Sticking a tee in the bottom of your grip

["Richard"]

played with someone new to our golf circle yesterday and he used a tee in the hole at bottom of his club in thi grip. I asked him what he was doing and she said "it helps me point my club straight back of the target and also helps me with not going outside-in. I didn't say anything since he sucked anyway but was wondering is this legal? Not sure if this makes a difference but he didn't have a tee on every club, just put it in before each shot then pulled it out and put it into the next club he was going to use.

[Chieflongtee]

I asked him what he was doing and she said "it helps me point my club straight back of the target and also helps me with not going outside-in. .

Another one of your great post. Is she a he or a she?

["Richard"]

oh, ahahh. He is a HE As usual another typo. Anyway, I tried it at the range and not sure if it actually helps but you are alor more aware of what you are doing wrong and don' do it :

[1dash1]

played with someone new to our golf circle yesterday and he used a tee in the hole at bottom of his club in thi grip.
... is this legal?

Thotho:

No, it was not legal. Such use of an artificial device as a training aid is illegal. The fact that it is a simple tee, rather than an elaborate contraption, makes no difference. Breach of Rule 14-3.

[spackler]

My grandfather was a scratch golfer, played in the provincial senior amateur circuit for a long time. He even played with Moe Norman a few times. Anyway, he died last year and I ended up with a bunch of his old clubs. ALL the irons had tees stuck in the end of the grip. Low irons, wedges, everything. He was 86 when he died and didn't golf anymore, more just hit a few balls at the range. I assumed because he didn't have a bag, just the loose irons in the trunk, he put the tees there as a storage thing. I hadn't ever considered them as a training aid until right now. Has anyone else heard of this?

["Richard"]

It might not have been that all. Some people put tees on the bottom of their grips so when they put the clubs in the bag the grip doesn't touch the bottom of the bag. There could be water from rain in the bag (its happened to me, rained and water got in and my grips were all wet). If he didn't have a bag he may have put tees in the grips so he put them away in the garage or backyard the grips wouldn't touch the ground. Maybe he thought if he put them heads down it would ruin the heads and grips down would ruin the grips. Just a thought

[Rusty]

Thotho, that could be me you are talking about, the only problem is that I don't suck, I blow!
To make a long story short, my distance sucks and I have been trying to find a way to increase my lag. I found the tee in the grip hole idea mentioned in a few different sources on the web.
The idea is two-fold, the first is that you try to keep the butt end of the club pointed at the line extended through the ball towards the target. If you are pointing the butt of the club outside of that line your swing is too flat, if the butt is inside of that line the swing is too upright. Also it would keep you "in the slot" and not over the top as a byproduct of coming down the target line. (they actually say that you can be pointed a bit inside of the target line)
The second part is that you are to try to keep the butt end pointed along this target line as long as you can, which means that you retain your lag longer.
This is primarily why I do it, and it works, after having done this for the last 3 to 4 weeks I am getting almost another 10 yards with my irons. On top of increasing lag, I find it has helped me to hit down on the ball.
If you think back to the David Leadbetter Laser Guide that was all the rage about 4 or 5 years ago, it used the same principal, stick the laser pointer in the end of the club and then slowly follow the lines in a matt that they supplied with a proper swingpath laid out. Supposedly when you had done that for an hour or two, it would ingrain the proper swing when you went to a full speed swing.
On the question of legality, I suck so bad that its a moo point. When I start shooting in the low 70's I will take the tees out, stop toe wedging, quit the practice swings in the bunkers, fluffing the ball on the fairway, shooting my 3rd shot from where I think the ball should be after my drive finds the trees, and my front and back nine mulligans.

Rusty

[Gary Hill]

On the question of legality, I suck so bad that its a moo point. When I start shooting in the low 70's I will take the tees out, stop toe wedging, quit the practice swings in the bunkers, fluffing the ball on the fairway, shooting my 3rd shot from where I think the ball should be after my drive finds the trees, and my front and back nine mulligans.

I promise to quit smoking when I start to cough.
I promise to diet when I have a heart attack.
I promise to quit cheating in golf when I can shoot par.   

[The Shtick]

Thotho, that could be me you are talking about, the only problem is that I don't suck, I blow!

hmmm...... that just doesn't sound right......

[Rusty]

I was wondering if my suck/blow reference might get me into trouble
I took the day off to play golf and its raining.

I play alot of golf as a single, and I have had the pleasure of playing with some great folks, but the one thing I have learned is that golf can suck the fun out of a day real fast. (theres that word again)
Gary as the rule guru, I can certainly respect where you are coming from, I have read many of your responses to rule questions, and you certainly have a great knowledge of the game. More than likely you are a 1 digit handicap, so the instances where you get yourself into trouble are minimal. I on the other hand see the devil quite often on behind a tree, saying "come on, they are not looking - kick it out from underneath that car and just carry on."
I am sure that you were just making a point with the comparison of dying from cancer or a heart attack, to following the rules, but when I see guys on the course that blow as bad as I do, but want so badly to be better and they are throwing clubs, damaging greens, just because they made a "bad shot". I wonder how they are going to give really bad instances in their life perspective, if he gets that upset playing golf, the only appropriate response to a real life problem is for his head to explode!

If they would give themselves a break and first not demand that they go from a guy that shot 114 the first time he played - to a 8 handicap player in a couple of years they would have a lot more fun. There I said it - fun.
I think its important that we recognise that there are hackers and players out on the course, sure there are a lot more players at a course like The Marshes*, but I bet you even then there are a lot of hackers out there with lots of money.

The rule I see broken all the time is loss of distance and stroke when a tee shot is lost.
You can't tell me that when you are playing with other golfers you don't constantly see them hit one into the woods, anounce that they will be able to find it, and when they get to the spot realize they have lost it, and are hitting their 3rd from "the area".
In my eyes thats not a big deal, but if you cheat like that, then in my opinion - "in for a penny in for a pound".

I like to be upfront about my bending, massaging, snapping or even ignoring the rules of golf. Someone posted in the past about how many golfers break 100 - 90 - 80, I wonder if anyone has figured out how many play by the rules?

Anyway, I agree that there are rules that have to be followed ** but I still want to have fun, and for me that includes "flexibilty"***

The really neat thing about this is that Thotho tried the tee thing, and it may have worked!

Rusty

* - The Marshes, is that the same gramatical rule as The Glebe?
** -for instance one rule that I never break is knocking out the cart girl and stealing all of her money.
*** - please do not infer that my flexibilty has anything to do with my sucking or blowing.

[oldmaninblack]

The rule I see broken all the time is loss of distance and stroke when a tee shot is lost.
You can't tell me that when you are playing with other golfers you don't constantly see them hit one into the woods, anounce that they will be able to find it, and when they get to the spot realize they have lost it, and are hitting their 3rd from "the area".
In my eyes thats not a big deal, but if you cheat like that, then in my opinion - "in for a penny in for a pound".

It's a HUGE deal and anyone that does it is not playing golf. If you don't follow the rules, especially this one, you don't know what your score is. Did you break 100? How can you tell when this cheat could have saved you 10 strokes on one hole? You're assuming that you WOULD have hit your provisional in the fairway, near where your ball went in the woods ... what if you hit another in the woods ... or in the water or out of bounds?

Why is it OK to break the rules when you're playing golf, but not OK when you're playing hockey/football/baseball/tennis?

[The Shtick]

It's a HUGE deal and anyone that does it is not playing golf.

As Gary mentioned a couple of years ago, I think that sport is called FLOG.

[Kilroy]

Play flog if you want, but there would be no point in keeping score. Certainly no bragging rights when it comes to milestones.

[Hank Hill]

I realised pretty early on that the only way to see real improvement in this game is to play by the rules and count every stroke. I know you rushed that 1 foot putt and it went 4 foot by, but please don't say, "oh I rushed that, it would have gone in if I had taken my time. Put me down for a six". Knock in the 4 footer and card an 8. Your golf score doesn't equate to your worth as a human being.

You are only really penalising yourself. If you card a 89 that you know was really a 101 when you add up all the foot wedges and "that doesn't count" bull what happens when you improve and shoot a legitamate 90, you won't see the benifit of yor hard work. It's way more fun to record a par when your tee shot ends up behind a big tree, than to get one when you kick it into a safe area of fairway. Just my opinion though.

[Rusty]

Oldmaninblack, that is my point. If you say you play by the rules, but don't hit provisionals, then don't tell me that you shot a 82. As you pointed out not rehitting from the tee, would save more strokes than a toe wedge, or a tee in my butt.
Also I don't know what hockey you are talking about, but when I was playing the whole idea was to not get caught cheating. Thats why I like watching the PGA, no one trys to cheat, they just do it by accident.

My final point is that if you are playing in a tournament or for money, then, yes call someone for having a tee stick out of their butt!

But if you are just out for a round, its only golf.

Rusty

[zoic]

I am with you Rusty, I do not take a stroke for penalties, I only count the number of times I hit the ball. Loosing a ball in the woods or water seems penalty enough, and since I only play for fun, as in "a friendly game" I see no need to concern myself about it. I am sure if there were cameras, and galleries and quality of courses like the pros play, a lot ot us would loose fewer golf balls. I lost 10 in 5 holes just yesterday, all good shots the where hiding in the leaves.

As it is with most sports it seems, competition comes before fun. I personally take great pride in my achievements of birdies and pars, but I cannot see how scoring 12 on a hole that fell apart on is going to give me a true refelection of my real game from the final score. So yes, I am a flogger, and quite happy with that. I had broken a few clubs playing it where it lies, now I just move to a playable lie, since it is for fun.

[jmr73]

My final point is that if you are playing in a tournament or for money, then, yes call someone for having a tee stick out of their butt!

But if you are just out for a round, its only golf.

I agree with you Rusty. Unless you are competing, who cares what you mark down on your scorecard or what you stick on your club. Get your game to the level that you start to feel consistancy and then start tracking scores and playing by all the rules.

Some people don't seem to understand that golf is different to different people. Some people are just out there for 4 hours to enjoy themselves. If it is not affecting you, then why should you care. They are only really cheating themselves.

I would much rather play with someone like Rusty who is having a good time than someone being so anal about the rules that it sucks all the fun out of it.

I admit, that I was once in Rusty's shoes when I could not break 100. I simply enjoyed the game and focussed on the positives. Once I started to play consistant bogey golf or better, then I started to play by all the rules. I still play with a couple of guys who take the odd mulligan and it doesn't really bother me. I know that my score is an official score and know that their mulligan's keep them happy.

[el tigre]

I am with you Rusty, I do not take a stroke for penalties, I only count the number of times I hit the ball. Loosing a ball in the woods or water seems penalty enough, and since I only play for fun, as in "a friendly game" I see no need to concern myself about it.

If you are just out to have fun hitting a golf ball on a golf course, the go out and have fun hitting a golf ball on a golf course. This is called "practice".

If you are keeping score, then you're not practicing - you're playing the game. Since you are both the player and the referee for this game, you should try to play by the rules as much as possible. I'm sure we all realize that it is difficult to follow all the rules all the time - especially when we don't know all the rules as well as we should. We do the best we can, and in casual rounds you only need to satisfy yourself anyway.

But zoic, not taking penalty strokes at all makes your score so totally meaningless that you might as well not bother adding it up. Seriously, just go out and try to make pars and birdies and have some fun practicing. When you're ready to play for real, we can help you with the rules. And then your score will mean something - even if it is higher than you would like it be.

[Golfpeasant]

This always comes up in this forum.

Rusty, there are only golf gestapo on the internet. Have fun playing any sport you want anyway you want. Football is someone changing the rules to soccer and rugby.

[zoic]

But zoic, not taking penalty strokes at all makes your score so totally meaningless that you might as well not bother adding it up. Seriously, just go out and try to make pars and birdies and have some fun practicing. When you're ready to play for real, we can help you with the rules. And then your score will mean something - even if it is higher than you would like it be.

I guess it is a matter of perspective. I am interested in how many strokes it takes me to complete the hole, and should I have a bad stroke through the course of play, I cannot see the point of adding non-existent strokes to my score. If I woof one 20 feet or chunk a chip, or leave a put way short, I do not play it again. I usually reserve mulligans for the first shot off the first tee only, unless I miss a ball in an awkward swing and it makes contact enough to move it but not to move it forward per say. My goal each hole is to get a bogie or better, and rate my play each round by the number of pars I achieve. I do not try for birdies much if there is any risk, since it inevitably ends up worse than a bogie, so I am not much of a risk taker. I often just keep track of pars in my head and skip keeping score altoghether.

Usually someone in the group will want me to report a score, and I report what I get by my rules, which they can mark down or not. I really enjoy golfing (or flog if that is what you call what I am doing) much more now that I am not too strict on the rules, most of which I do not know anyway. I have noticed after reading a lot about the rules here, that many people I play with either cheat or do not know the rules either.

I have little interest in punishing myself with a bad lie or line of play, so I freely move the ball around a few feet to suit my situation. Watching people hurt themselves trying risky shots makes me wonder where common sense goes when you pull out the rule book.

[Kilroy]

It is not a gestapo thing. I for one wish that golf, like (baseball/softball/teeball) had a set of rules for the various levels of skill. So, if you play Tee ball instead of pro baseball everyone knows that it's not the same game and that's OK. Golf does not have such tiers.

Example:
Pro baseball does not allow aluminum bats.
Golfers are not allowed to use drivers above the COR limit, but it would benefit a lot of hackers to have the "aluminum bat" if it were permitted.

So if you want to measure your game, there is one set of rules to do it by. When you say you shot XX the person you tell that to would assume that you played by the book. There is only one.

If the ball is unplayable, move it 2 clubs and add a stroke. Nobody really cares if you shoot 110 or 111.

If you don't count penalty strokes your score is meaningless. That being the case, you know it is meaningless so why bother marking it down? Does it cause you physical discomfort to pencil a 7 instead of a 5? Does it make you feel better at the end of the day to have a lower than deserved score?

I know, the above sounds like the gestapo rules view, but let me give you a "progressive" point of view from one who's been there done that...

Every year I tightened the rules I applied to myself to be closer to the book. I ended up shooting the same numbers every year, knowing in my heart that I was improving, but without the benefit of seeing it on my scorecard. I wish I'd have been man enough to accept my lousy scores then, so I could enjoy my improvement more.

The problem is that nobody wants to admit they have a long way to go to get to whatever score they think is respectable.

Just "play ye ball as ye find it" and you'll be surprised. It often is not as bad as you think it might be, and the satisfaction of better games is very real.

[The Shtick]

Good post Dan.

One more thing to add is that the only way to get better is by playing those shots from a bad lie, recovering after a shank, and by knowing the Rules of Golf.

[g8r]

Why is it OK to break the rules when you're playing golf, but not OK when you're playing hockey/football/baseball/tennis?

Sure its ok to break the rules...go out with your friends and play a game of hockey...do you call every offside, icing or puck freeze and start with a face off? nope, dump it in and keep playing...
football...a hand is on my back, do I call pass interference? probably not..
in friendly games, rules are bent to make the games FLOW...
Im not saying its right, but it happens. In most sports people play by the rules when they are in an organized league, and have an "unwritten" set of rules for the fun games with the friends.....just like golf...
its a game, and yes you are cheating yourself...i fully agree...like Dan said, you don't realize how much you actually improve from 110 to 90 if you've been taking mulligans for all those years...but unless there is money involved, don't worry about how the other guy decides to interpret the rules...

With that said, if you don't play by the rules, you don't get to brag about breaking 80, regardless of if it was an honest 80...because the last time you shot an 85, with 6 mulligans and 2 "it should've gone in"'s...you either play by the rules all the time or you don't. and therefore don't get to brag about ANY scores.
I've seen people shoot honest 85's, when their game was so ON, and then shoot an 89 the next day but it looked like a 100 because they kept saying "give me a 6" instead of the 8 or 9 they really had.

[zoic]

If you don't count penalty strokes your score is meaningless

Well since this is repeated now, I would just like to say that is only meaningless to anyone else. Given that none of you would ever likely remember what I scored a week ago anyway, I think that proves just how meaningless it is to anyone but me. Like most things, in 10 years it will not matter anyways.

When I shoot 85 and take no mulligans, incur no penalty situations or move any balls around, I feel better of course that if I shot 85 without doing this. I am consiously aware of how many times I do it since it is not very often, most of my shots are played safe rather than for glory.

As far as one stroke one way or the other goes, it is not really important to me in measuring my game, since different courses, weather conditions, course condition, etc.... are all going to have some effect on the score. I am more focused on whether I am hitting my clubs that same distance as I was before, or hitting them well. I am focused on how many greens I made in regulation or did not three putt, or how well I am playing my short game. I like target golf mostly, just crushing long drives all day is not a good measure of my game as far as I am concerned and I can do that for a lot less at a driving range. That is probably why I like courses like Dome Hill and Le Sorcier more that open courses.

[Wesvans]

I'm pretty well with the consensus here. Why is the game so unenjoyable if you count strokes for those bad shots? Does the number at the end really have that much of an effect? I am a self admittedly horrible golfer, my scores this year stay quite consistently higher than gas prices. I play the ball as it lies, even though I never play for money or even competitively within my group of friends. It's not fair to the friends in my group that are hitting in the 80-90 region if I start using tricky math on my score so that it comes out near theirs. They are earning that score, I'm not and it would have to be frustrating for them to go out for beers afterward with a guy who is being dishonest about his own game to the point it diminishes their hard work.

That all said, I'm not sure if I have the exact same problem with the tee in the butt cap. If you are only playing a friendly game, no money/beer wagers involved and let your group know you would like to do this for the 18 holes as you are currently "working on you game" is it that big of a problem? I'm not sure what the exact situation was for you two, thotho and Rusty, if it was for fun or if there was a competitive game being played between the two of you. If it was just for fun, and the sole purpose of this was to help him make improvements in his swing it can''t be that big of a deal. No different in my eyes than playing an 18 with a club pro who is training you for the whole round.

I guess all I'm trying to say is for me it would depend on the situation. Even with only one set of rules, there has to be some sort of difference between the "for fun" round and the "loser buys the beers" round.

[jmr73]

I'm pretty well with the consensus here. Why is the game so unenjoyable if you count strokes for those bad shots?

Nobody is saying it is. My question is why does it bother some so much if a person chooses to drop a ball on the other side of a hazard, near where a ball went OB instead of playing a provisional, using a foot-wedge, taking a mulligan. This is just until they start to break 100 consistantly. For beginner golfers writing down double digit scores on every hole might be a little frustrating not to mention slow down the pace and frustrate other golfers.

I doubt any of these people are saying they shot an 85 when they shot a 110 while their buddy shot an honest 87. And then trying to claim a prize. Sounds to me these people are just going out and playing their round and enjoying themselves. What difference does that make.

If you are tracking your handicap, competing in a tounament, or playing for money then obviously play by the rules.

Comparing this to rules in other sports is a stretch. Going out and playing a recreational game of golf (not in competition) is akin to playing pick-up hockey or playing touch football with your friends. Yes, there are base rules, but you don't play by the official NHL rulebook. Some of you might.... there have always been those guys that take recreational games way too seriously. It has been my experience that these guys don't get invited out too often.

Same for golf. At a club I know, there is a guy who is known as the rule guy. His knowledge is impressive, but none of the members want to play with him. I would think that this is because majority of the golfers go out to have a good time.

Golf is a game you play against yourself. You are your own referee. I don't understand how someone not following every single rule impacts you.

[Wesvans]

Nobody is saying it is. My question is why does it bother some so much if a person chooses to drop a ball on the other side of a hazard, near where a ball went OB instead of playing a provisional, using a foot-wedge, taking a mulligan. This is just until they start to break 100 consistantly. For beginner golfers writing down double digit scores on every hole might be a little frustrating not to mention slow down the pace and frustrate other golfers.

Where does this rule that you have to start playing by the rules when you start to break 100 consistently? Or how do you know you break 100 consistently if you consistently miscount your shots? How much do you really think it speeds up play if you move your ball to the other side of a trap or hazard if you're bad enough that you'll likely skull the ball for 10 yards gain the next shot anyway? Why get frustrated writing down a double digit score on a hole if that is what you got? What gives a better golfer the rights to be frustrated with a beginner golfer who is trying to learn the game and is playing by the rules?

Personally, if you need to "augment" your score to feel enjoyment of the game of golf then I have to question how much you really like golf. I just don't get how writing down a 6 on a hold when you know you had 9 makes you feel better and less frustrated. I'm the king of 3 putts and "dick outs" off the tees. I write down the score I got on the hole, not what I wanted. Yeah, I hate being a crappy golfer but I'll get better playing and taking lessons and if I keep the proper score now I get to see every improvement to my game on the scorecard.

[BullDog]

More than likely you are a 1 digit handicap, so the instances where you get yourself into trouble are minimal. I on the other hand see the devil quite often on behind a tree, saying "come on, they are not looking - kick it out from underneath that car and just carry on."
......
I like to be upfront about my bending, massaging, snapping or even ignoring the rules of golf. Someone posted in the past about how many golfers break 100 - 90 - 80, I wonder if anyone has figured out how many play by the rules?

I'm a 15 handicap and I shot a 79 for the first time back in August.

I can *almost* understand your point if you're someone who shoots 130+... at some point one must do something to ensure the group isn't falling 2-3 holes behind the group in front.

But I would not appreciate or enjoy playing with someone who does play in the 80-110 range who breaks every rule in the book. Think you lost your ball? Play a provisional. Nice and simple. Stuck behind a tree? Pitch it out.

Until the rules are observed, the average score per game is X.

Mike

[jmr73]

Where does this rule that you have to start playing by the rules when you start to break 100 consistently? Or how do you know you break 100 consistently if you consistently miscount your shots?

Are you serious? I was giving an example. If someone is getting a +5 on every hole, what is the point of marking an extra penalty stroke or two if they don't want to. Obviously, from the comments here, they are more interested in getting a comfortable swing or getting a couple of decent shots back to back. And not worry about the official rules of golf and whether it is a 2 stroke or 1 stroke penalty or if that was 1 or 2 club lengths, etc.. etc... That will come in time. Let them enjoy the game.

Once they start to get a couple of pars, or a bunch of bogeys, and their score is coming down to 100 or 105 or 110 or 95 or 85 or whatever point it is they feel comfortable. They can start to play official golf. How will they know?... well when they are getting those pars without going OB or having to move the ball they will know.

How much do you really think it speeds up play if you move your ball to the other side of a trap or hazard if you're bad enough that you'll likely skull the ball for 10 yards gain the next shot anyway? Why get frustrated writing down a double digit score on a hole if that is what you got?

Absolutely, I am talking about golfers who could be shooting 120-150 or more. This is why many beginner golfers play best ball. If the person is going OB 4 times on the same hole, then pick it up and move it. Can't get out of the bunker... take it out. If that is what they want let them do it. If they are getting 15 on every hole they may not enjoy themselves and decide to quit the game. But if they move to the next hole and get a bogey, they may start to build confidence and improve their scores and get to the point that everyone here seems so important... where they follow the rules.

What gives a better golfer the rights to be frustrated with a beginner golfer who is trying to learn the game and is playing by the rules?

When some of the rules state you should go back to the tee... The thought of someone who is shooting 150 coming back to the tee after discovering the ball he thought was OB is unplayable. I could see that being a cause for frustration for other golfers. I think that golfer should focus more on learning the basics of the game, getting a consistant swing and staying in bounds...then learn the rules later. I am not saying they can't play by the rules if they want to... this whole discussion is about golfers who don't want to abide by every single rule in the rule book. Why is that a problem for others?

Personally, if you need to "augment" your score to feel enjoyment of the game of golf then I have to question how much you really like golf. I just don't get how writing down a 6 on a hold when you know you had 9 makes you feel better and less frustrated. I'm the king of 3 putts and "dick outs" off the tees. I write down the score I got on the hole, not what I wanted. Yeah, I hate being a crappy golfer but I'll get better playing and taking lessons and if I keep the proper score now I get to see every improvement to my game on the scorecard.

That's fine if that's what you want. I agree with you and play by the rules. I take penalty strokes as I earn them. But if someone else doesn't want to and they are happy that way than so be it. Do you not understand that for some people, their priorities might be to get to the point where they can shoot a decent score and then focus on all the rules. Others may be capable of shooting in the low 80s but choose to play the odd mulligan or foot-wedge. WHO CARES if it is not affecting you.

[BullDog]

I personally take great pride in my achievements of birdies and pars, but I cannot see how scoring 12 on a hole that fell apart on is going to give me a true refelection of my real game from the final score.

That's what equitable stroke control manages when trying to accurately calculate one's handicap. It does assume, however, that one is playing by the rules in order to properly reflect one's abilities or "real game".