Pace of Play

**BC MIST** · 08-10-2005 07:45 PM

In the City & District Championship on Monday at Camelot it took us 5:45 h to complete the round once we started and we were 45 minutes late teeing off. For the second round at Kanata on Tuesday it took 5:15 h to play and we were 15 minutes late starting. Admittedly, both courses played very long and the ever popular fescue rough swallowed more than its shafr of golf balls. With brutally hot days for both, this pace of play took its toll on a lot of the players both physically and score wise.

Today at the Royal Ottawa, our third round was completed in 3:58 h, was one of the fastest tournament rounds in recent memory and was thoroughly enjoyable without all the constant waiting. Sure, the field had only the 24 who qualified for this last round, however, the groups were still threesomes, but everyone just hit the ball and walked, and the scores were actually quite good overall.

This shows that there is no real benefit to "looking at a putt from all sides," lining the ball to the hole with the line one has drawn on the ball and taking 4 practice strokes. Have a quick look and hit it and everyone would score just as well, enjoy the game more and get home before the 11 O'clock News. Worst offenders? The 20 year olds.

I must admit though, that playing the Royal Ottawa is such a treat, that one just does not want the round to end.

**jvincent** · 08-10-2005 07:58 PM

Holy slow times Batman!

Just curious, do they put people/groups on the clock in the local competitions?

**greenvale** · 08-10-2005 08:00 PM

who won?? The city

**Colby** · 08-11-2005 12:12 AM

I love BC's rules on pace of play...

http://www.bcga.org/pace.cfm

**EDSGOLF** · 08-11-2005 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by Colby

I love BC's rules on pace of play...

http://www.bcga.org/pace.cfm

You may not have time for a "#1", let alone a "#2"

**beefstuf** · 08-11-2005 02:29 PM

I think that every age group is equally responsible for slow play. I do take some time preparing to putt, but I know my line well before I have to putt. I use the time in between shots to prepare. By the time it is my turn to putt I just need to step up and commit. The only ones to blame for slow play are the ppl who play 4 shots off the tee and then still hit it in the bush. Hit one shot take a provisiional and if you cannot get it on the short grass then drop, and drop it well.

Anyways I am in my 20's and try my hardest to be conscience of good time, good speed and those behind me. I do not speak for everyone, but I speak for myself and alot of my playing friends.

Cheers,

Justin

**1972Apex** · 08-11-2005 03:08 PM

If it makes you feel any better Justin, most of the time when I'm held up it's by some 'old fart' group...

**beefstuf** · 08-11-2005 03:13 PM

LOL, I feel suprisingly better, thank you Reid. I think people are just mad at me for finding their Pro V1's

**Kilroy** · 08-11-2005 03:41 PM

Why some people feel it's nessesary to "blame" any generalized group is beyond me. It's a silly attempt to create a steriotype that just does not exist. I have seen slow and fast players of all kinds.

**Frewcrew** · 08-11-2005 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by Colby

I love BC's rules on pace of play...

http://www.bcga.org/pace.cfm

I feel BC’s rule is unfair, as it penalizes the entire group if they are out of position.

**John** · 08-11-2005 08:20 PM

"Worst offenders? The 20 year olds." Are you talking about twenty years old in general holding things up, or just during the tournament?

**1972Apex** · 08-11-2005 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by Dan Kilbank

Why some people feel it's nessesary to "blame" any generalized group is beyond me. It's a silly attempt to create a steriotype that just does not exist. I have seen slow and fast players of all kinds.

Actually I was trying to make that point jokingly by taking the opposite end of the 'young guys' being slow spectrum. Sorry if it was over your head

I think beefstuf got it though

**BC MIST** · 08-11-2005 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by Dan Kilbank

Why some people feel it's nessesary to "blame" any generalized group is beyond me. It's a silly attempt to create a steriotype that just does not exist. I have seen slow and fast players of all kinds.

The blame to which I am referring is based on personal observation of the very young players with whom I have played in the last 10 to 15 years or so in OVGA, the City & Disrtict championship is one of these, and QGA tournaments. While they are excellent players, some of whom have been on some sort of golf scholarship, many are unusually slow. While not exclusively responsible for the slow play, the younger players are principally responsible.

Thirty plus years ago the pace of play in the Alexander of Tunis tournament, for example, was such that we finished our rounds from 3:30 h to 4:00 h. Today, it takes 4:30 to 5:15 for the same tournament, and that is with officials supposedly supervising the pace of play.

I also play in OVGA and one RCGA seniors tournament, you know, the "old farts," referred to above, and their/our pace of play is a lot faster, and we take more strokes to do so. Again, this is based on personal observation.

So while you may feel that blaming any generalized group,... is a a silly attempt to create a steriotype that just does not exist, is beyond you, perhaps if you had seen their slow play over an extended period of time as I have, in the context described above, then perhaps you would have have not judged me so harshly. If opinions based on observations and facts have no validity, then on what should meaningful opinions be based? Hearsay?

**Kilroy** · 08-12-2005 05:33 AM

Whatever you say BC. I suppose all other steriotypes are just as valid. Are you from the South?

OK, twenty somethings are slow. Old farts would zip around the course if they kept those damn kids off the course. Slow play solved. Glad I'm an old fart.

Reid I could see that yours was a joke.

**1972Apex** · 08-12-2005 06:12 AM

Thanks Dan. I was worried you thought I was serious but I guess you already know I am darn near in the 'old fart' category myself LOL!

**BC MIST** · 08-12-2005 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by Dan Kilbank

Whatever you say BC. I suppose all other steriotypes are just as valid. Are you from the South?
OK, twenty somethings are slow. Old farts would zip around the course if they kept those damn kids off the course. Slow play solved. Glad I'm an old fart.

Do you understand the context about which I made my "worst offender" comment? Do you understand that that it was based on both seeing and actually timing a number of players over a number of years? If you have you ever gone to watch one of these local tournaments, is it possible that you might observe the same pattern that I have? If you did notice that the younger players seemed slower than many others would that still be S T E R E O T Y P I N G?

Of course, you chose to take my comments as pigeon holing all young golfers into the slow category and that was not what I was indicating at all. Perhaps before you criticize my observation, telling me that it is "silly" and "it does not exist," you should have some proof that it does not. I find it ironic that you make an ignorant comment about my possibly being from the south. Are they not supposed to be the folks who are close minded and who make judgements without having any proof?

**The Shtick** · 08-12-2005 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by BC MIST

The blame to which I am referring is based on personal observation of the very young players with whom I have played in the last 10 to 15 years or so in OVGA, the City & Disrtict championship is one of these, and QGA tournaments. While they are excellent players, some of whom have been on some sort of golf scholarship, many are unusually slow. While not exclusively responsible for the slow play, the younger players are principally responsible.

You gotta be kidding me. Up until last year, I was the youngest player in OVGA "B" Class play (by far) and almost every round was over the 6 hour mark. Trust me, I was not slow. Others were.

The only thing I can think of that might make you think that the younger guys are slower is that they hit further (generally speaking) and have to wait longer to play. You can't blame them for that, can you??

**Kilroy** · 08-12-2005 08:35 AM

So by your logic If I see a several Martians playing slowly and ignore the ones who play quickly, and several Earthlings playing quickly and ignore the ones who play slowly, its fair to say that Martians play slowly.

That's pretty simple. What makes you think I misunderstood you?

My refrence to being from the South was a toung in cheek refrence to prejudice, which thrived there until most people smartened up.

**beefstuf** · 08-12-2005 09:15 AM

I think if we blame the equipment then we have resolution. I know that when I golf slow play is due to my equipment, sweaty glove, broken tee, wet grip, dirt on the face, dirt on the ball. That is the only reason that I play slow.
So I guess we should just say "IT is all the equipment's fault."

**Pinshark** · 08-16-2005 09:34 PM

SLOOOOOOOOOW PLAY....is there anything worse for your game than waiting behind a group of slow players? My last 2 rounds (one at Pineview and the other at Emerald Links) were both over 5 hours due to 1 GROUP of people on both occasions. I must say both courses had marshalls out and not doing ANYTHING!!!!! so PLEASE people WALK FASTER!!!! I have and continue to play with golfers of all abilities and you can shoot a round of 100 or more and finish in under 4.5 hours. so people please play ready golf putt out and take those gimmies.....

**Golfpeasant** · 08-16-2005 10:58 PM

I find the "old farts", and I'm not one yet, do tend to play faster, but only because off the tee, they're usually 150-200 yards straight down the middle (no offence to the scratch competitors, I'm talking joe-blow-weekend golfer like me), and never get in trouble. Fast, overall, yes they tend to be. They grab a club and hit quickly usually because they know theres no decision to make: there not going to make the green so they don't try.

Then I've been behind groups, old and young, where its ridiculous...they don't even take their clubs out of their bags til the green is clear... we've had endless discussions about this, and it'll never change...

So far, my best solution has been to golf on mondays-wednesdays, and early-early on weekends. Otherwise, its break out the beer time.

Competitive golf? Sure doesn't look fast on TV either...how many times have we seen Phil/Tiger waiting for a few minutes between shots. Well if they're slow....

**Colby** · 08-17-2005 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by Golfpeasant

Competitive golf? Sure doesn't look fast on TV either...how many times have we seen Phil/Tiger waiting for a few minutes between shots. Well if they're slow....

And that's the big problem I think. I've been behind people, and played with people, who stalk every putt like they are about to win the Masters. The look at it from all sides, a couple of practice putts, a look from behind again, and then they finally putt.

The other issue that I see a lot is waiting on the par 5's for their second shot. They hit their tee shot maybe 230-240, and they have close to 260-270 to the green, and they wait. When the green finally clears, they hit and get nowhere close to the green.

Oh well. /rant off

**Golfpeasant** · 08-17-2005 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Colby

And that's the big problem I think. I've been behind people, and played with people, who stalk every putt like they are about to win the Masters. The look at it from all sides, a couple of practice putts, a look from behind again, and then they finally putt.

The other issue that I see a lot is waiting on the par 5's for their second shot. They hit their tee shot maybe 230-240, and they have close to 260-270 to the green, and they wait. When the green finally clears, they hit and get nowhere close to the green.

Oh well. /rant off

I face this all the time. No one in front, I finish a round in 3-4 hours on foot, closer to 3. Now I try to distract myself by chipping a ball while waiting...helps a lot. I go nuts if I stare at people in front of me.

**Eldred** · 08-17-2005 04:29 PM

On a short par 4, the group ahead is putting on the green, would the group behind be allowed to tee off? My ball caught a big tail wind and then ran up some 40 yards to gentle roll on green 298 yards away. I don't normally even have 250 yrds length but this one was combination of good contact, big wind, firm fairway. Anyways, couple of people on the green were waving with disapproval.

**jvincent** · 08-17-2005 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by Eldred

On a short par 4, the group ahead is putting on the green, would the group behind be allowed to tee off? My ball caught a big tail wind and then ran up some 40 yards to gentle roll on green 298 yards away. I don't normally even have 250 yrds length but this one was combination of good contact, big wind, firm fairway. Anyways, couple of people on the green were waving with disapproval.

For a 300 yard par 4, where the ball rolls up, I personally wouldn't be mad. If you honestly don't think you can get a ball to where a person is hitting, then don't hit. If you think you can reach them, then don't hit. Balls LANDING near me, I get annoyed at.

While it is true that most people don't hit it as far as they think, better safe than sorry. I don't find that particular behaviour to be a big slowdown. Taking too long on the greens, excruciatingly long pre-short routines, and not being ready to hit when it's safe are the bigger problems.

**Colby** · 08-17-2005 05:21 PM

I don't mind a ball rolling up after a drive 300 yards away. It's not like you flew it into the group, and hopefully it's not something that you had been doing all round. Once you get up there, apologize, and usually everything is cool.

**Golfpeasant** · 08-17-2005 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by Eldred

On a short par 4, the group ahead is putting on the green, would the group behind be allowed to tee off? My ball caught a big tail wind and then ran up some 40 yards to gentle roll on green 298 yards away. I don't normally even have 250 yrds length but this one was combination of good contact, big wind, firm fairway. Anyways, couple of people on the green were waving with disapproval.

I also don't care about balls rolling...theres no danger there, and at 300, if you know you can't hit it that far on the fly, don't worry about it.

**stinger** · 08-17-2005 08:09 PM

I just played in a recent tournament roud that took 7 hours on the GAO side of things. Let me tell you that my brain was cooked when we hit the 5h30 mark, doubled the last half of the back nine!!!^&*()
Pace of play could easily be solved if the courses didn't go so gun'ho on fescue. What happened to clearing under the trees (like Loch March or the Royal)? I can understand that most courses don't have much to protect them other than the weather, but fescue that is above the knee would only be good for a british open final round, not an amateur event...
Other note, the organizers could add marshalls on most holes to save everyone from looking through the fescue or the unkept bushyrough under the trees thingy....
my 10 pennies..

**Thunder** · 08-17-2005 08:17 PM

I think that what BC Mist is trying to say...is that the young players of today, the one's on scholarships or the ones that want to be on scholarships are the culprets in slow play. Not all of them but the vast majority. You see, they are usualyy a 1 - 5 handicap but think that they are Pro-0 handicap. The problem with this is that they analize every little piece of the puzzle and yet they still can't execute like a Pro. There is a huge difference between a Tour Pro and a 20 year old 3 handicap. Like 10 shots in tournament play and if we played the same course as the pro's, it would probably be more like 20 shots. So all you 20 year olds, don't take it personally what BC said, just take a look at the big picture. Hit it, find it and hit it again. It makes the game alot easier and more enjoyable.

**BullDog** · 08-18-2005 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Eldred

On a short par 4, the group ahead is putting on the green, would the group behind be allowed to tee off? My ball caught a big tail wind and then ran up some 40 yards to gentle roll on green 298 yards away. I don't normally even have 250 yrds length but this one was combination of good contact, big wind, firm fairway. Anyways, couple of people on the green were waving with disapproval.

I wouldn't think twice of it if it were that far and it was the first time. If a pattern formed and it happened a few times..

I've done it myself... I can't remember when or where, but this year I hit THROUGH a green on a par 5. I was playing for the chip shot but dry ground, a bit of wind and a perfect swing all added up to bouncing in front of the green and rolling through to the back.

Another time - #10 at Mountain Creek - I always hit 4 iron there to give me a 70 yard approach. Well after having played at least 30-40 games there, I somehow hit it right on the screws with a right to left wind and the ball ended up on the green.

Just a few weeks ago I was hitting my relatively blind drive on 18 at Mountain Creek -- it measures 362 yards with water "short left" with about 180-190 to carry and water "long right" with about 265 to carry or roll past. I know that once you see heads moving and their related bodies become visible, they're at least 280 yards away. I've driven it past the water on the right maybe a half dozen times, but only barely. That day there was a tail wind and I CRUSHED a ball right up the middle. It ended up a couple of feet ONTO the green. It likely rolled by the group as they were pitching/chipping on the green. When I walked up and couldn't see my ball in the fairway and saw that "they left a ball behind" as they walked off, I checked to see if it was mine and ran over to apologize.

They knew it was my drive - they looked back. What can they do? Even the pro hadn't heard of anyone driving that green before. It was the day I broke 80 for the first time so everything was almost perfect all through the round. I just happened to hit the drive of a lifetime right there. They congratulated me on a stupid long drive.

Had I driven into them a half dozen times through the round, they would have been likely to throw the ball into the creek or pounded it back at me as I walked up the fairway.

EVERYONE knows that every once in a while, somebody will hit a shot 20-60 yards farther than they ever have. They usually understand.

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