Lost & Found Ball

[dH]

This is slightly different from the LOST BALL post so I've put in another one.

Player A; can't find his ball in the rough so he drops and hits another.

Before leaving he finds his ball hits it.

Which ball is he forced to play?

Just curious as it came up in a match I played on the weekend.

[GarthM]

Neither. He has dropped incorrectly and must return to where he originally hit the first ball from and play 3 (assuming he lost the ball off the tee) otherwise he loses the hole.

[AAA]

Before we go any further was this match play or stroke play ?
Because he seems to have got a lot of potential problems.

[zoic]

That sounds like a tough one. I mean if it is just a friendly game I suppose the other players would let him continue with the first shot that was found after hitting another, not by the rules of course. If it was a match of sorts, then I would think he should have hit a provisional if there was concern of loosing the ball in the fray.

[dH]

It was matchplay. (We ended up even after 18) Thank god for that sandtrap that caught him

Also it was the 2nd shot; both of us duffed our TEE and he hit it from the rough into the deeeep rough with the 7 wood.

He than couldn't find it; so he droped one and hit it (Wide Right).

Than he found his ball; hit that one and it landed near the green.

He kept the 2nd ball (Original) and played right next to the green.

I was alittle bit like is this fair?? As he knew what to do on the 2nd shot as his 1st went wide.

IT WAS A FRIENDLY GAME; but if your going to play a game just curious what the ruling was.

Personally I thought he should ATLEAST play the 1st ball he hit; whether he got a penalty or not I didn't really care.

[zoic]

That is one of the tough things about a match that is a friendly game. It means rewriting the rules to suit your match, and unspecified situations become difficult to resolve if both parties do not agree on the correct procedure ahead of time. Personally I would play my first ball, but if this was a match around a friendly game, I would play the other one instead out of a sense of fair play against a set of rules that are not fully defined in advance.

[LobWedge]

This is slightly different from the LOST BALL post so I've put in another one.

Player A; can't find his ball in the rough so he drops and hits another.

Before leaving he finds his ball hits it.

Which ball is he forced to play?

Just curious as it came up in a match I played on the weekend.

As soon as he played the second ball, the first ball is declared lost, and he loses the hole. Rule 27 requires him to go back, drop and play a ball from a spot as near as possible to where he played his previous stroke, with a one stroke penalty. Since he didn't do that, and it's match play, he loses the hole.

[el tigre]

That is one of the tough things about a match that is a friendly game. It means rewriting the rules to suit your match, and unspecified situations become difficult to resolve if both parties do not agree on the correct procedure ahead of time. Personally I would play my first ball, but if this was a match around a friendly game, I would play the other one instead out of a sense of fair play against a set of rules that are not fully defined in advance.

If you play by the official Rules of Golf, you don't have to worry about this.

[dH]

Thanks for clearing all this up; I find following the rules to be very important; even if I'm playing alone if I hit my tee shot awfuly; I go over there and try and make the 2nd shot count.

[zoic]

If you play by the official Rules of Golf, you don't have to worry about this

Yes, of course. I was more thinking of this in terms of local rules, like the OttawaGolf Tour for an example.

From the "local rules":

Provisional ball played, Original ball found, but unplayable

• In this situation, you may play your provisional rather than abandoning it and returning to the tee. (pace of play)

[1dash1]

Yes, of course. I was more thinking of this in terms of local rules, like the OttawaGolf Tour for an example.

From the "local rules":

Provisional ball played, Original ball found, but unplayable

• In this situation, you may play your provisional rather than abandoning it and returning to the tee. (pace of play)

Wow, what a gem. For a situation that might happen once in a tournament among an entire field of competitors, the Committee would permit such a bending of the Rules.

In the last five years of officiating, I do not recall ever observing a player proceed under option R. 28a, stroke and distance. There have been times where I thought that might be a better option than the one the player chose. Nonetheless, the players have always favored playing the ball out, taking the two clublength option, R. 28b., or the in line with the hole option, R. 28c.

[AAA]

Yes, of course. I was more thinking of this in terms of local rules, like the OttawaGolf Tour for an example.

From the "local rules":

Provisional ball played, Original ball found, but unplayable

• In this situation, you may play your provisional rather than abandoning it and returning to the tee. (pace of play)

[el tigre]

In the last five years of officiating, I do not recall ever observing a player proceed under option R. 28a, stroke and distance.

Perhaps if they already knew the outcome of proceeding under option 28a, they would choose it more often.

[1dash1]

El tigre:

I think you're right!

Of course, that means that they would hit more Provisionals in all sorts of situations. For example, after short-siding a tee shot into a deep bunker on a Par 3 hole, the player would automatically tee up a Provisional - hoping to sink it for his par or get it close for a bogey. He's got nothing to lose for trying. Ditto for any approach shots to the green.

And that would SLOW the pace of play, contrary to the intent of the local rule.

Aaargh!!

[AAA]

But under Decision 27-2a/3 the ball is not a provisional ball.

[el tigre]

But under Decision 27-2a/3 the ball is not a provisional ball.

Maybe - maybe not. If the ball is not in sight, then I think you can say there is "reasonable evidence" that the ball may be lost - even in a bunker.

In any case, the point 1dash1 made is still valid. It is to your advantage to play as many provisionals as you possibly can with this local rule - you've got nothing to lose and you never know when you might get lucky.

[AAA]

El tigre:

For example, after short-siding a tee shot into a deep bunker on a Par 3 hole,

If you know its in the bunker how can you say it is lost.
I doubt a player would get away with it consistently with a RO with his match. He could be had by 6-7.

[el tigre]

If you know its in the bunker how can you say it is lost.
I doubt a player would get away with it consistently with a RO with his match. He could be had by 6-7.

Rule 27 says "may be lost". There have been plenty of times when I KNOW where my ball is - and then have not been able to find it. Especially at this time of year with all the leaves falling. After all, I have lost a ball in a bunker before. Yes, you can push this too far - but if your ball is no longer in sight then I think you have sufficient "reasonable evidence".

[Gary Hill]

but if your ball is no longer in sight then I think you have sufficient "reasonable evidence".

I agree with your point.

However, I would caution you on the use of the term "reasonable evidence" in this context. "Reasonable evidence" in the Rules of Golf is something completely different.