USGA/R&A Announcement Allowing Rangefinders

[jeffc]

The idea of taking away something like yardage markers and scoredcards is obviously not the same as laser rangefinders during competition. This is what I said was dumb. And I was as polite I could without laughing too much after I read his post.

You know my view on this already, as it has been debated before. If they allow them, good for those who can afford the $300 advantage in competition. And please dont try and convince me it is not an advantage, because it is.

So when isn't having more $ not an advantage in golf?

If all I have is $200 to spend on Canadian Tire Northwesterns and wear running shoes and you can afford custom fitted, analysed on a launch monitor, spinned, frequency matched, yada yada yada clubs with ProV1's, expensive super comfortable Foot Joys then I would say you definitely have the advantage over me.

[Gary Hill]

BTW - The main "theoretical" debate for allowing/not allowing rangefinders is:
Yardage markers measure distances to PERMANENT objects.
Rangefinders measure the distance to your BALL.

[AAA]

Ignoring for the moment the strictures of R14-3, if one player uses an RF to calculate the distance from a non-permanent object (his ball) to the green and a FC (whose own ball is adjacent) asks what the reading was and the player tells him, would they be they guilty of seeking and giving advice?

[Gary Hill]

Ignoring for the moment the strictures of R14-3, if one player uses an RF to calculate the distance from a non-permanent object (his ball) to the green and a FC (whose own ball is adjacent) asks what the reading was and the player tells him, would they be they guilty of seeking and giving advice?

No.

They would both be disqualified under Rule 14-3.

[Barnie]

Laser range finders in my opinion are weak. It completely takes out the guess work of how far you have and even the pro's with their caddies still have to make a calculated guess. Everyone has seen it on TV with the caddie saying one number and the player thinking another. The range finder takes out any uncertanties one may have which, in my opinion, may also affect the player's ability to make the shot. I know for fact if I am certain of a distance I'm much more at ease over my ball which ultimately will allow me to make an easier controlled swing.. One less thing to think about. Technology has done tremendous things for golf however it's getting to the point of being over the top. Take those rescue clubs for example. To me those clubs are making it way too easy for a player to hit a ball. Granted it makes golf more enjoyable for the beginner which is great however if you want to keep a legitimate handicapp I believe those shouldn't be allowed. I've seen guys who can't hit worth , shooting in the 110-140 range but be able to hit that one club almost every time. You can add belly putter's to the list as well if you wish. The question is is when does it all stop. I think BC Mist's example is great.. A device to read the greens has got to be next... Hell a caddy reads them for the player right.. Why shouldn't we have something that reads the them for us?? Also how about a homing device in the ball so we can find it when we lose it.. the players have the spectators to find theirs... never ends.... oh yeah and the comment about having an advantage of going to Golf-O-Max is ridiculous.

[AAA]

No.

They would both be disqualified under Rule 14-3.

Badly worded question. I meant, if rangefinders were to be allowed by the Ruling Bodies.

[Gary Hill]

Badly worded question. I meant, if rangefinders were to be allowed by the Ruling Bodies.

Sorry. Then yes.

Private information asked for or given between two players is advice.
(What club did you use, how far are you from the water hazard, do you think I should take an unplayable)

Public information is not.
(How long is this hole, is there a hazard beyond those trees, where is the beer cart)

[oldmaninblack]

I'm not sure that the laser rangefinders speed up play that much, but I'm absolutely convinced that the GPS does. Mine is attached to my 3-wheel cart so that I can glance down as I arrive at my ball and make a club selection almost instantly (because I'm already looking at elevation and wind)

The only difference I see between this and pacing the distance from the nearest "known" position is the time saving.

I think they should be legal anywhere. For now, before a tournament round I play a practice round or two with the GPS and write down distances from fixed locations. Same result, more time required.

[Big_duck]

Sorry. Then yes.

Private information asked for or given between two players is advice.
(What club did you use, how far are you from the water hazard, do you think I should take an unplayable)

Public information is not.
(How long is this hole, is there a hazard beyond those trees, where is the beer cart)

Is it legal to use a rangefinder to determine the location of the beer cart?

[mberube]

You can add all the gismos, gadgets and all the technology you want, the fact is that your 110-140 player will still shot the same score. Handicaps have not dropped in 40 year. Rangefinders will not change that.


If you marked the course properly or have a caddie at your service, there is no advantage in using a rangefinder. There is still a lot more thing to think about (Elevation, wind, temperature) and then executing the shot.

Question: Are GPS included in this ruling?

[Kilroy]

EMDs Electronic Measuring Devices. Includes lasers, GPS, palm pilot maps etc.

[mberube]

EMDs Electronic Measuring Devices. Includes lasers, GPS, palm pilot maps etc.

[jvincent]

This reminds me Mike, what's your availability to see my GPS unit in action?

[mberube]

This reminds me Mike, what's your availability to see my GPS unit in action?

I have not forgotten dude. I just don’t have the time. I played only 12 pitiful games this season compared to 70 last years. That’s what fatherhood does to a guy. On the other hand, I enjoy every moment with my girls.

I have not played StoneBridge for a few years. I will PM you before the end of the season for a little game. You can count on that.

Thanks
Mike

[Golfbum]

I recently played Forest City National in London and all of the carts have GPS units on them. Was it helpful? You bet it was, yardages are displayed to the front of the greens, to the pins, to the bunkers beside the greens. It was neat to have that advantage.

Now do I think a laser range finder should be used in competition? NO it should not be used. PGA Caddies use them during practice rounds to get yardages but not during the tournaments. Should you be able to use on in your CLUB C? Again, NO. Part of the game of golf is figuring out the yardages, the wind factor etc etc. OK maybe I am a purist in that sense but I just feel it should not be allowed. Oh I know we all have forgiving irons, big honkin drivers with sweet spots the size of 3 golf balls! But we still have to swing em properly, and know the yardage to the green etc etc.

My buddy has one, we took it out on the course to varify some of the yardage markers and he has not used it out there since then. Will it speed play up? I don't think so. Imagine everyone in your foursome standing there with a range finder on every shot to the green? Is that going to speed play up?

The GPS units in those carts at FCN speed play up. You just drive the cart to your ball, look at the screen for your yardage. Pull your club and hit. Plus it also keeps track of your time on the course. During our round we gained 4 minutes on the front 9 time (4some) and 20 more minutes on the back 9.

Just my thoughts on this matter! I realize some people will not agree but hey I can live with that fact

[AAA]

the announcement would come after a regularly scheduled meeting of the two rules committees

What has been/is the RCGA's line ?

[floger]

I think the RCGA is only an affiliate to the R & A so doesn't make the rules.

[1dash1]

As anticipated, the R&A and USGA announced the conditions in which electronic measuring devices may be permitted:

"A noteworthy change is the governing bodies’ sanction of the use of distance measuring devices, including GPS-based systems and laser rangefinders. New Decision 14-3/0.5 allows a Committee to permit the use of distance-measuring devices by Local Rule. This applies to devices that measure distance only, not any other conditions that might affect a player’s play (e.g., wind or gradient). In the absence of such a Local Rule, the use of a distance-measuring device remains contrary to the Rules."

• http://www.randa.org/index.cfm?cfid=1147239&cftoken=80216000&action=news.newsDetail&newsid=623&id=
• http://www.usga.org/news/2005/September/2005_68.html

[oldmaninblack]

Welcome to the 21st century!

GPS units should be REQUIRED on the PGA tour ... have you ever seen a player pace off the distance to the green because he couldn't get a yardage? (happened in the President's cup ... A nice little 70 yd stroll).

The only difference between pacing distance from a known marker and using a GPS is TIME, and speeding up play should be the number 1 priority of tournament committees and players.

[el tigre]

Christmas in less than three months away. I hope that Steve Karam has been a good boy this year!

[Colby]

Christmas in less than three months away. I hope that Steve Karam has been a good boy this year!

I'm not sure he would use one if he got one! LMAO!!!

[1972Apex]

I'm not sure he would use one if he got one! LMAO!!!

I'm sure... he would NOT use one

[Chieflongtee]

This is a bit off topic and I am sorry but could not help it but most of you out there including myself should be more worried about the lofts in our clubs for any range finder to be effective. In order to get your 10-15 yards difference per club your irons have to be set apart 4 degrees apart. However all manufacturers have a+- degree of tolerance when clubs come out of the factory. Which means that you could have 2 clubs with only a 2 degree loft difference and 2 clubs with 6 degree loft difference. Since loft accounts for 80% in distance this means that you could have 2 clubs that hit the ball the same distance. So please get your lofts checked out before worrying about range finders. The investment will be worthwhile.

[el tigre]

This is a bit off topic and I am sorry but could not help it but most of you out there including myself should be more worried about the lofts in our clubs for any range finder to be effective. In order to get your 10-15 yards difference per club your irons have to be set apart 4 degrees apart. However all manufacturers have a+- degree of tolerance when clubs come out of the factory. Which means that you could have 2 clubs with only a 2 degree loft difference and 2 clubs with 6 degree loft difference. Since loft accounts for 80% in distance this means that you could have 2 clubs that hit the ball the same distance. So please get your lofts checked out before worrying about range finders. The investment will be worthwhile.

Ahh, Andre. No matter what the topic, we can always rely on YOU to tells us that custom fitting will solve all our problems!

First of all, the chances of having 2 clubs in an iron set that hit the ball the same distance is pretty slim, since club lengths get progressively longer as well. Even if your 5-iron and 6-iron had identical lofts (which itself would be extremely rare), your 5-iron would go farther because the shaft is generally 1/2" longer.

Secondly, the sole purpose of a rangefinder is to help me determine which club to pull out of the bag. I want to know whether I have 140, 150 or 160 yards to the pin before I make my decision and a rangefinder will tell me that. The fact that I might have 3 clubs to choose from for my 150-yard shot is really not the issue here, and if I had two clubs that went almost the same distance I would probably know that after a couple of sessions at the driving range.

Yes Andre, custom fitting is good. But I know from personal experience that I can totally SUCK with great equipment and play brilliantly with junk. Which REALLY makes you think about what is truly important in this game...

[Colby]

You got it Terry.

Proper instruction will teach you how to hit it properly. Practice will ingrain it. Properly fitted clubs will help your game, I've seen this, but you have to have the game first! It's a chicken or the egg thing. A few games tracking shots tells me how far I hit a certain club, and a range finder/GPS will tell me the distance I need to hit.

It's all part of the big puzzle.

[Chieflongtee]

. Technology has done tremendous things for golf however it's getting to the point of being over the top. Take those rescue clubs for example. To me those clubs are making it way too easy for a player to hit a ball. Granted it makes golf more enjoyable for the beginner which is great however if you want to keep a legitimate handicapp I believe those shouldn't be allowed. .

Not really Steve. Rescue clubs came about for one reason. To replace 3 and 4 irons. But the reality is modern 3 and 4 irons are more like 1 and 2 irons from the old days and only God and Jack Nicklaus can hit them. In the quest for longer distances and additional sales manufacturers made lofts a lot stronger which made the 3 and 4 harder to hit for 90% of the golfers out there. This is also how gap wedges came about. The old PW was 49 degrees and the sand Wedge was 55 degrees. Nowadays you'll find pitching wedges with 44 degrees of loft(an old 9 iron).Should the use of weights(i.e R7) be banned to cure a slice?

[BC MIST]

Should the use of weights(i.e R7) be banned to cure a slice?

If the use of weights ACTUALLY cured a slice, they would be banned. Anyone know yet what next year's golfing fad is going to be?

If a rangefinder is going to help my club head approach the ball from the inside, contact the ball just below the equator on the bottom groove with a 2 degree open club face, square at separation, then they should also be banned. 95% of the art of making a precise golf shot is in the hands of the painter, not the computer.

[Chieflongtee]

If a rangefinder is going to help my club head approach the ball from the inside, contact the ball just below the equator on the bottom groove with a 2 degree open club face, square at separation, then they should also be banned. .

Do you have any data regarding the above statement or it is just hear say? Was there any robot testing done and if so where can one find it?

[Chieflongtee]

Ahh, Andre. No matter what the topic, we can always rely on YOU to tells us that custom fitting will solve all our problems!

Terry. I still have a lot to learn

First of all, the chances of having 2 clubs in an iron set that hit the ball the same distance is pretty slim, since club lengths get progressively longer as well. Even if your 5-iron and 6-iron had identical lofts (which itself would be extremely rare), your 5-iron would go farther because the shaft is generally 1/2" longer.

[FONT="Courier New"]Loft accounts for 80% of distance and length 20%. Don't take it from but from me but Tom Wishon who's been designing clubs for the last 35 years[/FONT]

Secondly, the sole purpose of a rangefinder is to help me determine which club to pull out of the bag. I want to know whether I have 140, 150 or 160 yards to the pin before I make my decision and a rangefinder will tell me that. The fact that I might have 3 clubs to choose from for my 150-yard shot is really not the issue here, and if I had two clubs that went almost the same distance I would probably know that after a couple of sessions at the driving range.

Depends on the driving range and the quality of their golf balls and the distance accuracy in eaxch range. I'd rather measure the distance on a real golf course with a quality golf ball

Yes Andre, custom fitting is good. But I know from personal experience that I can totally SUCK with great equipment and play brilliantly with junk. Which REALLY makes you think about what is truly important in this game...

Maybe but I'd rather have all odds in my favour. I can drill a hole with a hand drill but I will do a much better job with a drill press.

[COLOR="darkred"]And since we're on the topic it sure did not take Edwin watts long to react.
[COLOR]
http://198.65.116.81/custom.aspx?id=...=09302005email
It will be on my Christmas, wish list

Looking forward to tomorrow

[Andru]

The truth is that some of the skill in executing a good golf shot has been taken away with so called modern,"forgiving," equipment. This includes the 100, 150 and 200 yard markers that most every course has. Even so, there is some skill in calculating how far you are to the pin, but now, that will be eliminated, too. If the rangefinder and the like trend continues, what is next, a device that calculated the anmount of break in a putt?

I actually don't have a problem with golfers using these devices in casual rounds or practice rounds, as play may be speeded up. However, in competition, absolutely NO WAY. Determining distance should be part of the skill in competition. Rangefinders may soon lower the average score as much as an eraser does.

Call me a 3/4 purist.

I played a course just north of Toronto called Watsons Glen they offer a detailed yardage book and a gps system. I opted for the 3 dollar book. If I could attain a yadage book with this much detail I'd never use a range finder.

Yes you still have to pace off yardages, but you're not guessing anymore. If Amateurs are forced to play by the same rules as the pros then I want the same equipment and course information( Yardage and pin placements ) it's only fair.

I'll use a range finder if I don't have acces to a yardage book. You should see this thing. I'd post a picture but i gave it to one of my friends as they'll probably use it more often than I will.

Cheers