just felt like it.

Now after actually playing them for a while I find that I'm really liking the narrow sole. The blades really slice through the rough compared to the somewhat wider sole on the cavity backs. I haven't noticed any big difference in distance on toe hits compared to my old clubs, i.e. they still go short but no shorter than I would have expected. Oh, and did I mention they are really sweet to look at?

[jvincent]

Qu'est que c'est? Vas is los? Sprechen zie Deutsche? Hablo Espagnol?
Now you've lost me? I am really interested in a laymans version.What is CG?Why is it lower in blades?I am contemplating Rifle UTRI over Dynamic Gold s300"s?Some of my playing partners swear by them. Is there an advantage? I really want to hear from you Tech proppeller heads out there.

CG is "Center of Gravity". It's not necessarily always lower in blades, just the specific ones that we are talking about, i.e. Wishon 550 blades vs 550 cavity backs.

Not sure what a Rifle UTRI is. Do you mean Tour Flighted Rifle? If so, the TFRs are designed to give a lower trajectory in the short irons than normal Rifles. It's been so long since I played Dynamic shafts I can't remember how the DGS300s compare to the Rifles.

[BC MIST]

I've got a set of 550M's, 4-PW. I play a Golfsmith Tour Cavity Forged 3-iron.
To be honest, I don't find them any less forgiving than the Wishon cavity backs, a friend has a full set of 550C's, nor are they any less forgiving than my old cavity backs, the TCF.
I built the 550Ms because:
A. They are really, really, sweet to look at.
B. I just felt like it.
Now after actually playing them for a while I find that I'm really liking the narrow sole. The blades really slice through the rough compared to the somewhat wider sole on the cavity backs. I haven't noticed any big difference in distance on toe hits compared to my old clubs, i.e. they still go short but no shorter than I would have expected. Oh, and did I mention they are really sweet to look at?

Interesting how our taste in clubs is similar. Have a set of Tour Cavity Forged, Proforged blades, and two sets of combined Wishon 550's, C's and M's. All were designed by Tom Wishon.

BTW: Do you like the look of the 550B's?