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Thread: Am I obligated to identify?
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09-14-2005 09:12 PM #31Originally Posted by Reid Masson
Just reload without declaring it a provisional ball. The second ball automagically becomes the ball in play and the original ball is "lost" under the definition. That way, even if some smart guy runs into the woods and finds it, you are under no obligation to play it. It is no longer "your" ball.
If you do play a provisional ball and a whacky opponent finds it deep in the goulash, one of the unplayable options is to play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played. At least that is better than 20 strokes to hack out the original ball.
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09-14-2005 09:27 PM #32Originally Posted by Gary Hill
MikeStrive for perfection, but never expect it!
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09-14-2005 09:56 PM #33
I appreciate the reply Gary. I actually find this very interesting.
So basically, if I am getting this right, I am pretty much just declaring the ball lost right away and my second ball is now in play with of course a corresponding two stroke penalty. I hope that's correct.
Now what if I've played my second ball and we walk down the fairway and darned if my first ball isn't also in the middle of the fairway, presumably because it hit a tree and miraculously bounced out and nobody saw it? I presume I am now obligated to play the second ball and the first ball is still no longer my ball. Is that correct.
Originally Posted by Gary Hill
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09-14-2005 09:58 PM #34bbadGuestOriginally Posted by mberube
If so, then point taken
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09-14-2005 10:16 PM #35Originally Posted by Reid Masson
...or are you talking about your other whacky opponent?? In that case, that was no miracle - that guy has a lot of experience finding golf balls in the woods. I would stay out of there if I was you.[COLOR=green][B]Golf is a game invented by the same people who think music comes out of bagpipes.[/B][/COLOR]
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09-14-2005 11:42 PM #36
Reid,
Hit your provisional before he finds the ball. Nothing says you have to go look. So if it is your turn, go ahead and hit your provisional. If you take a stroke at it past the spot your original was most likely, it becomes your ball in play. Let him search all he wants, it's too late at that point in time.It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.
Colby
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09-15-2005 05:15 AM #37Originally Posted by Reid Masson
The original ball is no longer your "ball in play" even if you do subsequently find it. You may pick it up and put in your bag as a lucky charm.
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09-15-2005 05:26 AM #38Originally Posted by Colby
In stroke play, there is no penalty.
In match play, the opponent may require you to replay the stroke, but a stroke at the provisional ball past the point where the original ball is likely to be has been played and the original ball is already "lost".
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09-15-2005 06:09 AM #39
Thanks Gary, Colby and El Tigre. Very interesting. It looks like I've been playing within the rules as I usually declare a provisional, take a cursory glance to see if I maybe got lucky and if the woods are too thick I just continue on playing the provisional with the appropriate penalty.
I do occasionally play with the 'helpful' types however who like to say "I think you might be able to find that" in situations where quite frankly, I would rather not...
I can see now that I actually have more options than I thought other than hacking thru the woods if they happen to find it. I'll consult the rule book to clarify further.
Thanks, Reid
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09-15-2005 06:13 AM #40Originally Posted by Reid Masson
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09-15-2005 07:53 AM #41Originally Posted by Gary HillIt could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.
Colby
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09-15-2005 08:10 AM #42Originally Posted by bbad
Originally Posted by bbad
The player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course except when the ball is in a water hazard.
Originally Posted by bbad
Rule 28 Ball Unplayable:
The player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course except when the ball is in a water hazard. The player is the sole judge as to whether his ball is unplayable.
If the player deems his ball to be unplayable, he must, under penalty of one stroke:
a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or
b. Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or
c. Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole.
If the unplayable ball is in a bunker, the player may proceed under Clause a, b or c. If he elects to proceed under Clause b or c, a ball must be dropped in the bunker.
The ball may be lifted and cleaned when proceeding under this Rule.Strive for perfection, but never expect it!
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09-15-2005 11:25 AM #43Originally Posted by Reid Masson
If you don’t announce a provisional and hit that one off line also you’re bound to make a big number on your score card.
MikeStrive for perfection, but never expect it!
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09-15-2005 09:51 PM #44Originally Posted by Reid Masson
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09-15-2005 10:18 PM #45Originally Posted by mmason31It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.
Colby
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09-16-2005 09:05 AM #46bbadGuestOriginally Posted by mberube
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09-17-2005 12:21 AM #47"Richard"Guest
I've already posted about this before but could I have done this? I hit a ball into the left trees that were marked with red stakes on a dog leg right. I teed up a provisional and put it into the trees as well then teed up another one and put it into there as well... finally pulled out an iron and put it in the fairway I found my first ball but it was unplayable and couldn't drop it on a line back from the flag because it put me farther back into th trees. I wanted to declare the ball unplayable and go back to the tee and be hitting 3 rather than playing my 4th ball out of the fairway for 8 but my friends said I couldn't do it because the ball had entered an area marked with red stakes. Is this true?
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09-17-2005 04:41 AM #48
- Join Date
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You can't hit a provisional if your ball goes into a lateral water hazard so your friends were right.
Rule 26
It is a question of fact whether a ball lost after having been struck toward a water hazard is lost inside or outside the hazard. In order to treat the ball as lost in the hazard, there must be reasonable evidence that the ball lodged in it. In the absence of such evidence, the ball must be treated as a lost ball and Rule 27 applies.
If a ball is in or is lost in a water hazard (whether the ball lies in water or not), the player may under penalty of one stroke:
a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or
b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or
c. As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole.
The ball may be lifted and cleaned when proceeding under this Rule.
Incidentally the area would seem to be wrongly marked. Trees are not a lateral water hazard.
A "water hazard" is any sea, lake, pond, river, ditch, surface drainage ditch or other open water course (whether or not containing water) and anything of a similar nature on the course.
A "lateral water hazard" is a water hazard or that part of a water hazard so situated that it is not possible or is deemed by the Committee to be impracticable to drop a ball behind the water hazard in accordance with Rule 26-1b.Last edited by AAA; 09-17-2005 at 07:49 AM.
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09-17-2005 09:09 PM #491dash1Guest
Thotho:
It depends whether you played the ball solely because it might be lost in the lateral water hazard (see Decision 27-2a/2) or whether you played the ball because it might be lost in the trees, that you didn't know was marked as a lateral water hazard (see Decision 27-2a/2.5).
http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/bo...7.html#27-2a/2
Based on your description, it sounds like Decision 27-2a/2 applies. If so, your second ball was not a provisional, nor were your third and fourth balls. You lie "7" in the fairway.
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