Crosby or Ovechkin?

[mberube]

Ovechkin 2 / Crosby 0
Two periods into the new season...lol

Ovechkin is AWESOME!!!! Almost tempted to stop watching Leafs/Sens.

Dan

Two goals on your first night is impressive. What’s the name of the goalie for Columbus again? Pascal Leclaire!!!! Isn’t he the second goaltender?

Crosby is playing the best in the league.

Dan! 81 games to go!

[broken27]

Two goals on your first night is impressive. What’s the name of the goalie for Columbus again? Pascal Leclaire!!!! Isn’t he the second goaltender?

Crosby is playing the best in the league.

Dan! 81 games to go!

Whatever... Give credit where credit is due. I didn't say anything bad about Crosby, I simply pointed out how awesome Ovechkin is...

Leclaire as also drafted 8th overall, so he can't be all that much worse than Marc Denis...

Dan

[wopstergolf]

I think through just the first few games of the season, though Crosby is leading the battle between them in points, I think that Ovechkin has been the more impressive player.

Plus his team has won a couple games.

[jonf]

Sid the Kid is on tv tonight taking on the Canadiens. Don't know about you, but I can't wait. He hasn't disappointed so far. Lots of points, but more importantly, he's exciting to watch. This will be a good one.

[davevandyk]

I've said it all along, Crosby might get more points, but Ovechkin is way more exciting to watch and much more valuable to his team. However I think Crosby will end up being the Rookie of the Year because he has the supporting cast that Ovechkin doesn't have, therefore he will likely get much more assists then Ovechkin.

I do believe that Ovechkin will lead all rookies in goals.

The real rookie to watch is Phaneuf in Calgary, gonna be one of the leagues' best dmen in a couple of years!

[broken27]

Crosby will win because he's from Canada. It's really that simple. Ovechkin's marketability is limited due to his pathetic English. Plus, sports media vote on the awards, and most of the people who get votes have already basically cast theirs.

Not going to watch Crosby tonight. Can't stand PIT, and not a Habs fan. Will be watching Jagr and company destroy the Lightning as they play some charity case goalie...

Dan

[jonf]

Ovechkin will get more goals, there's no question. As for who's more fun to watch, its hard to say. Ovechkin is incredibly skilled, and can shoot the puck like nobody's. I can't remember who they were playing a few weeks ago, but I remember seeing Crosby either split the D or overpower a D-man to earn a penalty about 5 times in a game. As for the calder, its true, as long as the two are close in total points, crosby will get the votes. Either way, it's going to be fun watching these kids for the next few years.

Also have to agree on Phaneuf - great shot, great hitter, and he's got the passion for the game. Couldn't help but laugh when he tumbled over his stick after challenging a fight the other night. Don't know about anyone else, but that first Canucks - flames game, despite being 1-0, was the most entertaining game of the year in my books. Great goaltending, lots of chances, tons of hitting, and a few good scraps too - the kind of fights that meant something - weren't just fights for the sake of fights. Good to see that there is still some of the old NHL left in the new NHL

[davevandyk]

Crosby will win because he's from Canada. It's really that simple. Ovechkin's marketability is limited due to his pathetic English. Plus, sports media vote on the awards, and most of the people who get votes have already basically cast theirs.

Not going to watch Crosby tonight. Can't stand PIT, and not a Habs fan. Will be watching Jagr and company destroy the Lightning as they play some charity case goalie...

Dan

The way you are talking, you would said Ovechkin should win because he's from Russia. I actually believe that Ovechkin is more marketable than Crosby because he's a lot flashier and, as of so far, has much better moves!

[broken27]

Let me be the first to say that Crosby shootout goal was great.

Dave - I don't think Ovechkin is nearly as marketable as you think. Sure, in Washington he is, but the fact that he flipped off the North Dakota arena during the WJHC last year isn't going to help.

Besides, it's about votes, and if you read any of the guys who actually get to vote, Crosby's pretty much got it all wrapped up. It would take an injury, or a remarkable slump for him to lose it, regardless of point totals or value to a team on the ice.

Cheers,
dan

[Golfbum]

Did Jose go back and get his jock strap after Crosby scored in the shootout? Man what a beauty and I am not a Crosby fan, but he undressed Theodore. Where was that move last year in the Memorial Cup Final against London?

[The Shtick]

Well, I don't post much in these forums anymore but I agree with Dan here. Ovechkin should win the Calder if the season ended right now.

If Crosby gets more points than Ovechkin and his team still sucks, he wins. Makes no sense to me if Washington has a more improved record and Ovechkin keeps finding the net.

Remember, Crosby has other good players to feed and receive passes from. Washington has nobody to support Ovechkin yet he still makes things happen and in my mind, he gets my MVP vote amongst rookies.

Isn't the Calder awarded to the player who has made the biggest impact in his first season of play??

[broken27]

Isn't the Calder awarded to the player who has made the biggest impact in his first season of play??

Not usually, and that's the problem. It's why you see more forwards win than any other position by far... When defencemen win, it's usually because they get a lot of points and their +/- rating is solid (usually from a mid-level to good team). Goalies seldom win, of course Andrew Raycroft won recently, and it's because it's rare for a rookie goalie to be a starter, and then even more rare for him to be an effective starter. I.e - situation dictates probability.

The Calder Trophy (in spirit) is to recognize the "most OUTSTANDING rookie". I guess in a literal sense, Crosby wins hands down because of all the exposure he gets. But if Ovechkin can keep lighting the lamp in the way he does (man he scores some nice goals), he'll make it a two horse race.

I don't see anyone else getting into the picture unless they have an AMAZING season and the big two crap out a little.

The biggest problem is evaluating defencemen and goalies in the new league, so you can rule out Dion Phaneuf or Andrei Meszaros right there.

Dan

[dbleber]

I think this conspiracy theory is getting kind of old. The winner of the Calder will the rookie who has the most points, that's usually the way it goes except in rare cases like Raycroft as already mentioned. To think that Ovechkin won't win because they are out to get him is just stupid and show nothing but ignorance. There have been plenty of Non-Canadian winners, it just happens to be a great season for rookies this year with arguably the best rookie class ever. The 2 front runners are obviously Crosby and Ovechkin. Now Ovechkin has shown that he is very talented and can score some big league goals, but there is more to hockey then just lighting the lamp. Crosby has done his fair share of pretty moves and goals but has been more effective in showing his hockey sense and true talent of the game with making wicked plays. To me the two have different styles, but as of now Crosby wins he has what 19-20 points? That's more then Ovechkin plain and simple. It is 2 early to pass out the trophy yet, if at the end of the season Ovechkin has more points or scores a crazy amount of goals he'll win. If Crosby has more points (goals or assists, they all count) then he'll win and should win. It just doesn't get any simpler then that. Now give the conspiracy theories a rest, I said it before but it is really scary that a "reporter" would be this bias and narrow minded.

[The Shtick]

Crosby has done his fair share of pretty moves and goals but has been more effective in showing his hockey sense and true talent of the game with making wicked plays. To me the two have different styles, but as of now Crosby wins he has what 19-20 points? That's more then Ovechkin plain and simple. It is 2 early to pass out the trophy yet, if at the end of the season Ovechkin has more points or scores a crazy amount of goals he'll win. If Crosby has more points (goals or assists, they all count) then he'll win and should win. It just doesn't get any simpler then that. Now give the conspiracy theories a rest, I said it before but it is really scary that a "reporter" would be this bias and narrow minded.

Okay, Crosby SHOULD get more points because he has solid talent on his team (Lemieux, LeClair, Palffy, Rechhi). These guys are all proven scorers.

Ovechkin is a lone sniper on his team. He's scored 12 of the team total 36 goals so far and he's the only player on his team who has more points than games played (17pts, 15 gp). Pittsburgh has 4 players who fall into that category.

Who does Ovechkin have that can help him generate points (ala Crosby)?? Steve Eminger? Dainius Zubrus? Jeff Halpern?

Give me a break. Ovechkin seems to fit OUTSTANDING more than Crosby. Simple enough?

[jonf]

Doesn't it strike you as OUTSTANDING that crosby is outscoring the likes of recchi, leclair, palffy, and LEMIEUX, one of the absolute best players of all time? Also, who was Crosby's second linemate last night? Christensen? Granted, he's playing with better players than Ovechkin, but Crosby is improving those around him - the same can't be said for Ovechkin.

[broken27]

I think this conspiracy theory is getting kind of old. The winner of the Calder will the rookie who has the most points, that's usually the way it goes except in rare cases like Raycroft as already mentioned. To think that Ovechkin won't win because they are out to get him is just stupid and show nothing but ignorance. There have been plenty of Non-Canadian winners, it just happens to be a great season for rookies this year with arguably the best rookie class ever. The 2 front runners are obviously Crosby and Ovechkin. Now Ovechkin has shown that he is very talented and can score some big league goals, but there is more to hockey then just lighting the lamp. Crosby has done his fair share of pretty moves and goals but has been more effective in showing his hockey sense and true talent of the game with making wicked plays. To me the two have different styles, but as of now Crosby wins he has what 19-20 points? That's more then Ovechkin plain and simple. It is 2 early to pass out the trophy yet, if at the end of the season Ovechkin has more points or scores a crazy amount of goals he'll win. If Crosby has more points (goals or assists, they all count) then he'll win and should win. It just doesn't get any simpler then that. Now give the conspiracy theories a rest, I said it before but it is really scary that a "reporter" would be this bias and narrow minded.

I don't really want to get into this with you, but you're really getting on my nerves with your babble.

From NHL.com:

Calder Memorial Trophy is an annual award given to the player selected as the most proficient in his first year of competition in the National Hockey League. The winner is selected in a poll of the Professional Hockey Writers' Association at the end of the regular season.

Have you READ anything written by these PHWA members? They're already giving Crosby the award.

It's not a conspiracy theory, it's reality. It has little to do with nationality, in Crosby's case, but it has something to do with it in a roundabout way. Media votes are localized to Canada and USA. Who are we assaulted with in the press each day? Crosby.

Dan

[dbleber]

Nope! Washington is doing just fine this year. Is that ALL Ovechkin? Give me a break, it's a team game and until he can stay out for 60 mins and get every point for his team then your just wrong. This reminds me of the old Gretzky/Lemieux debates. Should Mario be considered equal to Wayne because Wayne had a better team around him? Or is it Wayne by reading the play and giving the guys the puck, make them better? Lemieux is a better natural goal scorer but Gretzky will always be remembered as the best to play the game until someone breaks his records. I don't see Ovechkin doing that, but Crosby.....hell Wayne himself thinks so. I find it funny how the guys who spouted off the most garbage about how great Ovechkin is and how he was going to kill Crosby, have to now cling to conspiracy theories and lame excuses. Now the other funny thing is that I recognize both talents and will agree with Ovechkin winning if he does so by getting more points or a lot of goals and I will agree with Crosby winning if he gets more points. But making excusses and theories as to why Ovechkin should be the number 1 rookie is just really funny (or stupid)! Enough simple?

[dbleber]

They are giving him the award because as of now he would win and deserve to do so! He has more points! What else do you want the kid to do? If anybody has made their mind up about who should win the Calder I think it is you and Crosby could break every record, get more points and jump up and down and spit nickels. Ovechkin would still be the victim of some injustice. Whatever...........

[spackler]

If Crosby continues to score at his current pace, he'll end up with 29 goals, 68 assists and 97 points. If Ovechkin continues to score at his current pace, he'll end up with 66 goals, 27 assists and 93 points. Who wins if the numbers end up something like that? Everyone who's a fan of hockey. But 66 rookie goals beats 97 rookie points any day when it comes trophy time.

[davevandyk]

Of course you are right, eventhough goals are worth the same as assists, that's not really how it works. Goals are much more important that assists, and i think even if he finished with 56 goals and 83 points, i believe he would still win it!

[dbleber]

That's it exactly. If Ovechkin does something like that and scores a crazy amount of goals, he will when despite Crosby having more points. But if it's something more realistic like 35 goals 30 assists and Crosby is at 25 goals 50 assists Crosby will win. Most points will take it unless someone does something extraordinary to tip the balance.

[tonytutone]

take crosby if mario is healthy crosby will get alot of points plus as the season moves along and the ref's stop calling everything the russian will find it a little tougher to get points.

[mberube]

I think this conspiracy theory is getting kind of old. The winner of the Calder will the rookie who has the most points, that's usually the way it goes except in rare cases like Raycroft as already mentioned. To think that Ovechkin won't win because they are out to get him is just stupid and show nothing but ignorance. There have been plenty of Non-Canadian winners, it just happens to be a great season for rookies this year with arguably the best rookie class ever. The 2 front runners are obviously Crosby and Ovechkin. Now Ovechkin has shown that he is very talented and can score some big league goals, but there is more to hockey then just lighting the lamp. Crosby has done his fair share of pretty moves and goals but has been more effective in showing his hockey sense and true talent of the game with making wicked plays. To me the two have different styles, but as of now Crosby wins he has what 19-20 points? That's more then Ovechkin plain and simple. It is 2 early to pass out the trophy yet, if at the end of the season Ovechkin has more points or scores a crazy amount of goals he'll win. If Crosby has more points (goals or assists, they all count) then he'll win and should win. It just doesn't get any simpler then that. Now give the conspiracy theories a rest, I said it before but it is really scary that a "reporter" would be this bias and narrow minded.

I totally agree. There is more to hockey then just scoring goals. Although I have not seen any games that these TWO great rookies have played in yet “I was in Seattle on business last week (no hockey on the tube )” but obviously IF you know hockey, any of these two players can win the Calder this years. Both have shown that they have incredible talent and scoring ability although Ovechkin has scored more unbelievable goals, Crosby has shown breathtaking on ice vision in addition. Both players are explosive and entertaining.

Sid is the points leader in Pits and logs 2-3 minutes less ice-time on average then Ovechkin. I have seen on replay, feeds from Sid that usually comes from veteran superstars. I have also seen breathtaking scoring ability. Scoring ability is the only thing I have seen from Ovechkin and they were spectacular.

As for Sid winning because he is Canadian, well that’s typical in this forum. Funny causes there are more non-Canadian winners:

· Nobokov
· Gomez
· Drury
· Samsonov
· Berard
· Alfredson
· Forsburg

[mberube]

It's not a conspiracy theory, it's reality. It has little to do with nationality, in Crosby's case, but it has something to do with it in a roundabout way. Media votes are localized to Canada and USA. Who are we assaulted with in the press each day? Crosby.

Dan

So what. Everybody knows that the Calder winner is voted by the PHWA but that doesn’t mean that they are all idiot and cant seen talent for what it is.

[Hank Hill]

There is always a concern that some of the voters have been "wowed" by the Crosby publicity already. I hope they reserve their judgement until the end of the season. I notice that Crosby got rookie of the month for October even though Vorobiev (playing on a bad Chicago team) had more points. Time will tell I guess, but this has to be the most exciting rookie crop in a long time. Hockey wins, plain and simple.

[broken27]

· Nobokov
· Gomez
· Drury
· Samsonov
· Berard
· Alfredson
· Forsburg

So, if you selectively edit the winners of the Calder trophy you can create some illusion that there are more non-Canadian winners?

http://www.nhl.com/hockeyu/history/trophies/calder.html

Check the whole list and tell me if your little theory still holds any water...

As Hank pointed out, how can you justify Crosby getting rookie of the month over Vorobiev? Don't think this is some witchhunt. I'm talking about the problem we're going to have becuase there is SO MUCH press on Crosby that it's hard to think much of anyone else.

How many stories has TSN run on Ovechkin? Not including game reports.... 3? 5?

On Crosby? 100? 200?

There's no contest if this comes down to a vote by media.

Dan

[dbleber]

That list proves nothing. It's almost even! You can't count back into the 40's, you can only really start to compare things from 1980 (even then it's close) since there wasn't the European push until around that time. Let's face the facts Canucks have been smackin the puck on ice when Europeans were still trying to find away to make soccer a winter sport! We've just been doing this longer so it makes sense that back in the day winners are Canadian, but not so much anymore. The level of hockey across the globe is just to competive now.

[jeffc]

of course TSN runs more stories on Crosby. He's Canadian for god's sake and last time I checked TSN was a Canadian sports network. As for the rookie list, how long have Euros really been in the NHL. 25 years? and what's the percentage of Euros to Canadians? Using those figures, I'm sure that the Euros have won more than Candians have statistically.

[jonf]

of course TSN runs more stories on Crosby. He's Canadian for god's sake and last time I checked TSN was a Canadian sports network. As for the rookie list, how long have Euros really been in the NHL. 25 years? and what's the percentage of Euros to Canadians? Using those figures, I'm sure that the Euros have won more than Candians have statistically.

exactly


Not only does it make sense that we get lots of Canadian content in Canada (really a shocking fact, that one...where do those canucks get off), but the program director for TSN is not the guy who is going to be voting on the awards. It's hockey writers who are doing the voting. Before I get told that "you don't know who does the voting, you're not a hockey writer" i'll admit it. I don't know exactly who DOES vote, but I think it's a safe bet to say that station programming directors who choose their content are NOT the types of journalists who get a vote. If i'm wrong, then disregard this statement (but prove it).

[dbleber]

I would be interested to know what the media coverage is on Ovechkin or Crosby in the sport pages in russia are? I know they like their hockey and I am sure more are interested in hearing about Ovechkin............