USGA/R&A Announcement Allowing Rangefinders

[LobWedge]

This pretty much covers how I feel about the whole "electronic devices" issue.

http://www.rbcinvest.theglobeandmail...03/RUBE03.html

[Kilroy]

So what's the problem? Tour golfers, to cite a rather prominent group, have long been using yardage books. It often appears they're calibrated to the inch. They're so detailed that a novice would have a problem deciphering them. The same goes for many of the detailed books courses provide golfers. Still, the point is that golfers for years had access to information about distances to hazards and targets.

If every course provided such detailed information and kept it up to date I might agree. But they don't and without it we are left to guesstimate. A pin at the back of a large green is much farther away than a pin at the back of a small green.
It's just information and Lorne is entitled to his opinion just like everyone else.

Having said that, I do understand that technology is making courses too short for the pros, but not for the millions who play casual golf. I have always felt that there should be 2 tiers of rules as there are in so many other sports.

[LobWedge]

If every course provided such detailed information and kept it up to date I might agree. But they don't and without it we are left to guesstimate. A pin at the back of a large green is much farther away than a pin at the back of a small green.

How far exactly does the average golfer hit, lets say, a 7-iron? A 3-iron? A driver? Do they hit them exactly the same distance every time? Of course not.

Alternately, lets take a 150 yard shot. Using whatever club you would normally use from that distance, and just for argument's sake, we'll draw a line at 150 yards radius across your target green to give some margin of error for direction. Drop 100 balls and hit away. How many times do you think that you'll get within 3 yards of the target distance? How about 5 yards? I bet that your average would be less than 5%.

What if your target is slightly uphill. Do you hit the same club with 104% effort, or do you hit one more club at 98%?

No matter what manufacturers try to tell you, golf is not an exact science. Bobby Jones is proof of this.

Distance measuring devices are just another useless psuedo-crutch that give us an excuse to place blame on something other than ourselves when things go wrong.

Pros hit shots with higher precision, in spite of the yardage information that they are given, because they spend lots of time at the range where exact yardages are available. Manufacturers have you thinking that you will play better if you have more information readily at hand. It doesn't work that way.

If I may borrow a line from the En Vogue song, "free your mind, and the rest will follow."

[el tigre]

Distance measuring devices are just another useless psuedo-crutch that give us an excuse to place blame on something other than ourselves when things go wrong.

Pros hit shots with higher precision, in spite of the yardage information that they are given, because they spend lots of time at the range where exact yardages are available. Manufacturers have you thinking that you will play better if you have more information readily at hand. It doesn't work that way.

Umm, okay - but what does that have to do with whether they should be legal or not? Geez, manufacturers have been telling us we can play better with their products for a long time. There are certainly no shortages of "psuedo-crutches" out there that are perfectly legal under the Rule of Golf. And just for the record, I play much better when I have accurate yardage information readily at hand.

I found Lorne Rubenstein's article to be rather humourous, especially this part:

The problem is simply that the governing bodies of golf have taken another step down a slippery slope. More and more golfers are being trained not to rely on their own senses. This can take away from the pleasure a golfer takes in the game, which derives from dependence on oneself, not an outside agency.

That pleasure is gradually being eroded. As time goes on, very few golfers -- if any remain now -- will go with their own eyes rather than the number on a range finder.

Geez Lorne, you're pining for a time that never was. Does he actually think golfers "guessed" their yardages with their own eyes? What does he think caddies were for? Does he believe that yardage books are a new invention? Does he think pacing off from the 150-yard marker is "using your senses"? How far does he really want to turn back the clock?

[LobWedge]

Umm, okay - but what does that have to do with whether they should be legal or not? Geez, manufacturers have been telling us we can play better with their products for a long time. There are certainly no shortages of "psuedo-crutches" out there that are perfectly legal under the Rule of Golf. And just for the record, I play much better when I have accurate yardage information readily at hand.

I found Lorne Rubenstein's article to be rather humourous, especially this part:

The problem is simply that the governing bodies of golf have taken another step down a slippery slope. More and more golfers are being trained not to rely on their own senses. This can take away from the pleasure a golfer takes in the game, which derives from dependence on oneself, not an outside agency.

That pleasure is gradually being eroded. As time goes on, very few golfers -- if any remain now -- will go with their own eyes rather than the number on a range finder.

Geez Lorne, you're pining for a time that never was. Does he actually think golfers "guessed" their yardages with their own eyes? What does he think caddies were for? Does he believe that yardage books are a new invention? Does he think pacing off from the 150-yard marker is "using your senses"? How far does he really want to turn back the clock?

I find it interesting that society is lashing out against the use of performance enhancing drugs in sport, yet we all want more "juiced up" equipment.

What he's essentially saying is that if you want golf to be that precise then why don't you just play TW PGA Tour on your PC or console. Why bother going out to the golf course at all? The enjoyment in golf should be in just playing the game. Feeling the sun on your face. Being with friends, or making new ones.

I'm not a religious person, but I do "feel" some kind of spiritual connection when I play golf. Sure I get frustrated when I hit an errant shot. We all do. But it's all part of the game of golf. All of this extraneous technology IMHO, just takes away from the experience.

[THUNDAH]

If i was a tour pro I'd use a range finder on the range. I wouldn't have my caddie pace off my shots anymore.
Tour pros are fitted with the best equipment using the most modern technology available. If i was a tour pro, I would want ll my golf balls to be perfectly round with the exact same compression. I'd have my shafts x-rayed for flaws, i'd have my shoes custom fitted etc.
Even with all this given, the tour pro relies on his senses to hit the shots, and until we all become bionic clones it's what will set players apart.

[Kilroy]

Interesting comments on TV by Faldo and Azinger... Both in favour of allowing rangefinders. Azinger said he never plays without one at home. Faldo said he has no problem with it, since it's just yardages and you don't have to play a practice round and take a lot of notes to play a new course.
These guys are used to having correct numbers. Why should we peons be denied accurate yardages?

[Gary Hill]

I really like Nick Faldo.

He was especially good as Indian Jones in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

[Kilroy]

??? Wasn't that Harrison Ford? Just a Faldo look-alike methinks.

I guess you feel Nick is juat an actor or a wannabe? Not sure I agree, but I guess we know where you stand on rangefinders Gary.

[Nat Williams]

The notion that golf was meant to be played with help only from a caddy and one's senses...

As far as I'm concerned, my Range Finder is my Caddie...

This is something that has always bothered me, caddies are welcome in tournaments, but not all people can afford a caddie. How is that fair?

If I were rich I'd have a great caddy, and it would be a major advantage because I'd send him out to measure EVERYTHING ... this means in addition to yardages, he'd have mapped the greens, tested the sand in all the traps, he'd know where to avoid due to conditions etc etc... In addition, he knows my game, can calm me down, help me with my course management, read putts and so on.

But since I'm not rich, I spent 400$ on a really nice Range Finder that can do 1/10th of a caddie's job and people are saying I shouldn't be allowed to...

give me a break, or buy me a caddie!

[Kilroy]

Good post Nat. At this point they can't say much against it anymore. It may take a whole generation before every one has one and the debate is moot. I don't believe it will ruin the game. It's just correct yardages after all.

It might be a good time to buy shares in Bushnell.

[NoBack]

But since I'm not rich, I spent 400$ on a really nice Range Finder that can do 1/10th of a caddie's job and people are saying I shouldn't be allowed to

Ok so you have the $400 to buy one but I dont. So YOU have an advantage now dont you. tsk tsk tsk how fair is that????

[Kilroy]

Just about as fair as buying a $700 driver compared to a $300 driver. But that has been brought up before.

[NoBack]

[Nat Williams]

Ok so you have the $400 to buy one but I dont. So YOU have an advantage now dont you. tsk tsk tsk how fair is that????

I'm not saying it's fair, it will never be 100% in golf. The same argument could be made that it's unfair to walk a course in advance because not everyone can afford to do that given work schedules, time restraints etc...and as Dan says, it's not fair to have a nicer driver than me...to get custom fitted etc etc...and these things will be unavoidable.

What I find is truly unfair is to allow one thing and not the other... What I'm arguing is that if a caddy is allowed, then similar aids that do not exceed a caddie's abilities should also be allowed. This includes Pre walking the course, practice rounds, course books, green slope maps and range finders...currently all of those things are accepted by the golfing community except the range finder, and that just doesn't make any sense to me.

[NoBack]

Fair enough arguments, but I still believe in "old time" principles. My 15th club will never be some new aged gadget that only the elite can afford. You cant buy experience. I play golf with feel and sight. I may be wrong at times and thats fine with me. I have played with Dan and have tried to use that rangefinder only to be told "it might not pick up the flag but the mound to the right and behind the green. Or the guy on the green walking away from the flag".
Come on, how accurate can that be??? I have heard the yardage given from the rangefinders. only to hit it 20 yards past the flag because of this information.
IMO NO THANKS.

[jvincent]

I have played with Dan and have tried to use that rangefinder only to be told "it might not pick up the flag but the mound to the right and behind the green. Or the guy on the green walking away from the flag".
Come on, how accurate can that be??? I have heard the yardage given from the rangefinders. only to hit it 20 yards past the flag because of this information.
IMO NO THANKS.

That's why you need a GPS unit.

You don't even need line of sight so if you're behind trees, on another fairway, in your backyard, you'll get an accurate distance to whatever you've marked.

For the courses I play regularly, I've recorded as a minimum front/middle/back of the greens, plus any edges if it's an irregular shape. Add in some lay up and tee shot targets, and you're set to go.

It takes about two rounds to completely mark a course if you've defined the targets before hand.

[NoBack]

That's why you need a GPS unit.

Thats missing the whole point - I DONT WANT IT. I use my own judgment of distances. That's it that's all.

[bbad]

I think people put too much faith into range finders now..Was playing with a friend of mine who had a new "fangled" device and was using it on every shot. Whoever says that these will speed up play, hasn't played with the general masses that much. This guy was constantly using the finder to get the range, and half the time he trusted the number he got and then complained when he was too short or too long.

Numbers are one thing, but experience is the ultimate teacher. The range finders are amazing for giving you distances (factual) but experience will tell you how to play that distance - I don't think a RF will ever be able to tell you that.

With that being said, I have no problem with the use of them, but etiquette for them should be created so as to speed the game up. Sure it will speed up the guys who want to pace off the exact yardage, but I think the more they are used, the more people are going to want the exact yardage. We live in a lazy society (ever wonder why so many people cart?) and if they can get the info without having to walk, they will.. I think the only reason they are not walking off the paces is because most of them just don't want to waste the energy. If they now spend the time getting the RF out and then adjusting to get the number they want, how does that speed the game up?

JM2C

[Kilroy]

It does take a moment, but never more than 30 seconds. It takes longer to pace it off. Nobody paces every shot and there is no need to laser every shot either.
I only use it when I need to know how far to reach a landing area or carry a hazard, or to the pin on some approach shots. Even then, only when I am either unsure, or want validation of my estimate.

Does it slow you down? No way. I don't think it makes much difference at all to pace of play, but it definately would speed things up if you paced off every shot and started to use it instead.

Palm pilot GPS systems that you have to map the courses into are useless if you have never played and mapped or acquired a map for the course. I use the rangefinder less on courses I know for obvious reasons. It's usefullness on unframilliar terrain is one of it's strongest features.

It's a laser, it needs a vertical plane to get a reading. You can't always get a "ping" off the flag, so you sometimes have to look for a vertical surface. There are a few places on some courses where it's hard to find a surface to measure off of. If a guy is placing the pin in the hole and I measure his back, that's close enough for me.

I am all in favour of someone not wanting to use one, or using one. You now have a choice. If you won't play me for $1 a hole because I use one and you won't that's ok. We can still enjoy a game of golf.

By the way, with the exception of Steve virtually everyone I have played with when using the rangefinder likes it and wants to be told the yardage in a lot of situations.

[Andru]

Fair enough arguments, but I still believe in "old time" principles. My 15th club will never be some new aged gadget that only the elite can afford. You cant buy experience. I play golf with feel and sight. I may be wrong at times and thats fine with me. I have played with Dan and have tried to use that rangefinder only to be told "it might not pick up the flag but the mound to the right and behind the green. Or the guy on the green walking away from the flag".
Come on, how accurate can that be??? I have heard the yardage given from the rangefinders. only to hit it 20 yards past the flag because of this information.
IMO NO THANKS.

if bushnell triples it's sales of range finders there will be a $50 version in no time. That will no longer be a problem.

[ironmaster15213]

Well here is my two cents worth (and remember you get what you pay for) I have been using a laser rangefinder since they were legal to get handicaps with. I Knew that it was just around the corner when the golf course owners were equipping their carts with G.P.S. units. I knew people were using some of those rounds to establish their handicaps so something had to give and it did!!! Now I must say I love my rangefinder and it has helped make me a scratch player. I know how far I hit each club including easy and hard swings, also those neat little three quarter knock down shots. But that being said I have to tell you that for the average player its better not to know the exact yardage cause they will be short of the pin 85% of the time. At least if they go by scorecards and markers they'll be right 40% of the time cause the pins will be up front or the tee boxes will be forward thus tricking them into using the right club for that shot. Just remember if you have a rangefinder and use it regularly you should be past the pin as often as short of the pin with a well struck shot. If this does not describe your shot pattern then you have to rethink your yardages for you clubs. Best of luck to you

[bbad]

It does take a moment, but never more than 30 seconds. It takes longer to pace it off. Nobody paces every shot and there is no need to laser every shot either.
I only use it when I need to know how far to reach a landing area or carry a hazard, or to the pin on some approach shots. Even then, only when I am either unsure, or want validation of my estimate.

Does it slow you down? No way. I don't think it makes much difference at all to pace of play, but it definately would speed things up if you paced off every shot and started to use it instead.

Palm pilot GPS systems that you have to map the courses into are useless if you have never played and mapped or acquired a map for the course. I use the rangefinder less on courses I know for obvious reasons. It's usefullness on unframilliar terrain is one of it's strongest features.

It's a laser, it needs a vertical plane to get a reading. You can't always get a "ping" off the flag, so you sometimes have to look for a vertical surface. There are a few places on some courses where it's hard to find a surface to measure off of. If a guy is placing the pin in the hole and I measure his back, that's close enough for me.

I am all in favour of someone not wanting to use one, or using one. You now have a choice. If you won't play me for $1 a hole because I use one and you won't that's ok. We can still enjoy a game of golf.

By the way, with the exception of Steve virtually everyone I have played with when using the rangefinder likes it and wants to be told the yardage in a lot of situations.

Dan,
Appreciate the reply and thanks for the info.

If people in general are saying they are speeding things up, then that's a GOOD thing. When they come down in price, I will be buying one (or hoping that Santa Clause will fill my stocking).

As for playing against somebody with a RF, doesn't bother me...give me the time off and the fresh air and I don't care if I lose 9&8.....

Life's too short to take golf that seriously., unless I'm playing Colby and then I take beating him VERY seriously

[mberube]

An independent golf equipment testing company (which this writer relies on incessantly), Rankmark tested SkyGolf’s SkyCaddie and reported two major findings: improved scores of test participants on average of five shots per round and a time savings of 25 minutes per nine holes.

More recently, the Florida Open, with a few days to spare between their event and the rule reversal, quickly acted and instituted the Laser Link Quickshot, another major rangefinder product. All players in the field were provided with one of the company’s Quickshot’s prior to play.

The results were staggering. The leaders finished their rounds in four hours and fifteen minutes compared to previous years which took five hours and five minutes (on average) for a professional threesome.

“Faster is better for everyone, the players, the owners and even non-playing golf spouses,” says Rob O’Loughlin, president of Laser Link Golf. “If players can get fast and accurate yardage readings in two seconds rather than forty seconds of ‘hunting and figuring’ the game of golf benefits.”

Quote from:
http://www.scoregolf.com/articles/xx...n-the-mark.cfm