Need to have lies flattened on irons - opinions wanted

[1972Apex]

I've recently realized that I need flatter lies in my irons. I have a set of '72 Hogan Apexes that I hit exceptionally well. They are based on a 58* 5i and compared to them, all of my other sets seem to be too upright.
As an experiment I'd like to flatten the lies of my other sets to match the old Hogans but I'm not sure who to have do them. I could take them to a few places and have them done based on a 58* 5i, but ideally I'd like to work with someone who knows what they are doing and has a lie board. Someone who might understand why I think I hit the ball better with a flatter lie iron and who can look at my swing with the various sets and maybe confirm or unconfirm my theories. I also have 3 sets I need bent so I'll need a volume discount as well .
The sets I want to bend are the following:

Golfsmith ProForged blades - I think these are standard but it would not surprise me if they are 1 or even 2 degrees upright.

Hoffman Bailiwick Forged CBs - These are also supposed to be standard, but I think the lies are actually a bit all over the map.

MacGregor VIP Tour CB-92 Forged - Actually I doubt I'll ever seriously use these but I might get them done while we have the bending bar out. They appear to be standard loft and lies and pretty close in relation to each other.

Again, I have not measured any of these except for the 1972 Apexes, which I had blueprinted last year. I'm just going by eyeballing them club to club and comparing them to the Hogans and each other. Actual measured results may vary (and I'm quite curious to find out for sure).

If anyone has a loft and lie machine and wants to take a crack at one or two of these sets I'd love to hear from you. Or if you know someone with the above skills who can do them at a reasonable price I'd love to hear about them.

And if anyone has any opinions on my sanity or knows a bit about lies and bending clubs please feel free to chime in .

Oh, and if you have a loft and lie machine for sale I might just be interested in doing them myself

Reid

[Chieflongtee]

Reid. Are all these sets assembled the same length i.e 5 iron 38 inches.

[1972Apex]

No they are not Andre. I believe you are the person who assembled the Golfsmith blades and as I recall they are 38" for the 5i. They are at least a half inch and maybe 3/4 of an inch longer than the Hogans. Essentially though, the GS blade 5i is the same length as the Hogan 4i. The Hoffmans are exactly the same length as the Golfsmith blades. The MacGregors are exactly halfway in between the Hogans and the GS blades/Hoffman lengths.
I was thinking I might want to get the Hoffmans and the GS blades set one club up from the Hogans to compensate for the length difference, if that makes sense. Or go by what the lie board says. The Hogan 4i for example, is 57.5* and is exactly the same length as the 5i in the GS blades and Hoffmans, so I was thinking 57.5* or 58* for the 5i in those sets.

Reid

Reid. Are all these sets assembled the same length i.e 5 iron 38 inches.

[Big Johnny69]

Reid, what happened to the Acers? And where did you get the Macs? Do you have pics, it's an iron I am not familiar with?

[1972Apex]

Reid, what happened to the Acers? And where did you get the Macs? Do you have pics, it's an iron I am not familiar with?

I still have the Acer Pros Geoff. In fact they are in my backup/trunk bag right now. I'm not looking to bend those for two reasons. 1. Good luck trying to bend these more Than 2 degrees as they are made of the hardest steel known to man... 2. Despite the fact they are a 61.5* 5i (1.5*) upright, they do not set up upright to me. I think it's the rounded sole.
Anyway, for what they are they are fine as is. Plus they impervious to banging around in the trunk, perfect for Golfomax as the carpets don't even hint at wearing them, and would truly be a horrifying disappointment for any theif who broke into my car at work or overnight at home.
The Macs are fairly new arrivals. I picked them up as part of a recent swap. They are a nice standard sized forged cavity back made from '92-97. They replaced the Jack Nicklaus Personal irons (90-92) after Nicklaus left MacGregor, and are very similar to the JNPs. I also have the matching Jack Nicklaus 56* SW.
I am attaching mediocre pics I got off Ironfinders. My set is much nicer and has the gold and black lettering still in the cavities and on Forged in the USA CB-92. Also has more of a chrome finish than the satin finish in these pic.

Reid

[jvincent]

And if anyone has any opinions on my sanity or knows a bit about lies and bending clubs please feel free to chime in .

Oh, and if you have a loft and lie machine for sale I might just be interested in doing them myself

Reid

Bending forged clubs is very, very, easy. I've changed the loft on some 4-irons to make them stronger (after I took the 3-iron out of the bag) and was surpised at how easy it was.

If you truly want to bend all those sets I'd get a quote from some of the builders here and depending on what they want you may well be better off buying a decent loft/lie machine yourself.

You can probably get one for ~$500 so anything close to that for one set of bends x 3 is worth it since you will probably bend them more than once.

[Kona Golf]

"Bending forged clubs is very, very, easy. I've changed the loft on some 4-irons to make them stronger (after I took the 3-iron out of the bag) and was surpised at how easy it was."[I]

This is the reason they should be checked annually! Unlike cast heads, forged heads are much softer and can easily be bent out of shape, unknowingly, as you play.

Most proshops that offer custom clubs usually will have a L/L machine.

If you want one of your own, Keep checking Ebay. I got mine for $300 cdn!

Jim

[dbleber]

Most places charge $5/club...so do the math to see if it is worth your while. If you want to confirm the lie angle, put some masking tape and hit off a mat at the range. Where the tape rips should tell you if you are to upright or just right. The lie angle has to be pretty messed up to have that big of an impact on your ball flight.

[1972Apex]

Thanks for all the tips so far. I have done the math LOL!, and while it would be cheaper to have them bent than to purchase a loft/lie machine... I go thru a lot of clubs, so on an annual basis alone it would be worth it.
As for checking the lies with masking tape, that I have already done and I know they are too upright, it's just how upright they are that remains a mystery.
As for it affecting my ballflight, well we're looking at at least a 3-4 degree change here so I think that would be more than enough to affect the ballflight. Plus I find I have to come at the ball from much more over the top with the newer sets due to the upright lies.
Thanks again and keep the info coming!

[Andru]

2 degrees affects you ball flight. believe me getting custom fitted fixed almost everything. Except my brain. Too bad there's no "Stop making stupid decisions" adjustment machine.

[cruxradio]

Does anyone here have a lie/loft machine who would do adjustments? I need to change the lie and loft of a few irons.

[Chieflongtee]

Does anyone here have a lie/loft machine who would do adjustments? I need to change the lie and loft of a few irons.

I do now Joe.

[clubfixer]

"Plus I find I have to come at the ball from much more over the top with the newer sets due to the upright lies."

You might want to have your swing checked by a professional first before bending. To steep of a swing and an outside in path can fool your lie angle test. You might want to re-check while making an inside out swing to see if you get a consistent reading.

Just my 2 cents...

[KickerOfElves]

Golfsmith ProForged blades - I think these are standard but it would not surprise me if they are 1 or even 2 degrees upright.

Wouldn't surprise me either, as I took mine in to the nearby shop to have them bent 2* up and they told me they already were.

These probably come 2* up compared to "standard".

[Chieflongtee]

It's best to do each and everyone of them individuallyand dynamically. Don't forget tolerances are +-1 on lofts and lies.

[downhillslider]

There is no mention of what shafts are used in the various sets.This is key in a dynamic fitting. Diffeent shafts will yield different results, as will different lentghs. Be prepared to spend some time on the range to remedy this situation. Also make real sure that whoever is going to be the lottery winner with this job does it correctly. There is a lot more to adjusting lofts and lies than just clamping a club in the machine and bending it. You are beeing ripped off if you do not get each and every club measured before and after the bend buy not using a quality golfclub measuring gauge. A good one goes for #500.00+. I say this because most places use the actual bending machine to do the measuring, and that is so wrong ! Not every club as the same style of sole , so the only way to get a true measurment is with the club in the playing position and you don,t get this with a bending machine.

PM SENT.