What's with Hasek??!!

[broken27]

The ottawa police do not remove their hat for the same reason that the military does not remove their hat either as they are to keep them on and salute during the anthem. Just to let you know.
And Dan I don't want to impose the removal of the hat to anyone during the playing of the anthem but it is just something that bothers me as a member of the Canadian armed forces. That's all.
Claude

I have a lot of respect for the people of the Armed Forces, and have no qualm with your position.

My biggest problem is that Hasek hasn't even played one meaningful game for Ottawa, and the fans are already looking for reasons to not like him. Seems kind of stupid and contrary in a town that desperately wanted a goaltending hero.

Dan

[LobWedge]

I have a lot of respect for the people of the Armed Forces, and have no qualm with your position.

My biggest problem is that Hasek hasn't even played one meaningful game for Ottawa, and the fans are already looking for reasons to not like him. Seems kind of stupid and contrary in a town that desperately wanted a goaltending hero.

Dan

Gee. You think this will come up again if Hasek leads the Sens to the cup?

[broken27]

Gee. You think this will come up again if the Sens win the cup?

Then Hasek won't be holding his pinky high enough when sipping champagne from the Cup...

Dan
I'm assuming that every single person with "Miss Manners" approach to the hats also has their shirt tucked in 24/7.

[SGH]

I can't speak for Hasek specifically, but I know some goalie helmets are molded so specifically, that they are a real pain to take on and off. I believe this was a past issue with Curtis Joseph if I'm not mistaken. If this is why Hasek didn't take his lid off, that's understandable.

As for every other question of courtesy that has been mentioned as a tangent to the original discussion, I must agree. A man should stand for a woman, any woman, and offer his seat. This is not done to make the woman feel feeble, but rather to treat her with a certain level of respect that has been engrained in our culture over the last couple hundred years. And as for taking your hat off, that has to be expected, and having been to many games, I was once reminded to take my hat off (I was so used to wearing one, I had forgotten). I thanked the gentleman for pointed it out to me, immediately removed my hat. He was not as polite as he could have been in pointing this out to me, but I was glad he did nonetheless. I guess some have been raised differently than others.

Dan, I agree with about 98% of your hockey related posted/comments, but from now on perhaps you should stick to talking about hockey. Leave lessons on respect, courtesy and social grace to others. Just a suggestion, as I'd hate to see you get suspended again, you're an asset to hockey discussions (the only threads I read now that I'm done golfing for the season).

[broken27]

Dan, I agree with about 98% of your hockey related posted/comments, but from now on perhaps you should stick to talking about hockey. Leave lessons on respect, courtesy and social grace to others. Just a suggestion, as I'd hate to see you get suspended again, you're an asset to hockey discussions (the only threads I read now that I'm done golfing for the season).

Just to be clear, I am not trying to give anyone any etiquette lessons other tell anyone how to approach the national anthem. I don't wear hats much off the golf course, so it's not a problem for me...

Ultimately: Why is everyone so concerned what everyone else is doing during the anthem? How much attention are you paying to the revered song of the Great White North if you have time to notice who is and who isn't wearing a hat?

Dan

[el tigre]

I have a lot of respect for the people of the Armed Forces, and have no qualm with your position.

My biggest problem is that Hasek hasn't even played one meaningful game for Ottawa, and the fans are already looking for reasons to not like him. Seems kind of stupid and contrary in a town that desperately wanted a goaltending hero.

Dan

Whether or not the national anthems should be played at sporting events is a matter of opinion but not really relevant here. The fact is that they are played, and out of courtesy and respect the players stand at attention and remove their helmets during them. When 39 players do so and 1 player does not, it begs the question "Why?"

Perhaps it was simply a mistake. Perhaps it really was meant as some sort of statement or protest. Or perhaps there is another explanation. But it is a legitimate question that deserves to be answered. As someone who works in the "hockey media", perhaps you should be asking that question, Dan.

[broken27]

Whether or not the national anthems should be played at sporting events is a matter of but not really relevant here. The fact is that they are played, and out of courtesy and respect the players stand at attention and remove their helmets during them. When 39 players do so and 1 player does not, it begs the question "Why?"

Perhaps it was simply a mistake. Perhaps it really was meant as some sort of statement or protest. Or perhaps there is another explanation. But it is a legitimate question that deserves to be answered. As someone who works in the "hockey media", perhaps you should be asking that question, Dan.

We should also spend a great deal of time researching the spitting that goes on during the anthem then? Hockey media has better things to do. I can assure you of one thing, and that is that Hasek would not stage a protest without it being in the news...

Dan

[el tigre]

We should also spend a great deal of time researching the spitting that goes on during the anthem then? Hockey media has better things to do. I can assure you of one thing, and that is that Hasek would not stage a protest without it being in the news...

Dan

Journalists are supposed to serve their readers - not the other way around. It seems obvious based on the response to this thread that hockey fans are interested in this topic.

If people really wanted to know about the spitting that goes on during the anthem, then the "hocky media" should look into that too. That's their job.

[broken27]

Journalists are supposed to serve their readers - not the other way around. It seems obvious based on the response to this thread that hockey fans are interested in this topic.

If people really wanted to know about the spitting that goes on during the anthem, then the "hocky media" should look into that too. That's their job.

Well, the 6 people or so who have spoken up here, compared to the 19000+ who have said nothing about it would indicate to me what the true interest level is...

Dan

[Shivas Irons]

Again I ask, how is this disrespectful?

I asked this same question of my father...when I was 4 years old.
To have to explain "why" good manners and respect are important to an adult is embarrassing, but since your parents were unable to, I'll try to underscore the significance of it.
The general lack of understanding as to why small courtesies are important is indicative of a society that has become as self absorbed as a black hole.
The idea is for each of us to add to, rather than subtract from, an otherwise impolite world.
So go ahead and exercise your personal freedoms and choose to not remove your hat, or give up your seat, or hold a door open (at the same time not realizing why you even have personal freedoms) but if you're not going to give any respect to others don't expect to get any.

[broken27]

I asked this same question of my father...when I was 4 years old.
To have to explain "why" good manners and respect are important to an adult is embarrassing, but since your parents were unable to, I'll try to underscore the significance of it.
The general lack of understanding as to why small courtesies are important is indicative of a society that has become as self absorbed as a black hole.
The idea is for each of us to add to, rather than subtract from, an otherwise impolite world.
So go ahead and exercise your personal freedoms and choose to not remove your hat, or give up your seat, or hold a door open (at the same time not realizing why you even have personal freedoms) but if you're not going to give any respect to others don't expect to get any.

How come you can't just answer his question...? He's not asking WHY, he's asking HOW is it disrespectful.

Dan

[jeffc]

Plain and simple. If someone has to explain this to you then it's just not worth having the conversation.

Respect your elders.
Respect your country (including the flag and anthem). After all a lot of people died for you to have that right.
Hold the door open for other people (and let the woman enter first).
Let women off the elevator first.
Shake hands after a golf game.
Give up your seat to the elderly, woman (especially pregnant ones), handicapped, etc.
Say please and thank you.


"Decency is the thin veneer that separates civilization from chaos." Aldous Huxley

[Shivas Irons]

How come you can't just answer his question...? He's not asking WHY, he's asking HOW is it disrespectful.

Dan

My first response would be "because that's the way it is" - you know, like when you're trying to explain something to a young child who just keeps saying "but why daddy?"

Same reason that we say please and thank you, why we hold the door open, why we line-up instead of budding to the front of the line. RESPECT.

Once again, removing your hat is a sign of courtesy and respect. - pretty simple concept for most of us.

I have already provided a link to hat etiquette, so you don't need to keep asking "but why, but why, but why, but why, but why .." until you're blue in the face, or have thrown a tantrum and need a timeout.
When you guys mature a little you might have a better understanding of the importance of common courtesy.

[el tigre]

Well, the 6 people or so who have spoken up here, compared to the 19000+ who have said nothing about it would indicate to me what the true interest level is...

Dan

Wow, there are 19,000+ visitors to this golf forum every week! That's unbelievable!! No wonder Dan K has much time and money for golf!

[broken27]

Wow, there are 19,000+ visitors to this golf forum every week! That's unbelievable!! No wonder Dan K has much time and money for golf!

19000+ were at the game. At least according to the official attendance.

Dan

[broken27]

My first response would be "because that's the way it is" - you know, like when you're trying to explain something to a young child who just keeps saying "but why daddy?"

Same reason that we say please and thank you, why we hold the door open, why we line-up instead of budding to the front of the line. RESPECT.

Once again, removing your hat is a sign of courtesy and respect. - pretty simple concept for most of us.

I have already provided a link to hat etiquette, so you don't need to keep asking "but why, but why, but why, but why, but why .." until you're blue in the face, or have thrown a tantrum and need a timeout.
When you guys mature a little you might have a better understanding of the importance of common courtesy.

You need to learn about courtesy and respect if anyone man... Your tone is constantly sarcastic and condescending... Consider changing your name to Chivas Regal.

Dan

[el tigre]

19000+ were at the game. At least according to the official attendance.

Dan

Yes, I know. I was being sarcastic in response to your rather lame use of statistics. Next you'll be comparing the 6 people to the population of Canada!

The vast majority of people who have posted in this thread are obviously on the opposite side of the issue as you. SGH may very well be correct and the reason Hasek left his helmet on is because it is very difficult to take off. It would be a good thing to find out. If he leaves his helmet for every NHL game, you can be sure the question will come up again.

[broken27]

Yes, I know. I was being sarcastic in response to your rather lame use of statistics. Next you'll be comparing the 6 people to the population of Canada!

The vast majority of people who have posted in this thread are obviously on the opposite side of the issue as you. SGH may very well be correct and the reason Hasek left his helmet on is because it is very difficult to take off. It would be a good thing to find out. If he leaves his helmet for every NHL game, you can be sure the question will come up again.

It's a valid question, and if you're really curious, ask it. There is nothing prohibiting you from contacting the Senators front office and asking yourself. Considering NOT A SINGLE word of this was mentioned in any media outlet would serve as an indication that the interest level is confined to this forum...

If he leaves his helmet on for every NHL game, he'll have fewer head injuries for starters, but seriously, then it would be a topic worth following up on.

But I think the main thing being missed here is that Hasek is NOT Canadian, nor is he likely to ever be one. It's not HIS anthem, so he owes NOTHING to the country. If you're suggesting that everyone who works in Canada (some not even by choice) should feel some sense of patriotism or innate reverence for the anthem, I don't see it. If not in the NHL, Hasek would be playing somewhere else... Respect, sure, and I don't think he DIS-respected anything.

I'll dig up some pics from the Czech hockey site of players lining up for anthems. Hell, even some Czechs don't take off the headgear... Pretty much everyone is spitting though, which seems to transcend borders...

Dan

[jhazelton]

Again I ask, how is this disrespectful?

The best answer I can give you is it goes against tradition and etiquette. I believe it is considered common courtesy to remove your hat when entering a residence, sitting down at a dinner table, raising a flag, attending a funeral, attending a church service. the disrespect comes from the choice to ignore tradition and etiquette.

[broken27]

The best answer I can give you is it goes against tradition and etiquette. I believe it is considered common courtesy to remove your hat when entering a residence, sitting down at a dinner table, raising a flag, attending a funeral, attending a church service. the disrespect comes from the choice to ignore tradition and etiquette.

That's a good answer, primarily because it addresses the question!

Dan

[broken27]

Here's a picture of a Sparta Praha exhibition game against Kloten Flyers. Note that the players are all wearing helmets. I'll try to get one with the actual singer in the picture, although I believe they still use PA and recordings for the most part, instead of Hulk Hogan's daughter or someone equally as talented....

Edit: added second pic showing anthem lineup, players still wearing headgear... This from Sparta/HC Slovan Ústečtí Lvi

Dan

[LobWedge]

I asked this same question of my father...when I was 4 years old.
To have to explain "why" good manners and respect are important to an adult is embarrassing, but since your parents were unable to, I'll try to underscore the significance of it.
The general lack of understanding as to why small courtesies are important is indicative of a society that has become as self absorbed as a black hole.
The idea is for each of us to add to, rather than subtract from, an otherwise impolite world.
So go ahead and exercise your personal freedoms and choose to not remove your hat, or give up your seat, or hold a door open (at the same time not realizing why you even have personal freedoms) but if you're not going to give any respect to others don't expect to get any.

I've been away from the thread for a bit, but I can see that some skulls continue to thicken...

This thread has absolutely nothing to do with how I choose to behave or not. I am very respectful of others and remove my headwear as a sign of respect when the situation warrants.

The question refers to HOW the situation in question applies to a professional hockey game in which the person in question is not even a citizen of this country is somehow a lesser person, and less respectful than the rest of you.

Resorting to personal attacks on me, my family, or anyone elses character, only reinforce the fact that you are not equipped to answer the question, or refuse to view things from the larger perspective, and instead have to throw around insults in order to make yourself feel better about it.

[LobWedge]

Here's a picture of a Sparta Praha exhibition game against Kloten Flyers. Note that the players are all wearing helmets. I'll try to get one with the actual singer in the picture, although I believe they still use PA and recordings for the most part, instead of Hulk Hogan's daughter or someone equally as talented....

Edit: added second pic showing anthem lineup, players still wearing headgear... This from Sparta/HC Slovan Ústečtí Lvi

Dan

BARBARIANS!!!

[broken27]

BARBARIANS!!!

Those poor uncultured Europeans who have been around for thousands of years longer than Canadians should really start paying attention to how we do things over here...

Dan

[Shivas Irons]

Those poor uncultured Europeans who have been around for thousands of years longer than Canadians should really start paying attention to how we do things over here...

Dan

Who do you think came to Canada to "settle" it? Possibly those very same poor uncultured Europeans?

This next part is really good though...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhazelton
The best answer I can give you is it goes against tradition and etiquette. I believe it is considered common courtesy to remove your hat when entering a residence, sitting down at a dinner table, raising a flag, attending a funeral, attending a church service. the disrespect comes from the choice to ignore tradition and etiquette.


That's a good answer, primarily because it addresses the question!

Dan


but wait...when you read these 4 earlier posts, it still wasn't clear:

Once again, removing your hat is a sign of courtesy and respect.

a certain level of respect that has been engrained in our culture over the last couple hundred years.

just a little respect for our flag and our anthem

these "courtesies and respects" are expected.

If some scribe approaches Hasek and asks him why he didn't remove his helmet, and Hasek responds with "why should I, it's not my national anthem." what do you think the fan reaction would be?

[broken27]

Who do you think came to Canada to "settle" it? Possibly those very same poor uncultured Europeans?

You heard it here folks, Canada was settled by Czechs. You're all welcome!

This next part is really good though...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhazelton
The best answer I can give you is it goes against tradition and etiquette. I believe it is considered common courtesy to remove your hat when entering a residence, sitting down at a dinner table, raising a flag, attending a funeral, attending a church service. the disrespect comes from the choice to ignore tradition and etiquette.


That's a good answer, primarily because it addresses the question!

Dan


but wait...when you read these 4 earlier posts, it still wasn't clear:

Once again, removing your hat is a sign of courtesy and respect.

a certain level of respect that has been engrained in our culture over the last couple hundred years.

just a little respect for our flag and our anthem

these "courtesies and respects" are expected.

If some scribe approaches Hasek and asks him why he didn't remove his helmet, and Hasek responds with "why should I, it's not my national anthem." what do you think the fan reaction would be?

Maybe if you could write in full sentences, I could understand your posts. Not once did you explain it as clearly and concisely as jhazelton did, or did you say why keeping a hat on is disrespectful. Instead, you chose to waste your typing on commentary about peoples' parents, their infantile views and their inadequate grasp of Ms Manners (which seems to be an appropriate site for you to have bookmarked).

So, back to the original topic: Given that I have provided you with photographic proof of how it's done back home (for his own anthem), is Hasek still being an a-hole? And if I were to provide for you pictures of backup goalies on the bench wearing baseball caps (wrong sport to be considered equipment), are they all being disrespectful?

Maybe you don't realize this, but these guys are gearing up for work. I'm sure if you took a poll, most of them would do away with the anthem completely, as it is an unnecessary distraction. Play it while the teams are still in the lockerroom...

As to your last point about fan reaction, who cares? Fans will almost always go 50/50 on that type of thing, and can only expose their lack of true passion for the game by getting sidetracked by stupid things like this.

Dan

[Hank Hill]

I'd prefer to see Hasek keep his lid on and the Sens beat the Leafs than that terrible "Stevie Wonder impression" that Lalime used to do during the anthem.

I'm a brit but removed my hat for the anthem at the Corel as it seemed the correct thing to do, whether others do it or not doesn't bother me, but i'd never ever sing "God save the Queen".

PS Do many of you learn a foreign national anthem when visiting a new country just incase it gets played so that you can show your respect? I say this because I went to Ireland and they play the national athem in pubs at a cetain time, I had no clue what was going on when everybody stood up and started singing, I sort of had to stand and "la la la" along with it .

[Shivas Irons]

You heard it here folks, Canada was settled by Czechs. You're all welcome!
Dan

Feel free to grab a globe & check out Europe, I think you'll discover other countries.

Maybe if you could write in full sentences, I could understand your posts. Dan

Doubt it.

As to your last point about fan reaction, who cares?
Dan

Who cares? hmmm...let's see, who might care...Eugene Melnick, Gary Bettman, Roy Mlaker....the list goes on.

[broken27]

Feel free to grab a globe & check out Europe, I think you'll discover other countries.



Doubt it.



Who cares? hmmm...let's see, who might care...Eugene Melnick, Gary Bettman, Roy Mlaker....the list goes on.

That's right bud... There are other countries in Europe than the Czech Republic. I've visited many of them. I maintain residential ties with one of them. Not one of them contextually relevant to this discussion. Nice try.

You're right, even in complete sentences you wouldn't make sense...

Melnyk, Bettman and Mlakar are businessmen, not politicians. If they cared you'd have heard about it by now, from them... I've even heard Mlakar talk about the anthem playing being archaic given that a pile of players aren't from Canada/USA... Hell, ESPECIALLY the Senators understand that notion...

And by the way, since you're clearly more interested in goading me into an argument than discussing the topic at hand, I'm done responding to you. Feel free to continue your assault of witty and well-thought out insults. I'm sure they amuse you.

Dan

[el tigre]

Maybe you don't realize this, but these guys are gearing up for work. I'm sure if you took a poll, most of them would do away with the anthem completely, as it is an unnecessary distraction. Play it while the teams are still in the lockerroom...

As to your last point about fan reaction, who cares? Fans will almost always go 50/50 on that type of thing, and can only expose their lack of true passion for the game by getting sidetracked by stupid things like this.

Dan

Ah Dan, I think Domenic Hasek's employer cares a great deal about fan reaction. They can't afford to alienate 25% of their fan base let alone 50% regardless of the reason. If Hasek does not have a good explanation for leaving his helmet on, you can be pretty darn sure he will be told to remove it from now on.