Bye Bye Hossa... Hello Heatley!!!

["Richard"]

so based on that, ottawa could still sign all three of them. Which i think was perhaps the point of getting rid of hossa. Just a thought

[broken27]

Saving $6M over 3 seasons is not going to sign 3 players of that calibre. You have to remember that we've signed this Heatley idiot to a $4.5M per season contract (how ironic that value works proportionately with Hossa's new deal, considering Heatley's numbers in the last NHL season).

At any rate, they're going to lose more good players before this mess is all over. How could they not? This move doesn't really address much more than the $2M breathing room everyone wants in relation to the cap. It's peanuts.

Dan

[flagolfnut]

Terrible trade as far as I'm concerned, but who knows Heatley might step up, but he's definetely not as talented as Hossa.

[bbad]

Now guys have no respect for each other and are not scared when they do something stupid. Let the boys police themselves and the game will get better.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

My only other comment to the way the game is now, is that there is SO much clutching and grabbing, that sometimes I think the ref's should just throw them a towel and ask them to clean the mess up after they're done.

[Big Johnny69]

It was only two years ago that Heatly put up 41 goals and 89 pts. Other than fighting an injury this past season I think he could put up numbers like that again with a much more talented team. And I think Heatley is a better defensive player as well. I think that is why he got the Calder over Kovalchuck their rookie seasons. Just my two cents.

[Chambokl]

Dan, you are trying to tell us how much you know about hockey. Even calling some people morons. i would just like point out a few things:

You said: "Heatley looked pathetic in the Russian League" (Did you watch these games on CBC)

You said: " If Muckler keels over and dies tonight, party at my place tomorrow!" (No comment on this one -- you should join the Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson's church)

You said: "Chara - $6.5M - 5 years (yeah, BIG money for the BIG Z)" -- You got to be kidding me. Big Chara will make $ 3.74 million. You think he will accept 6.5 for 5 years -- keep dreaming

You said: "Heatley idiot" -- You might be surprise to know that he is a real nice guy. Accident happens to everybody and that was an accident. Alcohol wasn't a factor but just a plain damn accident. He will have to live with this for the rest of his life -- Dan Snyder was his best friend.

Come on Dan, if you want to debate it is OK but don't treat people like garbage because you lose respect from others around. Atlanta will still be a good team, maybe better because they got 2 players and Ottawa received a great young man in Heatley. He is a great hockey player and you will love him if you give him a chance. Ottawa will be better because they will be able to keep their great defence together. The big 3 "Redden, Chara nad Phillips" are awesome but they will miss Devries who should have a better year with coach Hartley.

Both team will be awesome this year. The Leafs will be envious of the Thrashers and Sens.

Jean-Guy

[el tigre]

Saving $6M over 3 seasons is not going to sign 3 players of that calibre. You have to remember that we've signed this Heatley idiot to a $4.5M per season contract (how ironic that value works proportionately with Hossa's new deal, considering Heatley's numbers in the last NHL season).

At any rate, they're going to lose more good players before this mess is all over. How could they not? This move doesn't really address much more than the $2M breathing room everyone wants in relation to the cap. It's peanuts.

Dan

Well, well, well Dan... this really is an interesting turn of events.

A year ago, Gary Bettman could not have found a stronger supporter for his vision of an NHL with "cost-certainty" than our very own broken27. But now that your favourite team has to get rid of some of their star players to comply with Bettman's "new world order", you're crying foul.

Yes, Hossa is a much better player than Heatley - and I believe he will become a franchise player for Atlanta. When you look strictly at the players and how they perform on the ice, Atlanta did much better than Ottawa with this trade. Under the old system, it never would have happened.

But on-ice performance is not the No. #1 concern anymore. Performance and the desire to win now takes a backseat to the almight $$$. It doesn't matter anymore whether Ottawa wins the Stanley Cup or not. They will be on budget and might even show a small profit - isn't that exciting!

[broken27]

Dan, you are trying to tell us how much you know about hockey. Even calling some people morons. i would just like point out a few things:

You said: "Heatley looked pathetic in the Russian League" (Did you watch these games on CBC)

You said: " If Muckler keels over and dies tonight, party at my place tomorrow!" (No comment on this one -- you should join the Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson's church)

You said: "Chara - $6.5M - 5 years (yeah, BIG money for the BIG Z)" -- You got to be kidding me. Big Chara will make $ 3.74 million. You think he will accept 6.5 for 5 years -- keep dreaming

You said: "Heatley idiot" -- You might be surprise to know that he is a real nice guy. Accident happens to everybody and that was an accident. Alcohol wasn't a factor but just a plain damn accident. He will have to live with this for the rest of his life -- Dan Snyder was his best friend.

Come on Dan, if you want to debate it is OK but don't treat people like garbage because you lose respect from others around. Atlanta will still be a good team, maybe better because they got 2 players and Ottawa received a great young man in Heatley. He is a great hockey player and you will love him if you give him a chance. Ottawa will be better because they will be able to keep their great defence together. The big 3 "Redden, Chara nad Phillips" are awesome but they will miss Devries who should have a better year with coach Hartley.

Both team will be awesome this year. The Leafs will be envious of the Thrashers and Sens.

Jean-Guy

No, I watched Russian league games on Sportsnet, everyone in Canada had that priviledge this past season....

Before you denounce me for calling someone a moron, read what they wrote first. What would you call some barbaric vulgar person who essentially challenges you to a hockey fight or calls you a coward? I call them "morons". It's the most fitting term.

Thirdly, if people on the internet lose respect for me because of something in the Ottawa Golf forums, so be it. Other than a select few, I've never met most of you, so why should I lose any sleep over someone's choice to base their entire opinion of someone on what they read on the net?

Pat Robertson holds no interest for me as I do not believe in any god. Some other right wing group perhaps?

Chara at $6.5M for 5 seasons adds up to $32.5M. If he doesn't sign that, he's a tool.

As for Heatley being an idiot? I feel perfectly justified in calling someone who is driving a performance car more than triple the speed limit on a wet residential street an idiot. That's not an accident, it's poor judgment. That's what idiots do! Is he a nice guy? Probably. Hell, I'd be a lot nicer too if I was making that kind of money! Hmm... Maybe you guys who are offended by me should hold a fundraiser to make me a millionaire who is much more affable!

Finally, I will not love Dany Heatley, ever. I have watched plenty of his play, and realize that he has enough talent... I just don't find him nearly as exciting to watch as a Kovalchuk, Hossa or (I'll throw you anti-Euros a bone) Nash. You pick your guys, I'll pick mine...

Cheers, enjoy your team.
Dan

[broken27]

Well, well, well Dan... this really is an interesting turn of events.

A year ago, Gary Bettman could not have found a stronger supporter for his vision of an NHL with "cost-certainty" than our very own broken27. But now that your favourite team has to get rid of some of their star players to comply with Bettman's "new world order", you're crying foul.

Yes, Hossa is a much better player than Heatley - and I believe he will become a franchise player for Atlanta. When you look strictly at the players and how they perform on the ice, Atlanta did much better than Ottawa with this trade. Under the old system, it never would have happened.

But on-ice performance is not the No. #1 concern anymore. Performance and the desire to win now takes a backseat to the almight $$$. It doesn't matter anymore whether Ottawa wins the Stanley Cup or not. They will be on budget and might even show a small profit - isn't that exciting!

Now serving #42? Hehehe...

Terry, look into this deal and you'll see that the economic ramifications are nowhere near as dramatic as all that. I'm firmly into cost certainty, but not Bettman....

Ottawa saves a whopping $6Mil and change OVER THREE SEASONS!!!! Whoopty-frikking-do!!!! That $2Mil per season could have been saved in much less dramatic ways... Hell, trading your impending UFA Redden makes more sense, even if you get back a Mike Van Ryn or someone... Buying out Smolinski woulda solved it, or deVries!!!

This deal has NOTHING to do with economics. Ottawa will lose one of Chara or Redden, and my money at this point is on Chara being the odd man out. Redden will get some big extension over the next month or so, and then when the Senators balk at Zdeno's next contract request, he's outta here.... The guy IS a Norris Trophy finalist from last season, and a likely eventual winner...

Now, I'm certainly not towing the party lines of the NHLPA here, but shouldn't the most productive player (or best player) on your team be the best paid? Does that mean that Muckler's statement of "Alfredsson will be our highest paid player" is a foreshadowing of the Senators getting rid of Havlat, Spezza, Chara, and Phillips??? In my opinion all are better than Alfie, except maybe Phillips...

Oh well, it's getting late and I still have to write my "official" stance on this...

Dan

[Ty Webb]

I don't believe Heatley is an idiot (by the way, he was born in Europe). He has made some mistakes but if I was 21 and owned a Ferarri, I would have done the same thing. I am 40 and would probably do that. His season last year wasn't that bad. 27 games and 28 points.

I am sad to see Hossa go as I have always liked to watch him play. He is exciting but so is Heatley. A change is sometimes a good thing.

It is good to see some passion about hockey here though.

[dbleber]

Before you denounce me for calling someone a moron, read what they wrote first. What would you call some barbaric vulgar person who essentially challenges you to a hockey fight or calls you a coward? I call them "morons". It's the most fitting term.
Dan

For the record I did not "challenge" you to a hockey fight or call you a coward. I invited you to put your money where your mouth is and come play hockey instead of beaking off about it. Like I said before I would be surprised if you know how to skate. And for the record I did not use any vulgar language or terms. For someone who is supposed to be a reporter you don't seem able to get the facts right and name dropping are not facts in my book.

I will say that I agree that they should have bought out Smolinski and De Vries when they had the chance if the cap room was the issue, but I think behind closed doors there is more to this then we know. I think Hossa's attitude for more money when he hasn't proven him self as a franchise player yet rubbed the Sens management the wrong way and when Healtey wanted out of Atlanta it just all fell into place. I think we will see this again with Havlat based on what happened the last time his contract was done.

[jeffc]

call it a change of scenery for everyone. The Sens have had lots of chances to win with the players in hand and the team this year has the same core that they have had for the last 4-5 years and couldn't get the deal done. Yes they've made some other changes as well (coach, goalie, Bonk) but I also believe dleber speaks some truth. The Sens weren't going to pay him the 6M a year he wanted and if it went to arbitration, Hossa was a free agent next year and the Sens get nothing in return. Call it Hossa being a little greedy and this is what he gets.

[powerlefty]

Wow! Dan, it's hard to keep up with all your posts. As I stated yesterday in a couple of threads, a move was inevitable once the big Hossa deal was signed and this trade does make economic sense under the new CBA.


As for some of your other points...

You don't lose cap space by buying someone out. The time period for that has passed now.

Is this correct? I thought the opposite was true - that teams had some period of time at the end of July to buy out contracts without counting against the cap (like Philly did with Leclair) and then after that date, buyouts do count against the cap. If my understanding is correct, the Sens did get rid of a $2.2M problem in deVries by trading him. Maybe they should have bought him out in July at $1.5M but now they saved that $1.5M cash.

If nobody else remembers, Heatley killed his best friend and teammate Dan Snyder because he was driving like an idiot in a residential area (in his Ferrarri, on wet roads).

This was a tragic accident. Yes, it was a huge misjudgement and reckless on Heatley's part but young kids do feel invincible and sometimes do stupid things - we all probably did, and most of us get away with our errors but in Heatley's case he did not and it resulted in the death of his best friend. By making this statement you are treading on very thin ice and almost sound like Pat Quinn dredging up memories of the Berard incident - another tragic, reckless, accident, this one by Hossa with very serious consequences for another human being.

Chara is FA, Redden is FA, Havlat is FA, Spezza is signed I think for one added season or has an option or something like that.......


Don't believe any of them qualify for unrestricted free agency yet. If they did, why trim payroll? I suppose you could try resigning all those guys before the season ends, but it's very unlikely. I think they're RFA, but will be seeking bigger bucks.

I thought Redden and Chara will be UFAs, Havlat and Spezza RFAs. Has Havalat been here long enough and is he old enough to be a UFA?

If Muckler keels over and dies tonight, party at my place tomorrow!

Dan

Careful, if John reads this forum, you might lose your press pass!!


As I said yesterday, this deal is VERY MUCH about economics. According to the TSN website, the Sens have 21 players under contract at $29.9M. That does not include the undisclosed salaries of 7 plaers on the list which probably add about $4-5M more. So the Sens are around $34.5M with 21 players. I think most teams carry around 23 players so their payroll is likley projected around $36M for 23 players. This leaves $3M for injury and late season contingencies. If they had not made the moves they did, they would have been around 23 players at $39.2M (add Hossa at $5M, add deVries at $2.3M, subtract Heatley at $3.5M, subtract a low end player at $600k). So they were right at the cap with no room for error. Of course there may have been other solution such as moving other players but they would basically just have to give them away to get rid of salary.

[jeffc]

dan I think your math is a bit off:

Hossa 5M 6M 7M
DeVries 2.28M 2.052M
Heatley 3.5M 4.5M 5.5M

So in the first year the Sens save (5+2.28-3.5) = 3.78M
In Year 2 they save (6+2.052-4.5)=3.5M
In Year 3 they save (7-5.5)=1.5M

Total = 8.78M over 3 years

[el tigre]

Now serving #42? Hehehe...

Terry, look into this deal and you'll see that the economic ramifications are nowhere near as dramatic as all that. I'm firmly into cost certainty, but not Bettman....

Ottawa saves a whopping $6Mil and change OVER THREE SEASONS!!!! Whoopty-frikking-do!!!! That $2Mil per season could have been saved in much less dramatic ways... Hell, trading your impending UFA Redden makes more sense, even if you get back a Mike Van Ryn or someone... Buying out Smolinski woulda solved it, or deVries!!!

This deal is TOTALLY about economics. That's what deals are all about in the salary-cap world.

My understanding is that the Sens "real" final offer to Hossa was made on Sunday at $25 million over 5 years. If he had taken it, they would have kept him. When he didn't, they couldn't risk arbitration and then getting nothing for him. Arbitrator's make decisions based solely on numbers, and Hossa's numbers are good. He would have gotten $7 million and free agency next year. The contract was negotiated on Atlanta's behalf and the Thrasher's probably HAD to take DeVries as part of the deal whether they wanted him or not. This kind of thing happens in the salary-cap NBA all the time.

The new CBA with salary cap is designed to achieve parity and competitive balance between the teams. It should be no surprise to anyone that many of the strong teams before the new CBA (like Ottawa and Colorado) will get weaker and many of the weak teams (like Atlanta) will get stronger. Teams will be flipping star players all the time now - just like the NBA. Even though Hossa played his first 6 years with one team, he will probably end up now playing for at least 7 or 8 teams before his NHL career is over - regardless of his on-ice performance.

Stop living in the past Dan - its a whole new world out there. It's not about winning any more - sure you want to be competitive, but nothing is more important than "making the number". The accountants are in charge now, so you'd better get used to it.

[Shivas Irons]

This deal is about economics, but also about Muckler & Murray not liking "European" style players which is totally old school & short sighted.
Ottawa traded a proven goal scorer for an unproven player who may or may not ever return to his original form.
Not only that, Healty's agent was asking for a trade, something that should have given Ottawa the upper hand in negotiations. Ottawa got hosed in this deal.
After years of excellent scouting of European players Muckler is going to drive this team into the ground with his stone-age thinking.

[jeffc]

I don't think anyone had the upper hand. Ottawa was in a bit of a corner as well, knowing that they either pay Hossa the $ he wanted or lose him to free agency next year for nothing. In a cap system, it is not always about getting the best player, it is more often about getting the best mix of players that fit within your cap. At least they got something in return. Also, Hossa was going to be paid more than Alfie, which is another reason the Sens didn't want to pay him the 5-6M. Really, if Hossa wanted to stay in Ottawa, he could have negotiated lesser salary to stay....there were good offers that he turned down. He gambled and lost.

[mberube]

This deal is TOTALLY about economics. That's what deals are all about in the salary-cap world.

My understanding is that the Sens "real" final offer to Hossa was made on Sunday at $25 million over 5 years. If he had taken it, they would have kept him. When he didn't, they couldn't risk arbitration and then getting nothing for him. Arbitrator's make decisions based solely on numbers, and Hossa's numbers are good. He would have gotten $7 million and free agency next year. The contract was negotiated on Atlanta's behalf and the Thrasher's probably HAD to take DeVries as part of the deal whether they wanted him or not. This kind of thing happens in the salary-cap NBA all the time.

The new CBA with salary cap is designed to achieve parity and competitive balance between the teams. It should be no surprise to anyone that many of the strong teams before the new CBA (like Ottawa and Colorado) will get weaker and many of the weak teams (like Atlanta) will get stronger. Teams will be flipping star players all the time now - just like the NBA. Even though Hossa played his first 6 years with one team, he will probably end up now playing for at least 7 or 8 teams before his NHL career is over - regardless of his on-ice performance.

Stop living in the past Dan - its a whole new world out there. It's not about winning any more - sure you want to be competitive, but nothing is more important than "making the number". The accountants are in charge now, so you'd better get used to it.

Well said El Tiger. Everyone here wants to be a GM. The reality is $$$$$$. The whole CDA is about teams making more $$$$$$. I totally agree about what el Tiger said. They offered the max they could pay Hossa with a backup plan before arbitration. Although
I feel Hossa is a more talented player, Heatley is a very talented player and has a lot of team leadership potential. It’s a risk cause we don’t know if he will bounce back from his accident but if he does he is a great add on. Especially in the playoffs. a new start is maybe what he needs.

Mike

[Shivas Irons]

Everyone here wants to be a GM.
Mike

Damn right I want to be GM!

I don't think anyone in Ottawa would want to keep Hossa "at any cost", and granted, he is a victim of his own greed, but with Muckler at the helm watch for this team to be stripped of it's European talent for what is preceived as "tougher" North American style player.
I still think Ottawa could have done better in this deal.

[larry]

Talent wise, Hossa vs Heatly, Atlanta wins hands down. Throw in DeVries and Atlanta wins big time. I understand that this trade was made for financial reasons and the fact that the Sens will have to have room to sign a number of important players next year. But if the NHL is serious about opening up the game, players like Hossa are going to dominate the league. All this talk of adding grit to the team worries me. One of the great things about being a Sens fan is being able to go out and watch one of the most talented, exciting teams in the NHL. (At least when Martin allowed them to open it up) And Hossa was the most talented and exciting Sen to watch. All the Sens lacked was a top notch goalie. I hope that management remembers that hockey is about entertainment. If I had to sit through a whole season of Leafs style hooking and holding hockey in hopes of squeezing into the second round of the playoffs, I would stop watching. I wouldn’t waste my time going to watch the Devils play. Luckily, the Sens still have a lot of talented players and if their goal tending holds up, they should still be one of the top 2 or 3 teams in the league.

[broken27]

This deal is TOTALLY about economics. That's what deals are all about in the salary-cap world.

My understanding is that the Sens "real" final offer to Hossa was made on Sunday at $25 million over 5 years. If he had taken it, they would have kept him. When he didn't, they couldn't risk arbitration and then getting nothing for him. Arbitrator's make decisions based solely on numbers, and Hossa's numbers are good. He would have gotten $7 million and free agency next year. The contract was negotiated on Atlanta's behalf and the Thrasher's probably HAD to take DeVries as part of the deal whether they wanted him or not. This kind of thing happens in the salary-cap NBA all the time.

The new CBA with salary cap is designed to achieve parity and competitive balance between the teams. It should be no surprise to anyone that many of the strong teams before the new CBA (like Ottawa and Colorado) will get weaker and many of the weak teams (like Atlanta) will get stronger. Teams will be flipping star players all the time now - just like the NBA. Even though Hossa played his first 6 years with one team, he will probably end up now playing for at least 7 or 8 teams before his NHL career is over - regardless of his on-ice performance.

Stop living in the past Dan - its a whole new world out there. It's not about winning any more - sure you want to be competitive, but nothing is more important than "making the number". The accountants are in charge now, so you'd better get used to it.

Well, I totally disagree with you here. Not about what a cap system CAN do, but about your interpretation of what it IS doing. If you want to suggest that Philly got weaker this offseason, fine. But don't start making assumptions about why trades are made, when the person making the trade says otherwise. The only economic factor of any real importance to this trade was that Muckler refuses to reward talent and performance. He wants Alfie to make the most money on the team despite being far from the best player. Okay. Things will get much worse then before they get better, as Havlat and Spezza at least will surpass Alfie this season and then be seeking more money. See ya guys.

And who is living in the past? As Shivas pointed out above, the only people living in the past are Muckler and Murray. Their old-school mentality is behind this, as is Muckler's ego. He wasn't going to be shown up through the arbitration process where Hossa would have gotten his just rewards (hell, $6M may have been a bargain!)...

Dan

[broken27]

Well said El Tiger. Everyone here wants to be a GM. The reality is $$$$$$. The whole CDA is about teams making more $$$$$$. I totally agree about what el Tiger said. They offered the max they could pay Hossa with a backup plan before arbitration. Although
I feel Hossa is a more talented player, Heatley is a very talented player and has a lot of team leadership potential. It’s a risk cause we don’t know if he will bounce back from his accident but if he does he is a great add on. Especially in the playoffs. a new start is maybe what he needs.

Mike

Hmm.... Heatley has ZERO playoff experience, and Hossa has been decent at least in the last three seasons.

2003-04 Ottawa NHL 7gp 3g 1a 4pt +2 0PIM
2002-03 Ottawa NHL 18gp 5g 11a 16pts -1 6PIM
2001-02 Ottawa NHL 12gp 4g 6a 10pts +2 2PIM

For those of you new to hockey, all three of those lines are very decent production totals, especially when you consider the performance of the rest of the team. So STOP with the comments about Hossa in the playoffs, since you obviously either didn't check, or are expecting too much.

Iginla last playoffs scored .846 points per game. In 02/03 Hossa had .888, in 01-02 he had .833 points per game. Last season, when the whole team played like crap, he managed only .577 points per game. Still better than most on the team.

How can Heatley instantly be considered a boon for the playoffs? The guy hasn't set foot in a playoff situation in the NHL. Not saying he'll be horrible, as I don't know, but why are you so quick to praise him for something he hasn't done? Must be that Canadian bias....

Dan

[mberube]

Hmm.... Heatley has ZERO playoff experience, and Hossa has been decent at least in the last three seasons.

2003-04 Ottawa NHL 7gp 3g 1a 4pt +2 0PIM
2002-03 Ottawa NHL 18gp 5g 11a 16pts -1 6PIM
2001-02 Ottawa NHL 12gp 4g 6a 10pts +2 2PIM

For those of you new to hockey, all three of those lines are very decent production totals, especially when you consider the performance of the rest of the team. So STOP with the comments about Hossa in the playoffs, since you obviously either didn't check, or are expecting too much.

Iginla last playoffs scored .846 points per game. In 02/03 Hossa had .888, in 01-02 he had .833 points per game. Last season, when the whole team played like crap, he managed only .577 points per game. Still better than most on the team.

How can Heatley instantly be considered a boon for the playoffs? The guy hasn't set foot in a playoff situation in the NHL. Not saying he'll be horrible, as I don't know, but why are you so quick to praise him for something he hasn't done? Must be that Canadian bias....

Dan

Because of the type of player he is. Scoring is not everything in hockey. Scoring goals at the right time is key. Hossa has never taken the Sens on his shoulder and win a playoff series. Your first remark will be “Dany never played a playoff game” I know that but look at the regular stats.

The first 3 years Heatley played in the NHL he scored 181points. The first 4 seasons Hossa played in the NHL ( 4 seasons cause he only played 7 games in the first) he scored 162 pints. Now compare team’s? Ottawa vs Atlanta!!!!

Hossa’s playoff stats are not that great for the calibre of player he is. 34 points in 51 games. Heatley 0 in 0 but his team sucked and he still managed to put up nice numbers in regular season. If Heatley comes back to form, a great trade this will be.

Don’t assume that fans don’t know hockey because they don’t share your opinions about hockey.

[mberube]

Because of the type of player he is. Scoring is not everything in hockey. Scoring goals at the right time is key. Hossa has never taken the Sens on his shoulder and win a playoff series. Your first remark will be “Dany never played a playoff game” I know that but look at the regular stats.

The first 3 years Heatley played in the NHL he scored 181points. The first 4 seasons Hossa played in the NHL ( 4 seasons cause he only played 7 games in the first) he scored 162 pints. Now compare team’s? Ottawa vs Atlanta!!!!

Hossa’s playoff stats are not that great for the calibre of player he is. 34 points in 51 games. Heatley 0 in 0 but his team sucked and he still managed to put up nice numbers in regular season. If Heatley comes back to form, a great trade this will be.

Don’t assume that fans don’t know hockey because they don’t share your opinions about hockey.

Oh ya I forgot. Heatly played 190 games in his first three years that makes .952 points per game.

Hossa played 226 games in 4 seasons with .716 PPG.

[broken27]

Because of the type of player he is. Scoring is not everything in hockey. Scoring goals at the right time is key. Hossa has never taken the Sens on his shoulder and win a playoff series. Your first remark will be “Dany never played a playoff game” I know that but look at the regular stats.

The first 3 years Heatley played in the NHL he scored 181points. The first 4 seasons Hossa played in the NHL ( 4 seasons cause he only played 7 games in the first) he scored 162 pints. Now compare team’s? Ottawa vs Atlanta!!!!

Hossa’s playoff stats are not that great for the calibre of player he is. 34 points in 51 games. Heatley 0 in 0 but his team sucked and he still managed to put up nice numbers in regular season. If Heatley comes back to form, a great trade this will be.

Don’t assume that fans don’t know hockey because they don’t share your opinions about hockey.

Your comments confuse me. You're saying Hossa should have MORE points because he played on a better team? That's kind of strange. Normally what tends to happen is that a good player on a crap team will get TONS of points because there's nobody else there to get them. Because Hossa played on a team with so much depth, he was used with Arvedson and Bonk as a checking line during his first two seasons. You don't get points from line 3 normally.

As for my assumptions about hockey fans knowing or not knowing about hockey, anyone who says Hossa was ineffective in the playoffs has essentially taken the guesswork out of that...

The funniest part of this is that I'm actually holding back a lot of commentary...

Dan

[Barnie]

(I'll throw you anti-Euros a bone) Nash.
Dan

Anti-euros. Your the only one that has been anti anything in these posts. Most people have agreed that Hossa is the . Personally I'm not the biggest fan of this trade. To me Hossa was our franchise player who was capable of taking us all the way. I'm not sure Heatley is. Either way it's a financial trade. I'm surprised you can't see that. Regardless don't cheer for the Sens and cheer for some American team. Shows your true colours (color for you) more.

[broken27]

Regardless don't cheer for the Sens and cheer for some American team. Shows your true colours (color for you) more.

My true colours are Czech, so I will cheer for my players without worrying at all about your assessment of me. If you can't see why a Czech person would not be a fan of what the Senators have done over the past season or two, then that's not really my concern... (Oh, and yes I am a big pro-Bush guy too).

At any rate, before you say I'm the only one being anti-anything here, read the thread. I'm as anti-Heatley as anyone is anti-Hossa. His heart has been questioned, his toughness, and now his professional ethics and greed. Quite frankly I'm a little surprised at your comment. I guess it seems like I'm the only one anti something here because I seem to be the most staunch Hossa supporter and I'm against this stupid trade.

Oh, and I despise the state of the North American game... Bring back the 80s, but now with this large number of Europeans, and you'll see the best hockey ever played.

Dan

[mberube]

Your comments confuse me. You're saying Hossa should have MORE points because he played on a better team? That's kind of strange. Normally what tends to happen is that a good player on a crap team will get TONS of points because there's nobody else there to get them. Because Hossa played on a team with so much depth, he was used with Arvedson and Bonk as a checking line during his first two seasons. You don't get points from line 3 normally.

As for my assumptions about hockey fans knowing or not knowing about hockey, anyone who says Hossa was ineffective in the playoffs has essentially taken the guesswork out of that...

The funniest part of this is that I'm actually holding back a lot of commentary...

Dan

Oh I get, bad team = good player scoring all the goals. Good team = good player standing back and look at the other players scoring goals cause there are so many goals a team can score every game and I can’t take then all. That’s ridicules.

The Oilers I think had 5 50 goals scores in a single season. Nobody stood back those teams. Lemieux and and Jagr had a few good seasons together with a more then decent team. Sakic, forsburg, Tanguay, Drury…….The list goes on.

Never said that Hossa was ineffective in the PO, just stated they should be better for his level of talent and the teams talent.

[jeffc]

forget it. Dan sees things one way and one way only. you have more chance convincing the wall you sit beside of anything.

[LobWedge]

Anti-euros. Your the only one that has been anti anything in these posts. Most people have agreed that Hossa is the . Personally I'm not the biggest fan of this trade. To me Hossa was our franchise player who was capable of taking us all the way. I'm not sure Heatley is. Either way it's a financial trade. I'm surprised you can't see that. Regardless don't cheer for the Sens and cheer for some American team. Shows your true colours (color for you) more.

I don't see this as a money trade at all. Financially the deals are comparable. The bottom line is that Muckler and Murray are Canadian hockey guys. They are, or have been, hip deep in our national program for years. Heatley wanted out of Atlanta and Muckler took the bait.