Slow Golf Rounds

[Colby]

el tigre

Again you missed my point. If I have never hit a 300 yarder off the tee should I wait until the group ahead is 300+ before I hit?

I my example the person has never hit more than 225 from the fairway, yet they still wait and then duff the shot.

I don't know about you, but I know withing 5-10 yards how far I usually hit a club. That's not saying it is always straight. I do know that I use a 7 iron to hit around 160. I would not pull out a 9 iron or 5 wood to hit that shot.

If I was 260 to the green on a par five, I know 99% of the time that I will never reach the green with my 3 wood. It would be a carrer shot if I ever did as I have not done it yet. Knowing that reaching the green is a long shot, I play to lay up, and I lay up at a distance where I can hit a full wedge in, or whatever club I feel comfortable with for that hole. I don't power down and try to smash the ball because the odds are that I will not like the result.

Somewhere in your group, and this gets back to ready golf, there is usually a person who hits a bit shorter than others, or someone who is not going for the green, and they can play "out of turn". If you are in a group where all of you can reach the green from 260, then you know what you are doing, and can compensate.

And wasn't that a CTP money win?

[el tigre]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Colby
[B] But if I catch a 300 yarder that rolls the last 20-40 yards up to a group, and I only usually hit 250-270, and that's off a tee, do I wait every time until the group ahead is 300+ away?


I don't think I misunderstood you at all. You asked a question, I gave you my answer - YES, YOU SHOULD WAIT!

Sure, I know my distances - but the longer the club, the larger the range. I might be +- 10 yards with a 7 iron, but with the driver it is more like +-30 yards. Judging by your statement above, you're about the same.

I just feel it is better to be safe than sorry, that's all - especially when hitting with the longer clubs.

[NoBack]

I would be a little concerned about slow play there, el tigre.......I just re-read colby's post and I beleive he was saying off the deck and 260 from the green for someone who hits it 225. If he waits till they clear the green and hits it well, I doubt he would reach it.

If he did and it rolled up to the green, I would turn and tip my hat for a shot well hit.

To wait in the middle of a fairway and 300 + yards away is for me and for most (I beleive) a waste of time, even if you can hit 270 off the tee with a driver. I too can it long from the deck but never that long. Maybe some can but the average?


My $0.02





(Double CTP winner and Proud Black Team Member)

[el tigre]

Okay, I'll try and explain it one more time ...

There is no standard for how far away you should be from the players in front of you on the course. Every player has different abilities, and only YOU know how far YOU can hit the club that YOU have selected to play. And that hold's true for EVERYONE on the course.

Apparently COLBY averages 250-270 with a driver, and can occasionally drive it 300 yards. If a golfer is 300 yards away from COLBY, they are outside HIS "average" distance but still "within HIS range" of HIS driver. Therefore, for safety's sake, I think COLBY should wait until they are more than 300 yards away when playing a driver off the tee.

MY range is completely different, and apparently so is Steve's. MY average is 220-230 with a driver, and MY top end is about 270 - I'VE never hit a 300 yarder EVER - so I have no problem hitting a driver off the tee when someone is 300 yards away. But if they're 270 yards away, I'LL wait a couple of minutes.

In short, it is not your AVERAGE distance that counts - it is the TOP END of the range that you can hit that club. And the longer the club, the further away that TOP END is going to be from your AVERAGE.

[Colby]

el tigre,

I do wait. I'm not the one in question here, and that is my point. I play as soon as I am able to.

My point was for approach shots. The one where I am on the tee and the golfer in question is in the fairway waiting to hit his once in a lifetime, impress the hell out of his buddies shot. They have never hit 225+ from the fairway and yet, on every hole, wait until the green clears 250+ yards away.

[jeffc]

I say wait. There is nothing more irritating than lining up a putt and hearing balls drop 20 yards short of the green. Even if it doesn't get all the way to the green there is the possibility that it could. If it's that close, wait till were off the green and then hit. There are a lot of conditions that affect a golf ball (wind, slope, firmness of fairways) that can make a ball go a lot further than you'd might normally hit it.

Same goes when you're in the fairway and balls roll up to where you are playing your shot from when the guys on the tee just hit.

When in doubt, wait. If you're that good that you can get it there, you should have no problems keeping up to the group ahead.

[Colby]

Once again,

It is not the good folfer who knows how far they hit, it is the inexperienced or unknowledgeable golfer out there on the 6 hour round. They think they hit much farther then the do, and should be hitting sooner than they do.

[NoBack]

Just got in from Falcon Ridge, even had time to stop for coffee and its 10:15 am.

Yes......2 guys, 18 holes, only 5 lost balls between us. Good thing we play early. No 5 hour round today.

btw ...... course in good shape, a bit wet but good shape.

[nice_lag]

Imagine, a Black Team member agreeing with a Green Team member... but I have to be on Colby's side on this one.

Generally, you know where you're going to land it, give or take 10-15 yards. My drives average 250-260 yds but I've been known to let one rip once in a while past the 300 yds and further if the roll and the wind are good. Do I feel like I'm slowing down play because I wait for people to clear the area?? Sometimes. But I'd rather do that than land one 20 yards from someone when he/she is getting ready to hit a shot.

Prime example... Cedarhill #1.. 320-325 yards, elevated tee. I will wait and hit last of my group because this year, I've landed 2 on the green. Is that called slow play??? I don't think so. I feel REAL bad though when I slice one or duff it to the ladies tee... (Does that mean I'm a bad golfer Colby.. be careful with the answer now... )

I think it comes down to knowing where you hit, practice good golf etiquette (put your cart at the right place, practice your shot while your partner is playing, etc...) Sure you can't avoid congestion sometimes but it's all part of the deal. And if you really can't stand it, get up early and play those early rounds. I guarantee you that you'll be back in the house in 4h30m or less... if not, maybe YOU are guilty of slow play...

[golfdoc]

Most golfers have an idea as to how far they hit the ball.

I think it is a bit ridiculous to expect that because you hit a 300 yrd drive ONCE, you should wait on every tee until the group ahead is past 300 yards.

If you average 250, wait until they are 270-280 then go ahead.
If someone in the group behind me hits a drive that goes 280 yards and rolls the last 40 up to my feet, then I can turn around and say "nice shot".

Now if they do it every hole, that's different. I played Cloverdale the other day, and the group ahead of me was, well let's say ambitious on the par 5's.

The 15th hole, par 5 measuring 460 that day, no wind at all. One huy up ahead, drove it around 200 yards down the middle. Most of the day he was hitting it 220 off the tee. This left him with around 240 over water, off the fairway. He waited and waited and waited. In all honesty, he never had a chance, and it was getting dark.

Best part of the day... Tee'd off at 4:20 and were off the course by 8:10.

[fathead]

I have listened to you guys all whine about Manderley and other courses. In my opinion it has nothing to do with tee times or which course you play, it all comes down to the golfers. I'm a low handicap golfer and i watch the groups in front of me two are in the woods one has his ball retriever in hand and one is actually playing. The ten minute tee time thing is nice just because it gives them more time to look for there balls. i don't care how good or bad a golfer you are the key word you must remember is "Ready Golf". I played manderley two saturday's ago at 6:37 and i was done three hours later. the reason Stonebridge and eagle creek are so much faster is not cause of their tee times or marshals they cost more so it brings out a better class of golfers. Not foursomes using all rental clubs.

[mr shank]

fathead - in the second line of your post you declare; "it has nothing to do with tee times or which course you play, it all comes down to golfers." Apparently, you are forced to watch the inept golfers in front of you with ball retriever, in woods etc. indicating it is the skill of the golfer that is to blame.
Then two lines later you say "i don't care how good or bad a golfer you are, the key word you must remeber is ready golf"
Since you are solving the slow play problem for us - which is it ? Poor golfers or good golfers not playing ready golf?
I'd also bet if you asked many beginner golfers they would have no clue about what playing "honours" golf means. Most weekend hackers I have seen putt out of order, hit at the same time etc. - they are playing ready golf even if they don't know it.
The simple fact of 10 minutes tee times is they DO speed up play.

[fathead]

my friends are inept golfers lucky if they can shoot 110. but none of them even own a ball retreiver and if they go in the woods they look for a second and then drop a ball and we can finish 18 in 3 hours.

[mr shank]

Okay now i'm really confused - first you imply slow play is caused by the less-skilled golfers in front of you, then you say it doesn't matter about skill level because it's ready golf that matters.
You now say it is YOUR group that is the unskilled golfers!?? Not only that, but you really think beginner golfers shouldn't carry a ball retriever or search for lost balls? Agreed, five minutes is way too long to have to look for a ball on a public course, but to abandon every ball you don't find right away...this could get a little costly for new golfers, no?

You also say Stonebridge & Eagle Creek bring out better golfers & that makes it faster, but at the same time you say you played in 3 hours at Manderley. The $$ = good golf formula doesn't always work either, I have seen many golfers at Tremblant shell out over $100 for a round & not even come close to breaking 100.

Maybe if you let your buddies look for their balls for a extra second or two they could cut down on penalty strokes & might actually be able to break 100. I won't even bring up the point that the penalty for a lost ball is stroke & distance which means they should be walking back to the spot the original shot was played from - hardly faster that looking for an extra 20-30 seconds & actually finding the ball.

[Andy4Par]

I would like to know the course you played that took only 3 hours to play 18 holes. I don't think you can even play 18 holes at a par three course in less than 4 hours. Maybe if you were playing by yourself with nobody else on the links...

[el tigre]

I've played 18 holes in 3 hours on several occasions at twilight or very early in the morning, playing by myself or with one other golfer on a fairly empty course. But a foursome on a busy course like Manderley - I find that hard to believe too.

[Kilroy]

A twosome with a cart and a clear course can play 18 in 3 hours easily. I have done it several times. A forursome would have to hussle, but it could be done. I have also played Cedarhill alone and walking in 2.5

[NoBack]

I beleive that a foursome can play a three hour round. Although, I dont know about a foursome shooting 110 can do it.

It has been done at Manderley many times, we can play at 6-630 and be home by 10am and on weekends. BUT you have to be there early and play ready golf for the mostpart.

You want under 4 hours? Play at normal speed, dont spend 10 minutes looking for balls (if you dont like loosing good balls, buy cheaper ones), mark scores on the next tee, park carts in between your green and the NEXT tee, walk straight to your ball and not to the other guy's ball to chat with and then to yours', and rake your buddie's sand trap while you wait for him to line up his putt or next shot. These things are good for all and will help speed things up..............

Now if we could all the courses to help with more visible yardage markers and the three colored flag system.

[statsfreak]

I can appreciate that no one enjoys rounds of over 4 1/2 to 5 hours, particularly when its hot. But on the other hand, I really don't want to go to a course or to play in a group which is obsessed with playing in under 4 hours. I'm out there to relax, have fun, and enjoy being in the company of others and in the outdoors doing something I enjoy.

Having said that, I agree with everything Steve said. If everyone in the group (and on the course for that matter) would just follow a few simple and logical approaches to playing the game there would be no problem playing in 4 hours even if you are walking. I've done it many times even with a foursome when the course is fairly open and everyone is paying attention to keeping the game moving.

[The Shtick]

and of course:

1. play early for a quick round or;
2. play later in the day and play the front 9 twice for a quick round.

If you are 2 players, you should have no problem teeing off at around 4:30 and in the clubhouse by 7:30 if you play the front 9 twice!

[mr shank]

You can do everything within your power to play fast but you can only go as quick as the group in front of you. Since we are using Mandereley as an example - last time I played there I teed off a few mintues before 7am & finished at 12:15! Over five hours for an early morning round. The only possible way you can have a three hour round is if there is nobody in front of you. Anytime I have been able to get going at a quick pace for the first few holes I invariably catch up to a group that is slower.
Statsfreak brings up a good point too - what is the purpose of rushing around the golf course? To get home & wash the cars, cut the grass etc? - no thanks, I'll wait on a tee box with my buddies any day.

[Bogey Golf]

I tend to agree with nice_lag, in particular. Golf etiquette is the key to speeding up play. A little common sense, and AWARENESS of your surroundings will have the greatest impact on speeding up play, as it affects all parts of the game, from tee to green.

Breaking speed of play down into discrete elements such as that discussed in this thread, while interesting, is only one small facet of the overall issue.

For me, so many small things contribute to slow play, that it may seem like I'm nitpicking, but taken in their totality, truly do add unnecessary minutes to every round, and frustration to the players behind.

Be early to the tee. Sometimes there's no one in front of you, and the starter will tell you to go, ahead of schedule.

You take mulligans? Carry a mulligan ball and extra tee in your pocket at all times.

Riding an electric cart? Park it on the path at the exit point from the green to the next tee.

Riding a cart, and in the sand by the green? Take your wedge, putter, and chipping iron with you to your ball.

Like to take several practice swings? Or more? Do it - out of line of sight - while one of the other players is hitting.

Pulling a cart? WALK down the fairway, don't amble. It's golf - not a Sunday stroll in the park.

Hit your ball in the middle of foot high fescue? Then think of fescue as water. The ball is LOST. Take a quick drop and play on.

While waiting for a player to putt, analyze your own pending putt while he is hitting, so you are ready to step up and address your ball immediately after he has putted.

When the last player is putting out, someone have the flag ready to put in the hole, not still lying on the ground 30 feet away.

For horrible golfers, pick up after your 8th shot, and move on. Take a snowman, and try again next hole.There is nothing more frustrating than watching a complete hack doggedly slash at the ball 16 times before finally holing out by accident.

When playing holes that lead from tee to an invisible fairway and green, please, please, DO RING THE BELL!

And...if you don't shoot 95 or less - do NOT use driver! (Fat chance of THAT ever happening, though).

My 2 lousy cents. If people just did these simple things, pace of play would improve tremendously...

[statsfreak]

It's a matter of always thinking about how to do everything you need to do to play the game properly and enjoyably, but in a manner which makes the most efficient use of the time needed to do that.

So thinking about your putt while others are putting, someone picking up the flag while the last person is putting, parking carts so you can exit the hole and get to the next tee with the minimum delay all are good suggestions.

However, having a reasonable look for a ball, even in situations which don't look promising, should not be out of the question. What I hate is guys who go in to look for their ball and don't seem to want to come out until they have a half dozen in their pockets. And no driver off the tee until you can shoot under 95!! Where's the fun in that ?

[Bogey Golf]

Well, Statsfreak.....

I kinda think that if you don't shoot under 95, and use a driver anyways, then you better be taking not much more than a "quick look".

Besides, upon sober reflection, if someone's using that 45 inch instrument of self-immolation on a regular basis, I am more than confident that they'll get the Search 'n Rescue routine down pat, in no time at all.....