Punched and top dressed greens

[BOMBER]

Just wondering if people could give their input on which courses they played recently who had top dressed or punched greens.

I played Nation the other day with a friend of mine because he likes the course. It was in good shape but 95% of the greens were punched.

Any opinions on courses giving discount rates when their greens have holes in them that make it like playing a game of Plinco on Price is Right?

[jvincent]

Punched greens are an unfortunate fact of life.

Once the course tells you that there will be punched greens when you book, I don't think they should give you any break. It would be a nice gesture if they did, but not a requirement.

[NoBack]

Punched greens are an unfortunate fact of life.

Once the course tells you that there will be punched greens when you book, I don't think they should give you any break. It would be a nice gesture if they did, but not a requirement.

Unfortunately not all courses give that information when you book a tee time. You only find out when you get there.
That being said, I agree that it is neccessary at all courses in order maintain good greens. Usually only a factor for a week with proper watering. This is good for us golfers.

[BOMBER]

Unfortunately not all courses give that information when you book a tee time. You only find out when you get there.
That being said, I agree that it is neccessary at all courses in order maintain good greens. Usually only a factor for a week with proper watering. This is good for us golfers.

I totally agree it's a necessity and good for the course. On the other hand, it's a totally different game of golf when the greens are punch or top dressed and I think that courses should inform you when you want to book a time instead of getting to the first green and having to read 300 breaks.

[jvincent]

If they do a good job of the punching and top dressing, the greens will still roll pretty well.

Yes, you'll get a little bit of Plinko action when the ball is going slow, but for the most part I find I make/miss the same number of putts.

Remember, for every bounce that sends you away from the hole there's one that is sending you in.

[BOMBER]

If they do a good job of the punching and top dressing, the greens will still roll pretty well.

Yes, you'll get a little bit of Plinko action when the ball is going slow, but for the most part I find I make/miss the same number of putts.

Remember, for every bounce that sends you away from the hole there's one that is sending you in.

In I'd say 99% of the rounds I've played where the greens have been punched, I wouldn't sya I make or miss the same number of putts. That would make no sense unless you close your eyes and putt.

Either way, the issue of a course letting you know about conditions before you fork over $50 for green fees is still on the table if they aren't offering discounts. I mean they offer you discounted rates at different times of the year so I don't see what the problem would be to discount their green fees for a certain number of days once they've punched them.

[Sakuraba]

The course in Chicago which hosts (hosted?) the Walker Cup this year had an interesting bit on the golf channel with the superintendant.

He said he is often asked by the members "will there ever be a year when we don't aerify the greens?"
His reply: "perhaps the year I retire"
This superintendant's opinion was that if you don't aerify you get very soft greens that are too easy to hit and stick, and on average it should be done at least twice a year. I don't think you'll get too many courses offering discounts, but just ask when you book yout time

[BOMBER]

The course in Chicago which hosts (hosted?) the Walker Cup this year had an interesting bit on the golf channel with the superintendant.

He said he is often asked by the members "will there ever be a year when we don't aerify the greens?"
His reply: "perhaps the year I retire"
This superintendant's opinion was that if you don't aerify you get very soft greens that are too easy to hit and stick, and on average it should be done at least twice a year. I don't think you'll get too many courses offering discounts, but just ask when you book yout time

Our course used to do it twice a year. It's definately not something that they should avoid but I think if a course can give discounts for 'spring conditions', and some even 'fall conditions', it wouldn't hurt to discount a green fee for a couple of days while the ground grows back in.

[Colby]

This is the time a lot of courses are punching greens. Call ahead for the next few weeks.

[el tigre]

What I don't understand is why almost every course does all 18 holes at the same time?

Why not do 9 holes, then wait a week or two and do the other 9 holes? Or even 4-5 holes at a time, spaced a week apart? Some courses do spread out the work this way, and let me tell you it is much more bearable than being the unlucky guy who happened to book the wrong weekend and has to suffer through an entire 18 holes of bumpity-bump.

[BOMBER]

What I don't understand is why almost every course does all 18 holes at the same time?

Why not do 9 holes, then wait a week or two and do the other 9 holes? Or even 4-5 holes at a time, spaced a week apart? Some courses do spread out the work this way, and let me tell you it is much more bearable than being the unlucky guy who happened to book the wrong weekend and has to suffer through an entire 18 holes of bumpity-bump.

I couldn't agree with you more. Atleast if you could play one of the 9's without punched greens it would be a little more bearible.

[Kilroy]

Quicker they are done the quicker they are back to normal. Do it in groups of 3's and you've got 3 punched greens for months

[Sakuraba]

As a rotten putter, I think I put better on freshly punched greens, it takes the pressure off, and provides an effortless excuse for missed short ones.

Also, sometimes you can get your fcs to agree to maximum 2 puts on any green! Unless, they know who they're playing with.

[1972Apex]

Punched greens are just a necessary evil of golf, like slow play and dry or wet weather. It has to be done.
Personally, I just deal with it and don't expect a discount. it's really only a problem if poorly done.

[BC MIST]

It would be great if courses would inform daily players when they call for tee times that aeration is in progress and give a little discount for a week or so while the greens fill.

However, the sooner all greens are done, the better. The greens must be dry and to spread the process over three weeks may not be possible if the weather patterns change. (Not likely this year) It is a lot easier for the greens staff to prepare and organize the aeration process once, instead of three times and it is my understanding that many courses have to borrow or rent a machine that does the aeration and so the work must be done over the shortest time possible. The majority of courses do the aeration now, usually with a small tynes, so there must be a good reason. This time of the year it is becoming a little cooler overnight and the plant's roots start to grow more downward in the late summer in order to be healthy enough to survive the winter. Many clubs also aerate in late October with a larger tyne and then shut down for the season.

If the greens are dragged and a sandy top dressing applied properly, then the amount of bumpiness is reduced. In fact, after the top dressing is put down green speed usually goes up, making it easier to make putts. Unfortunately, some courses just pull and remove the plugs without trying to smoothen out the surface afterword.

[Shivas Irons]

Any opinions on courses giving discount rates when their greens have holes in them that make it like playing a game of Plinco on Price is Right?

Yup.
The short game is at least half the game of golf itself & greens that are pucnhed & top dressed are pretty much impossible to one putt or get up & down on. Offer me half the course and I offer you half the green fees.
There is a course near Winchester (I won't mention the course name) that I brought a relative from New Zealand to & when we got out on the course we found the greens were punched & top dressed. We were charged full price & there was no mention of this before we began. Needless to say I haven't been back to that course.

[GarthM]

OK small rant here...... EVERY SINGLE year in the SPRING and FALL all well maintained courses AERATE AND TOP-DRESS THEIR GREENS!!!!!! We all know this since it happens EVERY YEAR and EVERY YEAR people seem to complain about it AGAIN. Why not just ask if they have punched their greens or plan to before you show up??? Does not seem to be too much trouble really. IMHO if you are too lazy to ask when you call then you get what you get.

OK I'm done.....

Happy golfing

[NoBack]

Amazing isnt it garth
was thinking the same thing this morning when I saw it.

[BOMBER]

OK small rant here...... EVERY SINGLE year in the SPRING and FALL all well maintained courses AERATE AND TOP-DRESS THEIR GREENS!!!!!! We all know this since it happens EVERY YEAR and EVERY YEAR people seem to complain about it AGAIN. Why not just ask if they have punched their greens or plan to before you show up??? Does not seem to be too much trouble really. IMHO if you are too lazy to ask when you call then you get what you get.

OK I'm done.....

Happy golfing

Well not all courses top dress or aerate their greens at the exact same time for one, and two, it shouldn't be up to the golfer to ask whether or not it's being done. That information should be something the course provides for you as a 'heads up' or common courtesy. When you're a member at a private course that information is provided to you in a newsletter weeks before or even at the beginning of the year. I'm pretty sure it's not a huge deal for the pro shop worker to let people know when they call.

[Colby]

Well not all courses top dress or aerate their greens at the exact same time for one, and two, it shouldn't be up to the golfer to ask whether or not it's being done. That information should be something the course provides for you as a 'heads up' or common courtesy. When you're a member at a private course that information is provided to you in a newsletter weeks before or even at the beginning of the year. I'm pretty sure it's not a huge deal for the pro shop worker to let people know when they call.

OK, so let's say you call Emerald Links for a tee time for the next Wednesday. The person answering the phone may or may not know that the greens will be punched sometime next week, depending on the weather, it may or may not be done, that's the head greenskeeper decision. Say he knows. He says to you that the plan is to punch and top dress the greens Monday. Do you book, or call elsewhere? And if you are booking online, you wouldn't know that anyways. So you say, thanks, I don't want the tee time and the greens don't get punched until the Thursday. The course may miss out on revenue between the Monday and Thursday.

That's just a hypothetical situation, but for public courses that rely on getting the most traffic through a relatively short season, losing a few days can really hurt. As Garth mentioned, in the spring and fall, call a day or so in advance, punching the greens is nothing new.

[el tigre]

Why not just ask if they have punched their greens or plan to before you show up??? Does not seem to be too much trouble really. IMHO if you are too lazy to ask when you call then you get what you get.

Unfortunately I book 90% of my rounds through the internet, and therefore do not talk to anyone in the pro shop. By the time I show up at the course and find out, it is too late to cancel and my credit card will be charged for the round whether I play it or not.

Not that it is a big deal for me anyway - I'm already getting a huge discount as an OG Club member. I just wish more clubs would only do 9 holes at a time. I realize that doubles the amount of time the course is aerating some of the greens, but personally I would rather take a bigger risk on playing 9 punched greens than reducing the risk but having your putting game totally ruined if you are unlucky enough to pick the wrong date.

[BOMBER]

OK, so let's say you call Emerald Links for a tee time for the next Wednesday. The person answering the phone may or may not know that the greens will be punched sometime next week, depending on the weather, it may or may not be done, that's the head greenskeeper decision. Say he knows. He says to you that the plan is to punch and top dress the greens Monday. Do you book, or call elsewhere? And if you are booking online, you wouldn't know that anyways. So you say, thanks, I don't want the tee time and the greens don't get punched until the Thursday. The course may miss out on revenue between the Monday and Thursday.

That's just a hypothetical situation, but for public courses that rely on getting the most traffic through a relatively short season, losing a few days can really hurt. As Garth mentioned, in the spring and fall, call a day or so in advance, punching the greens is nothing new.

Well for one, it's not like the head greenskeeper just out of the blue decides on a whim. Like I mentioned before, our club used to give us dates quite a while in advance in a newsletter or bulletins in the club, or, most cases, give us dates in our members book before the season even started. That being said, it's not like that can't be posted in the pro shop where people work all day for them to mention to customers that they have punched greens.

On public courses losing too much money...I don't think if they discounted their green fees for a few days they would be 'losing' that much money. It's not like these courses are not making a killing charging $75 a round plus $35 for a power cart etc...AND, it's not like people won't come back and they will lose their customers forever because they punched their greens.

[Golfbum]

When the super areated our greens last fall he did a great job. We played while they were actually areating some of the greens.

I changed putters, started using my TM Monza and man I putted lights out on those greens!

Funny we whine if we have to putt on poor greens, and some whine when they have to putt on areated greens. Remember one thing here, everyone in your foursome is putting on the same greens.

What about areated fairways? Has to be done, tee blocks too. Hey boys it is all part of owning and maintaining a golf course. When you come back to play that course next summer and say "Wow these greens are in great shape" remember how they got into that condition.

[faldo]

Have we checked with Renfrew for our Tour Stop this weekend????

[Kilroy]

No, and it won't matter either way. We're all playing the same conditions, whatever they are.

Lots of rain today to fill the ponds. Should improve conditions at the drier courses and give them some water to use for some time to come

[BOMBER]

When the super areated our greens last fall he did a great job. We played while they were actually areating some of the greens.

I changed putters, started using my TM Monza and man I putted lights out on those greens!

Funny we whine if we have to putt on poor greens, and some whine when they have to putt on areated greens. Remember one thing here, everyone in your foursome is putting on the same greens.

What about areated fairways? Has to be done, tee blocks too. Hey boys it is all part of owning and maintaining a golf course. When you come back to play that course next summer and say "Wow these greens are in great shape" remember how they got into that condition.

It really doesn't matter if all of your foursome is putting on the same greens unless you're competing against them. All that means, is all four people are paying to play on poor greens.

It's easier for you to say 'whining' and would have been for me also when I had my membership, because you don't pay 'per round', one fee and you play all you want. I don't think it's a matter of whining anyway. It was just a subject that most people feel should be discussed because the price of a green fee is only going up each year, not decreasing.

[Kilroy]

It was just a subject that most people feel should be discussed because the price of a green fee is only going up each year, not decreasing.

If you are concerned about greens being punched, book by phone and ask when you book.

You only want to play only courses in perfect condition while you are here. That is understandable. We started a thread where people are posting recommendations. I'd suggest you look there instead of starting threads looking to rally golfers against local facilities.

[BOMBER]

If you are concerned about greens being punched, book by phone and ask when you book.

You only want to play only courses in perfect condition while you are here. That is understandable. We started a thread where people are posting recommendations. I'd suggest you look there instead of starting threads looking to rally golfers against local facilities.

HAHA!! I didn't start this thread to rally golfers against local facilities actually. I started the thread to discuss the topic in general. I was curious as to what people thought about the subject because I've come accross quite a few people in the past few weeks that joined our twosome with the same concern. I wondered if this was the majority's feeling, or if there were a select few who had this opinion.

I still think it's a piece of information that should be offered up rather than something that the golfer should have to ask for. I don't see how that opinion is "rallying" golfers against local golf courses.

[Kilroy]

Seems to me that in this thread and another you started (that I had to remove) your goal has been to do start a "stay away" list so that you could avoid those courses during your visit.

Conditions change. After today the dry courses will not be dry. Ponds will be topped up so full course watering can resume. The "stay away" list would live on forever, coming up in forum searches for years to come. One stupid rant can negatively affect a facility for a long time.

[Shivas Irons]

Why not just ask if they have punched their greens or plan to before you show up???

Why is it up to the customer to ask?
The course should offer this information & let you decide. The only reason course's don't offer this information is they know there is a good chance you will go elsewhere.
I don't think anyone has a problem with top dressed or punched greens, but I do have a problem when I pay full price & I don't find out about it until I reach the first green. That's just a rip-off, plain & simple.