Crosby or Ovechkin?

[LobWedge]

I have just managed to trade my way to the 1st overall draft pick in my pool this year, which leaves me with an interesting problem. Crosby or Ovechkin?

2 of the highest rated players in years are available and I'm asking for your feedback as to who I should pick. I'm leaning more in one direction right now but I have some time before draft day, so "argue" away.

Cheers.

[The Shtick]

Ovechkin for sure. He'll be the "go to" guy in Washington. He has experience with the big boys and he's also my pick for the Calder trophy.

[spackler]

First overall pick? I'd go for a more reliable guy than a rookie unless it's a keeper league. Kovalchuk, St Louis, Iggy, Hossa, Nash are all guys I'd consider over Crosby and Ovechkin. Especially Kovalchuk and Hossa. But if you had to pick between the two you mention, I'd go Ovechkin.

["Richard"]

don't waist your first pick on either of those guys... there are going to be lots of players ahead of them and probably a few players close to being ahead of both of them combined!!!! (jagr, forsberg, kovulchuk, hossa and a few others I can't think of right now)

[dbleber]

For me, the choice is Crosby. I think he will be better supported in Pittsburgh and I think he above and beyond Ovechkin when in comes to hockey sense. Ovechkin is going to be a a real crappy hockey environment and unlike Kovalcjuk, he has no Heatley. Ovechkin also has an attitude problem which in my popinion will get sorted out early and we may not see Ovechkin for the whole season. Just my 2 cents.

[Golfbum]

Neither, why waste a first place pick on unproven players, unless you are forced by the rules to take a rookie.

I'd pick Joe Thornton if I had your draft pick. He had a great season in Europe last year, won the Spangler Cup, his team won the Championship in their league. He is in great shape, just signed a nice 3 year deal so he is happy. If the NHL cracks down on the obstruction then Joey T is going to tear it up

2nd pick would be Rick Nash, he played with Joe and he is a sniper!

[Shivas Irons]

I would pick Ovechkin over Crosby, but as thotho pointed out, if this is a first pick there are plenty of players that would be a better pick.
Hossa, Kovalchuk, Forsburg, Iginla are just a few I would pick ahead of Crosby or Ovechkin.

[Shivas Irons]

just signed a nice 3 year deal so he is happy.

This is usually an indication a player will have a lack luster season. Look for players who are in the last year of their contracts to tear it up.

[Colby]

If a trade was involved to get to this point, this is a "keeper" league where you have to draft new players, trade, waive players to get rid of them etc. Just like the big league, these fantasy leagues go on for years, each team building as time goes on. So Thorton, Kovalchuk, etc are most likely already on someone else's team.

[LobWedge]

If a trade was involved to get to this point, this is a "keeper" league where you have to draft new players, trade, waive players to get rid of them etc. Just like the big league, these fantasy leagues go on for years, each team building as time goes on. So Thorton, Kovalchuk, etc are most likely already on someone else's team.

Exactly. I just came back to the thread to check it out (I forgot I had started it - old age). We all have established rosters so the majority of the top flight talent is already "owned". We're only allowed to protect a certain number of players from season to season, but it still only releases limited talent back in to the pool. In that respect we have to wheel and deal to work our way up the draft ladder. I was originally slated to pick 4th overall, but as I said at the beginning, I've managed to wheel and deal my way to #1. That being said, I'm in a position to draft either one of these "can't miss" prospects. I'm looking toward the future. Most years it's usually a no brainer, #1 and everybody else. This year is a tough decision.

Thanks for all the input so far.

[Chambokl]

Take Crosby. He will get 50 to 70 points this year and probably close to 100 next year. He will play with Lemieux. It doesn't matter how old Mario is, whoever plays with him will get points....

Good luck.

Chambo

[Golfbum]

This is usually an indication a player will have a lack luster season. Look for players who are in the last year of their contracts to tear it up.

Care to make a little friendly wager? I happen to know Joe and I don't think he is going to slack off because he has a 3 year deal.

[mberube]

Crosby cause he will have a lot more support with the Pens. The Caps have no team. It’s a lot easier to shutdown one player then two lines.

Mike

[Shivas Irons]

Care to make a little friendly wager? I happen to know Joe and I don't think he is going to slack off because he has a 3 year deal.

Players generally play best in the last year of their contracts. Dispute that if you like.
Glad to hear you know Joe, good for you, but I'm not convinced that you knowing Joe will ensure he has a good year.

[broken27]

Players generally play best in the last year of their contracts. Dispute that if you like.
Glad to hear you know Joe, good for you, but I'm not convinced that you knowing Joe will ensure he has a good year.

Totally agreed. Thornton has had ample time to establish himself as an elite player and has never lived up to his billing. He is a very solid regular season performer, but even worse than Yashin in the playoffs (doubt me? look it up).

As for the pick: No brainer - Ovechkin. Much stronger on the puck than Crosby, and considering Crosby's "support" will likely play between 5-10 games this season then retire (it's an Olympic year, remember?), I think Ovechkin is a stronger pick long term. Pittsburgh is trying to send Mario off with a bang, and even though I doubt they'll make the playoffs this season, I truly believe they will have to rebuild again next season.

Plus, I don't think Crosby's going to be as impressive at the NHL level as everyone else seems to think. He hasn't proven anything against men, only boys. Ovechkin is the real deal on all sides.

Dan
BTW - Calder to Jeff Carter this season.

[mberube]

As for the pick: No brainer - Ovechkin. Much stronger on the puck than Crosby, and considering Crosby's "support" will likely play between 5-10 games this season then retire (it's an Olympic year, remember?), I think Ovechkin is a stronger pick long term. Pittsburgh is trying to send Mario off with a bang, and even though I doubt they'll make the playoffs this season, I truly believe they will have to rebuild again next season.

Plus, I don't think Crosby's going to be as impressive at the NHL level as everyone else seems to think. He hasn't proven anything against men, only boys. Ovechkin is the real deal on all sides.

Dan
BTW - Calder to Jeff Carter this season.

Crosby was the strongest guy on the puck in the CHL the past two seasons. If Ovechkin is stronger, I can’t wait to see that.

Mike

[dbleber]

BTW - Calder to Jeff Carter this season.

I was talking about this the other day. A lot of us are so wrapped up in the Ovechkin /Crosby thing most have forgot about Carter. He is more developed then both and think he will slide right into placve at the NHL level. I'll second that pick!

[broken27]

Crosby was the strongest guy on the puck in the CHL the past two seasons. If Ovechkin is stronger, I can’t wait to see that.

Mike

Ovechkin has played against men in a high-level league. He's built much stronger than Crosby at the moment (although Crosby's still filling out). Ovechkin handles the puck in traffic like Hossa, Yashin or Jagr, all of whom are known for being impossible to knock off the puck in tight spaces...

Speaking strictly as a hockey fan, I am really looking forward to seeing Ovechkin's transition to the NHL. He's made a lot of fairly y statements, but so did Ilya Kovalchuk. When they know it, Russkies aren't afraid to tell you they're good...

Dan

["Richard"]

welcome back dan, how was your "vacation"

[Golfbum]

Players generally play best in the last year of their contracts. Dispute that if you like.
Glad to hear you know Joe, good for you, but I'm not convinced that you knowing Joe will ensure he has a good year.

Knowing Joe has nothing to do with him having a good year. I just do not agree with the statement that now that he has a 3 year deal he will slack off.
An elite player is only as good as his supporting cast. I am not a Bruins fan, I just look at the facts. Yes it is true Joe has not had very good success in the playoffs, but then again did any other Bruin players have any success?

Joe came back from Europe refreshed in mind and body. He enjoyed his time and the hockey over there. So I feel he will have a good year.

[Shivas Irons]

Knowing Joe has nothing to do with him having a good year.

No sh*t Sherlock, but why then did you feel the need to inform everyone you know Joe?

I just do not agree with the statement that now that he has a 3 year deal he will slack off.

Okay, read, then re-read, and then read my post a 3rd time. I did NOT say THORTON will have a bad year because he just signed a new contract. For your convenience here's the post:

Players generally play best in the last year of their contracts. Dispute that if you like.

[broken27]

I was talking about this the other day. A lot of us are so wrapped up in the Ovechkin /Crosby thing most have forgot about Carter. He is more developed then both and think he will slide right into placve at the NHL level. I'll second that pick!

Carter is not more developed than Ovechkin, but will play in a better environment in year one. This is why I see him (or even Richards) getting the Calder.

Another outside name, should he make the team out of camp, is Detroit's Johan Franzen. I'm sure most of you will disagree, but despite his late drafting, Franzen was called the "most NHL-ready prospect of the 2004 draft". With Datsyuk (rightly) taking a $6M walk to Russia, Detroit may call on Franzen in a hurry. Wouldn't put money on it, but I think you'll see Franzen impess in year 1.

Anyways, I'm just catching up on all the stuff that happened while I was on involuntary hiatus. Glad to see there's still some hostility here...

Dan

[dbleber]

Carter is not more developed than Ovechkin, but will play in a better environment in year one. This is why I see him (or even Richards) getting the Calder.

Another outside name, should he make the team out of camp, is Detroit's Johan Franzen. I'm sure most of you will disagree, but despite his late drafting, Franzen was called the "most NHL-ready prospect of the 2004 draft". With Datsyuk (rightly) taking a $6M walk to Russia, Detroit may call on Franzen in a hurry. Wouldn't put money on it, but I think you'll see Franzen impess in year 1.

Anyways, I'm just catching up on all the stuff that happened while I was on involuntary hiatus. Glad to see there's still some hostility here...

Dan

Detroit is famous for their scouting and having unbelievable talent in late draft picks. But you have to be kidding if you agree with what Datsyuk did! I hope the NHL never lets him back. That kid or his agents has the biggest set I have seen in awhile. To think that you are worth the elite salary when you haven't done a thing yet. Did he have a good year? Yes. Is he talented? Yes. Has he won the Rockets,Art or Conn Smythe Trophies................NO! This kid hasn't proven a thing except that he had a good year and showed signs that he MAY be a superstar in the NHL in a couple of years. I thought the Wings were nuts when the offered 5 mil!

By the way Dan...Welcome back. Hockey talk isn't as much fun when you have no one to argue with!

[Big Johnny69]

I do like Denny's call on Carter winning the Calder. I beg to differ with you Dan that Carter is not as developped as Ovechkin (sp?). All you heard throughout the juniors from Pierre and company was how Carter was Philly's farm team's best player at the end of the season and throughout the playoffs and if it wasn't for the lockout he would have been playing in the NHL. Sure not the NHL but he was playing against men at a high level of play and according to reputable sources was playing very well. Just my two cents.

[LobWedge]

Detroit is famous for their scouting and having unbelievable talent in late draft picks. But you have to be kidding if you agree with what Datsyuk did! I hope the NHL never lets him back. That kid or his agents has the biggest set I have seen in awhile. To think that you are worth the elite salary when you haven't done a thing yet. Did he have a good year? Yes. Is he talented? Yes. Has he won the Rockets,Art or Conn Smythe Trophies................NO! This kid hasn't proven a thing except that he had a good year and showed signs that he MAY be a superstar in the NHL in a couple of years. I thought the Wings were nuts when the offered 5 mil!

By the way Dan...Welcome back. Hockey talk isn't as much fun when you have no one to argue with!

Hey, it's a free market. If Datsyuk is motivated by money (and it seems he is) then he's made the right choice. He's got the best of both worlds right now. He can play at "home" and make more money. And don't think that he's going to play in some 'B' league either.

Almost everybody (Dan, I said almost )calls the NHL the "best league in the world", but I don't think that's the case anymore. The evidence is proven time and time again when the Olympics and World Championships roll around. My ultimate hockey dream would be to see the NHL (or whatever it would be called) on a truly global stage with teams based in North America, Europe and elsewhere. These guys fly from coast to coast now, and it's the same distance from the East Coast to Europe. To me it's a no brainer.

[jeffc]

These guys fly from coast to coast now, and it's the same distance from the East Coast to Europe. To me it's a no brainer.

Actually, it is a lot farther to fly to Europe (I fly there regularly), especially the hockey playing nations...

New York to LA - 3961 km
New York to Munich - 6505 km
New York to Moscow - 7533 km

Also, in NA, there is 3 hours difference between NY and LA. To most of Europe it is 6 hours.

and that's just from NY. Imagine flying from the west coast to Europe, regularly.

[broken27]

I do like Denny's call on Carter winning the Calder. I beg to differ with you Dan that Carter is not as developped as Ovechkin (sp?). All you heard throughout the juniors from Pierre and company was how Carter was Philly's farm team's best player at the end of the season and throughout the playoffs and if it wasn't for the lockout he would have been playing in the NHL. Sure not the NHL but he was playing against men at a high level of play and according to reputable sources was playing very well. Just my two cents.

Joke's on you here bud... I picked Carter to win Calder, Denny agreed with me. I stand by my reckoning that Ovechkin is more developed than Carter, and I really don't see why you're saying contrary.

Consider: 4 years of Russian Super League, Military Service, umpteen international tourneys... One season of Carter playing AHL against men doesn't add up to what Ovechkin's done. I think one vs one, Ovechkin is BY FAR the better player, but circumstances (Washington) give him a severe handicap in terms of challenging for Calder. I still think he'll be among the top 3 finalists though.

Dan

[LobWedge]

Actually, it is a lot farther to fly to Europe (I fly there regularly), especially the hockey playing nations...

New York to LA - 3961 km
New York to Munich - 6505 km
New York to Moscow - 7533 km

Also, in NA, there is 3 hours difference between NY and LA. To most of Europe it is 6 hours.

and that's just from NY. Imagine flying from the west coast to Europe, regularly.

Yeah, but if they fly in the other direction they arrive a day early.

[broken27]

Ovechkin 2 / Crosby 0
Two periods into the new season...lol

Ovechkin is AWESOME!!!! Almost tempted to stop watching Leafs/Sens.

Dan

[dbleber]

Ovechkin looks great, but Crosby looks great too and has had tons of chances. There is a big difference scoring goals against Columbus then against the Devils!!!!