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Thread: Drop Area
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08-22-2005 01:59 PM #1AndreMGuest
Drop Area
This incident happened on #17 (Par 3) - Le Sorcier.
Player hit tee shot into the woods which are not staked. Player hits a provisional and then upon reaching the green realizes that there is a drop area. He then hits from the Drop area, ignoring the provisionl ball. Wht stroke is being played from the drop area ?
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08-22-2005 09:44 PM #2Originally Posted by AndreM
If he does not correct the mistake by playing the correct ball before making a stroke at the next teeing ground, he is disqualified.
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08-23-2005 06:29 AM #3
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Could you clarify a little for me. This is how I understand it. Because he hit a provisional that becomes his ball in play unless he finds his ball in the woods. Correct? Hitting the provisional takes precedent over finding a drop area to play from, am I correct in assuming this? And as for correcting before teeing off on the next hole, do you mean he should finnish the previous hole with his provisional ball rather than the one from the drop area? But what if he picked up the provisional ball to play the drop area ball? Thanks.
"A life lived in fear of the new and the untried is not a life lived to its fullest." M.Pare 10/09/08
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08-23-2005 09:58 PM #4Originally Posted by Geoff Johnston
If the original ball is lost outside a water hazard or is out of bounds, the provisional ball becomes the ball in play, under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1).
Originally Posted by Geoff Johnston
If this "drop area" was intended for a ball lost in the woods, then the golf course has been illegally marked and the matter should be brought to the attention of the R.C.G.A.
Courses CANNOT "stake out" wooded areas and pretend they are water hazards.
Originally Posted by Geoff Johnston
The player has incurred two penalty strokes for playing the wrong ball and an additional penalty stroke for picking up his provisional ball (the ball in play).
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08-23-2005 11:59 PM #5Originally Posted by Gary Hill[COLOR=green][B]Golf is a game invented by the same people who think music comes out of bagpipes.[/B][/COLOR]
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08-24-2005 08:23 AM #6Originally Posted by Gary Hill
Is that permitted?
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08-24-2005 08:53 AM #7
They are usually staked blue or green. You are NOT allowed to retrieve or play your ball in such areas. Drop at point of entry to the area. One stroke penalty.
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08-24-2005 09:05 AM #8Originally Posted by jvincent
These areas can only be designated by an appropriate authoritive agency (Environment Canada, Ducks Unlimited, etc.).
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08-24-2005 10:47 AM #9Originally Posted by Gary HillWhen applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.
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08-24-2005 10:52 AM #10Originally Posted by LobWedge
Golf course owners are in the business of getting the maximum number of players around the course in the shortest possible time. Few are interested in golf, the correct application of the Rules of Golf, or any golfers concerns once they get their money (rakes in bunkers, course conditions, proper markings, etc.)
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08-24-2005 10:59 AM #11Originally Posted by Gary Hill
How is one supposed to know the difference?
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08-24-2005 11:07 AM #12Originally Posted by jvincent
(ie. The Committee on its own cannot declare an area to be an environmentally-sensitive area).
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08-24-2005 11:37 AM #13
Let me re-phrase.
How does a golfer know that an area marked by the Committee is an "officially" designated sensitive area vs. an incorrectly declared area?
Without some other piece of information, the casual golfer, AKA pretty much all of us here, can't know the difference.
I assume that for RCGA sanctioned events all of the course markings will be checked / corrected, but how about local tournaments?
The example that comes to mind is the Citizen tournament. Stonebridge #4 has a ESA down the left side. I have no idea if it is official or not.
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08-24-2005 11:49 AM #14Originally Posted by jvincent
If an area has been marked as an environmentallly-sensitive area, then the golfer may NOT enter the area under ANY circumstances.
It is only a significant point to myself (as a Rules official) that some courses mark areas as envirionmentally-sensitive areas when they are simply trying to prohibit play from these areas (nurseries and the like).
This practice decreases the significance of truly envirionmentally-sensitive areas.
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08-24-2005 01:01 PM #15Originally Posted by Gary Hill
Declare the area GUR or is there a more appropriate local rule?
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08-24-2005 01:19 PM #16Originally Posted by jvincent[COLOR=green][B]Golf is a game invented by the same people who think music comes out of bagpipes.[/B][/COLOR]
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08-24-2005 01:35 PM #17Originally Posted by jvincent
This is the usual designation for flower gardens, nurseries, clubhouses, patios, etc.
Out of Bounds is not normally used because of the penalty.
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08-24-2005 01:45 PM #18Originally Posted by Gary Hill
Now, if I read the rules correctly, if I hit into an area designated as above, I can take relief from the point where it last crossed into the GUR WITHOUT penalty. In order for me to do this I have to be certain that the ball is in the GUR otherwise I have to follow the standard lost ball procedure.
Correct?
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08-24-2005 02:14 PM #19
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To anticipate Gary if I may, yes.
However, if the area is simply declared GUR, you may take relief. If the area is declared GUR from which play is prohibited, you must take relief.
I think that some courses take the ESA route because they wish to keep players out of the area completely. I can't see why they don't simply declare the area GUR play prohibited (as Gary said above) and then post notices prohibiting entry to the area.
If the player cannot then identify his ball, he can still take relief without penalty (in most cases) under Rule 25-1c.
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08-24-2005 02:28 PM #20Originally Posted by jvincent
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08-24-2005 04:51 PM #21Originally Posted by Gary HillWhen applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.
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08-26-2005 12:54 AM #22BarnieGuest
Pakenham golf course on the Canyon track (I think it's Canyon) #9 is a par 5 with a area in front of the green that you can't hit out of. It's the one with telephone wires hanging above with the bridge to the green. For some reason I recall that being an environmentally friendly area? If so, then your saying that's a free drop out of there?
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08-26-2005 07:00 AM #23Originally Posted by Barnie
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08-26-2005 10:58 AM #24
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Originally Posted by Barnie
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08-26-2005 11:02 AM #25
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Originally Posted by Barnieb. Environmentally-Sensitive Areas
If an appropriate authority (i.e., a Government Agency or the like) prohibits entry into and/or play from an area on or adjoining the course for environmental reasons, the Committee should make a Local Rule clarifying the relief procedure.
The Committee has some discretion in terms of whether the area is defined as ground under repair, a water hazard or out of bounds. However, it may not simply define such an area to be a water hazard if it does not meet the Definition of a “ Water Hazard ” and it should attempt to preserve the character of the hole.
The following Local Rule is recommended:
“I. Definition
An environmentally-sensitive area is an area so declared by an appropriate authority, entry into and/or play from which is prohibited for environmental reasons. These areas may be defined as ground under repair, a water hazard, a lateral water hazard or out of bounds at the discretion of the Committee provided that, in the case of an environmentally-sensitive area that has been defined as a water hazard or a lateral water hazard, the area is, by Definition, a water hazard.
Note: The Committee may not declare an area to be environmentally-sensitive.
Depending on how the Committee defines the area, there may or may not be a penalty.
The rule re relief and penalties appropriate to the condition applies
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08-28-2005 08:52 AM #26
At the time this incident occured at le Sorcier, the score card indicated that the ditches at #17 (there are 3 of them) were considered GUR. The ball seems to have been lost into the woods... not in the ditches or in the dried-up marsh that separates the tee-off from the green.
Provisional is in play. Period. Forget the drop area.
Nevertheless...two of the ditches are now filled and covered with brand new grass. But you will still have to carry the 100 yards of dried marsh to reach the green. This is why the drop area will keep on being busy.[COLOR=Sienna][SIZE=2][FONT=Palatino Linotype]If you bury my ashes on a golf course, just make sure that they are out of bounds, that will be a natural continuation to my life[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]
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08-28-2005 10:50 AM #27Originally Posted by 3295
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08-28-2005 11:09 AM #28
The ditches are still under construction, having been dug to install drain pipes. They will all be covered with turf once the pipes are in, as has been done on 17. For now all such ditches at Sorcier are considered gur.
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08-28-2005 11:45 AM #29Originally Posted by Dan Kilbank
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08-28-2005 11:54 AM #30
The point is that the ditches ARE the GUR. They are not natural ditches. They are in the process of installing pipes and covering them.
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