Honesty? Or getting away with one.

[JimmyW]

Did anybody catch Walter Morgan's "whiff" on the weekend?
For those who didn't see it, long putt for birdie misses by inches. He then half-*****edly "practice swings" at the ball - once. After his "practice swing" he straightens himself up a bit and actually putts the ball in the hole. Marks a parr on his card. Goes home with more money than he came with.

When asked about his "whiff" he replies that, no he wasn't trying to hit the ball the first time, that's just how he gets ready thank you very much.

Gary, what constitutes "intending to hit the ball"? (sorry if my terminology is not 100% correct but I think you get my point
He said he never intended to hit the ball and it doesn't matter what it"looked" like.

JW

[LBH]

I truly believe that he wrote down the WRONG score and should have been disqualified. It's obvious he intended to hit the ball and missed so he should have scored a bogey. He would have finished at 14 under instead of 15 under and would have finished in 4th place instead of tied for 2nd.

Truly amazing that he wasn't disqualified!!!

[4jag]

He may have carded a lower score and cashed a bigger cheque but anyone who saw it thinks he cheated.

Sorry buddy, 2 inches or not your half-hearted attempt at a tap in was a stroke and you should have taken your lumps.

You saved a stroke but lost the respect of golfers and more importantly your fellow tour players forever.

[Gary Hill]

A “stroke’’ is the forward movement of the club made with the intention of fairly striking at and moving the ball...

The word intention means "player's intention", so if he Walter Morgan says he was did not intend to hit the ball, then the Rules say the movement of the club was not a stroke.

The only thing recorded on the scorecard is strokes, so his scorecard was correct.

Be very careful about calling someone a "cheater" unless you have some hard evidence that you are not telling us about. This is a public forum and you could open yourself to lawsuits.

The whole basis of the Rules is the integrity of the players.

Any further replies to this thread should be of a "generic" nature.
Replies with specific incidents or names will be edited or deleted.

[4jag]

Ok, if by definition Walter Whiff (pseudonym to protect the professed innocent) didn't break the rules because he says he didn't intend to hit the ball then he is not technically a cheater as per the rules of golf (although he may be accused of being a stretcher-of-the-truth) .

However IMHO, based on seeing the replays several times it's pretty clear he was trying to advance the ball in to the hole. Only he knows what his true intentions were but his actions were very clear and contradict his stated intention.

Wasn't it just last year that Tom Wargo had a similar incident, whereby he attempted to tap in a putt and awkwardly missed the first stab and then holed it? The officials viewed the tape and said Wargo had made a stroke, even though he denied it, almost vehemently. Ruling stood, AGAINST the player despite his stated intentions.

[JimmyW]

A “stroke’’ is the forward movement of the club made with the intention of fairly striking at and moving the ball...

The word intention means "player's intention", so if he Walter Morgan says he was did not intend to hit the ball, then the Rules say the movement of the club was not a stroke

Any further replies to this thread should be of a "generic" nature

GH


Generally speaking then Gary, at what point does player intent clash with the rules of golf and the officials ruling?

Can I take my stance and w---f my 5 iron from 160 out? I'm not trying to be funny when I ask this. At some point one opinion has to supercede the other.

JW

[spidey]

I think the court of public opinion has already passed its judgement on poor Walter. I wouldn't be surprised if his agent has already raked him over the coals on it. Expect the lineups for his autographs to shorten, and his extracurricular activities to dry up.

If he didn't mean to hit it.... $117K is a tough pill.

If he did mean to hit it, he has as much integrity as the obnoxious fans that didn't know when to back off at the Western open.

Makes me respect the games honest ones even more.... Hale Irwin, Jack Nicklaus, Tom Kite... come to mind as guys who called themselves.

Either way... I suspect there'll be a memo go around the Senior Tour's locker rooms about back-handed and other ill-advised tap-in's.

[Gary Hill]

The player is ALWAYS deemed to be telling the truth. This is a basic principle of the Rules.
The on-course official is bound by this premise when making a ruling.
So, generally speaking, if it comes down to a simple "he said she said", the ruling would favor the player.

However, an incident such as the one we are discussing, would be taken up by the Committee.
The "Committee" is the person(s) in charge of the tournament.
The Committee has the power to IMPOSE a penalty of disqualification.
The decision of the Committee is FINAL.

The Committee would gather all available evidence in the matter before making a decision.
(For televised events, this would include a review the tapes)

Owing to the seriousness of the result, I would suspect that the Committee would need pretty strong evidence to rule against a players word.
Having said that, Bob Toski "withdrew" from the Senior Tour when tapes showed him repeatedly mis-marking his ball (inchworming).

[em69]

If it was me...I'd feel guilty as hell. Besides, the players are playing for the opportunity to win, not how much money they get (or so they say).