Slow Golf Rounds

[NoBack]

I think we're getting a bit too technical now.

1-Make all courses tee off 10 minutes appart and wait till the group is on the first green for the next group to follow.

2-Add the colored flag system to EVERY course(blue in back/white in the middle/red for front hole position).

3-Get those marshalls out of the bush (looking for balls) and in their carts, keeping pace. Dont be wishy-washy and not say a thing to slow groups.

4-If you play before 10am and dont make the turn in under 2:15 hrs, bye bye!!

5-Add the clocks system if you like.

Also, we need more etiquette, not so greedy course owners and some intelligence and we will be fine.

[Carlos]

There really is only one thing that makes slow play move along outside of having marshals on every hole... and that is to make the group or groups that are playing slow pay more on their green fees depending on slow lenght of play and have them listed in the slow players black list.

First if everyone is given a 4:20 min time allowance then there is no penalty.

Second the first group to fall off this time schedule is penalized the additional fee and in accordcance to the delay.... 0-10 min equals $20, 11-20 min $40... and so forth.

Since only the first group gets penalized or any others in similar situations this will encourage them to keep up pace.......

How to implement you say.... easy you must have one credit card on your green fee booking that will also stipulate penalty that will be charged.....

Oh and yes it is per person per group adding to the motivation to play on time within the whole group.....

Last and not least the group goes on the "Slow Play " black list data base for courses to update and keep track off....

Is it radical or just practical to want to play a consistant even round of golf???

[Kilroy]

Carlos.
Interesting idea, but very radical. There is no way I would play at any course with a policy like that and I am certainly not slow.
Gad... can you imagine the backlash in here if a local course tried to do that? They would be pegged as "greedy" immediately, and boycotted I'm sure.
Have you seen this done anywhere?

[chad]

Great idea!!! (not) That would speed up play tremendously because nobody would play the course!!!!

[schmed00]

I believe the main reason for slow play is too many people stick to playing honour golf instead of ready golf. I always play ready golf and that seems to help, we also don't stand around on the tee box waiting until all four have hit and then discuss all the shots before getting ready to hit the next one. When I slice one into the woods I go directly over to where I wnet in and am looking for my ball while someone else is hitting even though I might be the one who is supposed to hit next. I just think pace would be better if everyone played ready golf.

[4jag]

I think we're getting a bit too technical now

This coming from someone affliated with a virtual golf community on an internet forum from a site that hosts an online booking service.

Actually, I think that the majority of slow golfers don't actually realize they are slow. How often do you finish your round and check the time before going geez, 4:45 minutes that was slow.

Anything that can be done whether it be time deadlines, marshalls, clocks or gadgets to keep pace of play in people's heads during their round will help.

[NoBack]

4jag I was talking about

carts use GPS to track the relative position of all golfers on the course from the pro shop

Just knowing that someone will know if I'm having a good day or a bad day just by where my cart has been is interesting to say the least.:crying

Carlos Additional charges???


Having a slow play data bank for proshops??

[larry]

Played Cobden on Sunday. 2 of us teed off at 2:15 and finished at 5:05. (We did ride) Only played through 2 groups. Some time you just get lucky.

[4jag]

It's kind of a reverse speeding ticket.

Instead of paying a fine for going too fast - the faster you go the higher the fine on the highway, you are penalized for going too slow on the golf course. The slower you are the higher the fine.

Repeat offenders eventually get their "golf licenses" or playing privileges suspended.

Another twist is paying by the hour (or quarter hour). Play as much golf as you can or feel like playing and then pay the appropriate fee. Sort of like go-carting or bowling. Some golf ranges already do this. Those who get done in 3:30 will pay less then those play for 5 hours.

Interesting concepts - sure to invoke a lot of emotions and publicity to any course who tried it.

[RailRoad17]

One of the main reasons that causes delay is when people spend a lot of time searching for balls. I usually just spend less than 2 minutes and just take a drop(without penalty) when I see people behind our group waiting for their turn.

If no one is waiting behind us, then I would spend more time and then take a drop(with penalty) if I didn't find my ball after around 5 minutes.

Of course I don't use expensive balls and therefore can afford this option.

[4jag]

RR17 - I guess you missed the whole thread on bending the rules.

Taking a cursory look and then dropping without penalty in the name of keeping up pace is a cop-out. I'm all for playing fast but 90% of the time you'll know after 1-2 minutes if the ball is findable or not. Usually you know right of the tee if the ball is deep woods or not. If you don't find it after a quick search and you didn't hit a provisional ball then you should drop and take 2 strokes, not 1 or none.

This isn't completely by the book but is a good compromise especially if there is something on the line whether it $$ or just bragging rights.

[JimmyW]

Just great. The one time I put my foot in my mouth and this becomes the hottest thread of the day :mad:

So we agree on the basics so far??

I STILL think that the best thing for courses, owners, and players is to have polite marshals reminding us that it's not your God-given right to add to your Dunlop ball collection while you're on the course. First half 2:15 or bye JW

Why don't courses send employees around in carts to remind players to keep up the pace of play. They could call themselves pace-keepers or rangers or marshalls! 4Jag

Get those marshalls out of the bush (looking for balls) and in their carts, keeping pace. Dont be wishy-washy and not say a thing to slow groups.

If you play before 10am and dont make the turn in under 2:15 hrs, bye bye!!

Add the clocks system if you like. Steve K

Anything that can be done whether it be time deadlines, marshalls, clocks or gadgets to keep pace of play in people's heads during their round will help. 4Jag

One of the main reasons that causes delay is when people spend a lot of time searching for balls. RR17

And sorry El Tigre, I haven't been to Casselview for two years, ever since Ol'Fart the Marshall and I had a disagreement as to how and why our foursome (my buddy and I paired w/ another two) being the third ones out that morning (6:15) were supposed to hurry to catch the first two pairs off at 6:00 and 6:07
Apparently there's no such thing as playing too fast at Casselview, even tho you're ahead of time according to the cute little reminders that were on the tee signs. Grandpa Marshall shot my round all to hell. (ever see a foursome play through a twosome??)
*Dan, I'm not dissing the course- just one of the employees. IMHO he was WAY out of line. Direct is one thing, impolite is another*

JW

[Kilroy]

Originally posted by JimmyW
*Dan, I'm not dissing the course- just one of the employees. IMHO he was WAY out of line. Direct is one thing, impolite is another*

I have no problem with that kind of comment . It's the posts that just vent or slam maliciously.

However, I would not miss out on a good course just because of a bozo marshal. I would have talked to the management. They cannot know what goes on out on the course unless they are told.

[Andy4Par]

Maybe courses have to only allow golfers with a good handicap to play. Now I'm not sure about handicaps but anyone that shoots 110-lower should be able to navigate most courses in Ottawa and surrounding with relative ease. I think most people that are slowing up play are regularly shooting 115-and up...A more difficult course should be allowed to refuse players with high handicaps from playing...there are courses available that are easier to play. Once a person gets more comfortable with their game then they can experience more demanding courses. Courses could also limit playing times for high handicappers as well.
When all is said and done though, most courses just want to make money...or they wouldn't overbook so much.

[el tigre]

Andy4Par, you are making the assumption that high handicap players are the main reason for slow rounds.

In my experience, it is not the ABILITY of the player that determines whether he/she plays a fast or slow round, it is their ETIQUETTE on the golf course, combined with proper management by the golf club. For example:

1) Players who play "ready" golf will ALWAYS play a faster round than those who do not, regardless of their handicap. Courses should make a point of encouraging "ready" golf, and explain what "ready" golf is with appropriate signage, etc.

2) Players who play a provisional ball when in doubt and only spend the 5 minutes or less allowed by rules to search for a lost ball will always play faster. While a high handicapper may lose more golf balls, it is the golfer that has himself and his buddies looking forever for his Titlist Pro V1 that is usually the culprit.

3) Courses who space tee times 7-8 minutes apart on weekends in June, July & August will always have slow play at some point. When the course is busy, this interval only works if EVERYONE is playing "ready" golf without any lost balls - an ideal situation that rarely occurs in the real world. One or two slow groups back up the entire day because there is not enough of an interval built in for the course to recover. How can you have 7-minute tee-off intervals when the Rules of Golf allow 5 minutes to search for a lost ball? A 200-yard par 3 can't be played by a foursome in 7-8 minutes under the best of conditions. When a course isn't busy they can get away with this, but when it is packed with foursomes all morning it is almost impossible NOT to have a slow round.

[McGavin]

I think El tigre has a real good point when he brings up the par 3's. There is no way that every foursome is gonna play a par 3 in 7 minutes and if that is how often that course is sending out groups... then you will have traffic.

Course layout may have a lot to do with it. Manderley is synonymous with slow rounds.... this course has 6 par 3's and 5 par 5's. 3 of which i would consider "reachable" meaning that at least one guy in the foursome will hit one out there and have to wait until the group ahead gets off the green.... leaving a group on the tee box waiting to hit. And ofcourse every group has to wait to hit on all 6 par 3's. Its easy to see how their 7 minute intervals REALLY don't work. If everybody hit under 100 and played "ready" golf I don't know if you could get foursomes coming in around 4 hours if you are sending guys out every 7 minutes.

Look at when they played the British Open at St. Andrews a few years back.... those guys were playing 5.5 hour rounds on Thursday and friday... why? Because they were slow? Because the course overbooked? It was all threesomes.... the problem was that all the par 5's (except 1) were reachable and even a few par 4's (which backs things up considerably).

Manderley has no business stacking groups like that on their golf course... if anyone plays there on a weekend between the hours of 9:00 and 2:00 you should expect at least five hours of golf...

JMHO

McGavin

[Carlos]

The point of the slow group pays is then the rest of the course though they will have been backed up will now know that slow groups will be penalized..

Its not meant as being greedy but just courteous for the many who know how NOT to play slow....

The extra charges of course help to promote the slow play rule throughout the course and add additional marshals..

Through my experience of playing with high,mid, low handicappers, as well as different gender and ages.... clearly its not this that determines slow play but the player themselves...
I have played with seniors (70 +) who were quicker than most because of their ability to "KISS"
Keep it simple stupid
Address ball
Hit ball
Chase ball
Adress ball
Hit ball
Chase ball......and on


I think most golfers who know they are in a slow round and the culprits behind this are penalized for it will enjoy their round knowing that
A) this group or groups will pay extra for their round for their disrespect to others...

B) will be listed and could face (if consistant infractions) banning.

In Europe some courses demand a Golf card grading provided only through local professionals that they have gone through a series of courses..one including golf etiquette and slow play awareness...

First course to incorporate that here will make a killing.... only good business sense.

[Colby]

I have seen on more than one occasion a low handicapper studying his putt as I am sitting on the fairway waiting to hit to the green. Ready golf helps a lot, but 2-3 minutes checking lines and then setting up just kills a round.

Another thing that I see is the guy who has hit one or two long balls in his life, has hit maybe 200 off the tee on a short par five or a long par four, has 250+ to the green and waits until the group is off the green. Then he hits his best three wood, yeah right it's usually a duff, and ends up hitting another shot to get on the green.

I've had the occasional ball roll up on me, and if the golfer who hit it is 230+ out on their approach shot, or 280+ off the tee, I don't mind too much once a round or something. Doing it all the time tells me that you can hit that far consistantly and you know it, and should wait until we move out of the way, but a freak shot, who cares unless of course it flies over you! A 'Fore' once in a while helps too.

[natgolfer]

A reality check is needed by the poster who slammed Greensmere for the 5 1/4 h round that he played. A normal weekend round there takes 4 1/2 h and as you played behind a small "family" tournament, it is understandable that the round would take longer. Your lucky it didn't take you 6 hours.

You asked for a refund. Are you nuts? The nerve of some people these days absolutely amazes me. Last time I looked a golf course charges fees based on the number of holes played (9 or 18 ) They don't charge by the hour. Get Real!

At the risk of sounding snobbish, because the average green fee player is a less proficient golfer than the average member, those of you who play "public" courses must expect longer rounds.

Slow play is not always caused by management and whatever organization that may be in place. Some courses, because of longer walks between greens and tees, narrow fairways with more punishing rough, severely sloped greens, etc., will naturally take longer to play. The reality is that slow play is caused by YOU.
Just move your keester, miss'en quick, play ready golf, mark your score after you have hit on the next tee, don't look at your putts from all angles, walk to your ball instead of gabbing down the middle of the fairway and save the beer for the 19th hole.

And, fathers/mothers, teach your kids how to play properly.

[em69]

Or...courses could place electrodes on a golfers body. When they start to slow down on the course, it emitts an electric shock.

That would get people moving wouldn't it?

[RailRoad17]

4jag

How is that any different from someone who moves the ball to get a better lie? Or hits a mulligan off the tee? Or uses an illegal club? Or grounds the club at sandtrap before hitting the ball?

Unless you're playing in a tournament where someone is watching your every move, I think everyone has cheated in some form or another.

Some courses are just awfully maintained that even if you know where the ball landed, is it sometimes nowhere to be found cause the grass are too thick, or the beaver has taken it (which we always say but I have never ever witness one being actually grabbed by them).

Your eye may also deceive you into thinking it landed in a spot when it actually ended up 20 yards somewhere else.

If I lose one into the woods or in the water, I usually take a penalty.

[jimrobin]

RR17

Take some time and read the form under the RULES thread
"How honest are you?".
And you think you're confused now!!!!!!
What's this USUALLY take a penalty?????

Poor Gary probably already has a gun to his head reading your post.

[RailRoad17]

Sorry, I meant to say ALWAYS takes a penalty!

I am totally confused with golf. I just picked it up last year and I am still a high handicapper. Have played with experienced golfers and I guess I should blame them for giving me a break since I was a beginner. Some of the instructions I have had are:

Poor drive - "take a mulligan, you're allowed two per round".
Poor lie - "move it to get a better lie. You're not Tiger Woods".
Missed a putt by a 1/2 feet - "It's a gimme".
Misfired chipped - "Ah, do it again. Grass is too dry"
Bunker shot - "Draw a circle around the ball and hit it from there".
Lost ball - "If you can find A ball, its not a penalty".

I am sure I can think of others.

[jimrobin]

RR17

I'm just kidding you. I don't care if you take a penalty or not, its just that under the thread "How honest are you." there was some controversy about bending the rules a little. You should take the time to read it.
A lot of guys stated ways to bend the rules a little to speed up play, and that went over like “a fart in church” with some.
Especially if you’re just new to the game I say make it enjoyable, after all you’re paying enough money to play, you might as well enjoy it.
And you're not holding up others.

[RailRoad17]

You can't fart in chruch??? Not even a silencer?? I did not know that!

I know a guy who says he shoots in the low 80s consistently. Then I found out why... He moves the ball all the time to get a better lie. Sometimes as far as 7 feet to get the trees out of the way!

[el tigre]

Sorry Colby, but I believe safety always comes first.

I normally drive around 220 - 230 yards, but I will crank one out at 250 - 270 yds occasionally - and if the group in front is in the 250 yard range I will always wait.

A golf ball can seriously injure someone, and to me that risk far outweighs waiting an extra 5 minutes. To me, if someone can bounce or roll a golf ball past me - then a slightly harder/better swing could have hit me with it on the fly. It only takes one ...

[mr shank]

i agree with el tigre, you have to assume you will hit the ball well on every shot. How many people have had a ball roll into or fly their group only to have the guilty party say : "wow, i've never hit it that far before" - i've heard that one several times.
Anyone who drives into me more than once or twice a round will have their ball end up in my pocket.
If you think there is a possiblity of driving into the group in front of you, then wait the extra minute before you hit. Chances are if they're that close you'll be waiting on the next shot anyway.

[Colby]

The long shot that I was talking about was a career shot. Or the golfer thinks he hits that long, but doesn't.

I wasn't advocating hitting the ball into people, far from it. But if I catch a 300 yarder that rolls the last 20-40 yards up to a group, and I only usually hit 250-270, and that's off a tee, do I wait every time until the group ahead is 300+ away? And off the deck, which is what I was talking about in my post, these guys who have never hit 250+ in their life so they wait forever, then they hit their shot, and one or two more to get on the green.

Also, I'm not talking about the golfer that knows the distance they hit their clubs. Yes there are some big hitters and those players know when to hit, and do when it is safe for them to hit. And that is the really the gist of what I was saying. Know when it is safe for you to hit, and know with some accuracy. If you have 200 to the green, and you hit your 5 wood that distance, of course don't hit. But if you are 260 to the pin, and the longest you have ever hit your 3 wood is 225, don't wait thinking you just might catch it right. You hold up the group you are with and those behind you for no valid reason beyond trying to impress your buddies with a "oops, I usually hit it that far!"

As for those that know how far they hit, and still pound it up into groups, those people should be forcefully detained. Or made to play with Team Black!

[el tigre]

Colby:

If we all knew exactly how far each shot was going to go and where the ball would land, this game would be easy!

I still feel that if you hit 250 - 270 off the tee, but occasionally hit a 300 yarder - then yes, you should wait until the group in front is 300+ yards away when you are hitting driver off the tee.

el tigre
(Team Black Money Winner!)

[Kilroy]

I can see this year's Team Green victory will remain in our hearts for some time.

Did I mention that the bad guy's leader said something to me about a rematch? I wonder what he thinks that would prove? I guess it proves they were soundly defeated and he wants to reclaim a small amount of dignity. I suppose we will have to give them that rematch... next year

"It sure is nice to be green" - Kermit the Frog