USGA/R&A Announcement Allowing Rangefinders

[1dash1]

GolfWeek, July30, 2005, Newsmakers section, reports that an announcement from the ruling bodies is imminent regarding the use of artificial rangefinding devices (laser rangefinders, GPS, etc.). Highlights of the article written by James Achenbach:

• ... the devices - all called range finders - now will be classified as a "condition of competition" for events that wish to permit their use.
• The new status apparently will go into effect immediately on a worldwide basis, although the major professional tours are not expected to authorize the use of distance-measuring devices. It is unclear whether the R&A and USGA will allow the devices in any of their championships, although several sources indicated that would not happen immediately.
• The new interpretation will permit devices that gauge distance only. Those that measure wind or slope of the ground will not be allowed.
• Several sources at the recent British Open said the announcement would come after a regularly scheduled meeting of the two rules committees at the American Club in Kohler, Wis., prior to the Walker Cup Aug. 13-14 at Chicago Golf Club.

While there has been no independent confirmation of this report, the author, James Achenbach, is a respected and reputable journalist. The only thing that I question is the timing - I would have expected the announcement later in the year, say October or November, to coincide a little better with the publication of the 2006 Rules edition.

[1972Apex]

Well, I like it, although I don't currently own a rangefinder. Purists, however, will hate the the fact that rangefinders are about to be legalized.
Myself, I'll just tee up my low compression two-piece distance ball with excellent spin and whack it with my 460cc titanium behemoth. Change is inevitable. Might be time to consider picking up a laser rangefinder to fool around with...

[Kilroy]

I like it too. I got a Bushnel laser this year and I love it. It increases acuracy in club selection and adds to my enjoyment of the game. It's only the same yardage info the pros get from their caddies.

Getting a "ping" off a vertical surface can be challenging sometimes. It does not always catch the flag at 150 yards. You can usually get a mound or a person on the green easy enough though. Can be a problem if the green is elevated and the only flat surface is the hill at the front.

[BC MIST]

Well, I like it, although I don't currently own a rangefinder. Purists, however, will hate the the fact that rangefinders are about to be legalized.
Myself, I'll just tee up my low compression two-piece distance ball with excellent spin and whack it with my 460cc titanium behemoth. Change is inevitable. Might be time to consider picking up a laser rangefinder to fool around with...

The truth is that some of the skill in executing a good golf shot has been taken away with so called modern,"forgiving," equipment. This includes the 100, 150 and 200 yard markers that most every course has. Even so, there is some skill in calculating how far you are to the pin, but now, that will be eliminated, too. If the rangefinder and the like trend continues, what is next, a device that calculated the anmount of break in a putt?

I actually don't have a problem with golfers using these devices in casual rounds or practice rounds, as play may be speeded up. However, in competition, absolutely NO WAY. Determining distance should be part of the skill in competition. Rangefinders may soon lower the average score as much as an eraser does.

Call me a 3/4 purist.

[Big Johnny69]

Do caddies on tours not use a rangefinder to determine distances? I agree with BC. If you are going to be playing a competitive round at a course, play a practice round and bring your rangefinder. Find your distances, write them down so when it comes time to play your meaningful round you have them. Casual rounds go ahead and use them. Competitive play, no way.


And as for speeding up play, like Dan said, it is sometimes hard to get a read. Can you imagine both the player and caddie running around the fairway trying to find a location to get a good "ping". I could only see this dragging the already long process for the shot selection out even more.

And that's my two cents worth....

[1972Apex]

The truth is that some of the skill in executing a good golf shot has been taken away with so called modern,"forgiving," equipment. This includes the 100, 150 and 200 yard markers that most every course has. Even so, there is some skill in calculating how far you are to the pin, but now, that will be eliminated, too. If the rangefinder and the like trend continues, what is next, a device that calculated the anmount of break in a putt?

I actually don't have a problem with golfers using these devices in casual rounds or practice rounds, as play may be speeded up. However, in competition, absolutely NO WAY. Determining distance should be part of the skill in competition. Rangefinders may soon lower the average score as much as an eraser does.

Call me a 3/4 purist.

On the bright side BC, the player still has to hit the shot
And for most people, that's the real problem

[Kilroy]

Can you imagine both the player and caddie running around the fairway trying to find a location to get a good "ping".

I was refering to a few seconds, not minutes. No matter how you slice it it's only going to be faster than pacing yards off.

[Big Johnny69]

I just meant Dan that I could see the player/caddie looking first and saying he was getting nothing. Then passing it to player/caddie to see what he gets or agrees with what the finder says. Just something else that could turn into something time consuming. Or maybe not, only time will tell.

[NoBack]

No comment

[el tigre]

I actually don't have a problem with golfers using these devices in casual rounds or practice rounds, as play may be speeded up. However, in competition, absolutely NO WAY. Determining distance should be part of the skill in competition. Rangefinders may soon lower the average score as much as an eraser does.

I don't see how how determining the distance is part of the skill in competition. Executing the shot is the essence of golf.

If determining distance was truly an important skill in competition, then caddies would not be allowed in competition either. They are the ones who determine all of the distances on the course, map out the greens, etc - not the players. And many courses already provide most of the information in any case, with detailed course books, course maps at every hole, yardage markers every 50 yards, yardages on sprinkler heads, etc.

If you were a real purist who felt determining distances was so critical, why not go all the way and abolish scorecards and course maps with yardages marked on them, and get rid of ALL the yardage markers on the course? The answer is obvious. Everyone would spend twice as long on the golf course pacing off yardages to get the same information they now have anyway.

[NoBack]

If you were a real purist who felt determining distances was so critical, why not go all the way and abolish scorecards and course maps with yardages marked on them, and get rid of ALL the yardage markers on the course?.

el tigre, why dont you just play with rocks again. Maybe replace the lawn mower with sheep?? That was just dumb.

I agree 100% with BC. And so do alot more.

We are talking specifically about rangefinders NOT BEING used during competition. Nothing more.

[1972Apex]

Well, I agree with El Tigre Steve, and I think you could be more polite in your response to him...

[NoBack]

The idea of taking away something like yardage markers and scoredcards is obviously not the same as laser rangefinders during competition. This is what I said was dumb. And I was as polite I could without laughing too much after I read his post.

You know my view on this already, as it has been debated before. If they allow them, good for those who can afford the $300 advantage in competition. And please dont try and convince me it is not an advantage, because it is.

[el tigre]

The idea of taking away something like yardage markers and scoredcards is obviously not the same as laser rangefinders during competition. This is what I said was dumb. And I was as polite I could without laughing too much after I read his post.

Please Steve, tell this poor, dumb golfer what the difference is?

The argument put forth against rangefinders earlier in this thread is that determining the distance is part of the skill that is required to play the game. Well, if that was the case then why are we allowed ANY help at all? Why are we allowed to determine distances on the golf course during a competition using yardage markers, caddies, course notes, books, maps, scorecards, etc. - but not a rangefinder? What is it about the use of a rangefinder to determine the distance instead looking it up in your yardage book that should make it illegal under the rules?

I can understand having a personal preference for or against them. But there is no credible reason why the rules should allow "paper-based" tools and disallow "technology-based" tools that do EXACTLY the same thing.

[1972Apex]

And please dont try and convince me it is not an advantage, because it is.

Funny, the fact that you and your buddies who play Golf-o-Max everyday in the winter and thereby have a huge advantage over those of us who don't but have to play with our summer handicaps never seemed to bother you. And that is a much huger advantage that a rangefinder would be for someone.
I guess it depends on who has the advantage doesn't it?

[1dash1]

El tigre:

There are "credible" reasons on both sides of the argument.

As to whether the arguments are "compelling", I guess I'll let history be the judge of that. Hindsight is 20-20.

[Shivas Irons]

Funny, the fact that you and your buddies who play Golf-o-Max everyday in the winter and thereby have a huge advantage over those of us who don't but have to play with our summer handicaps never seemed to bother you. And that is a much huger advantage that a rangefinder would be for someone.

Not.

At Golf-O-Max you're always playing on a flat lie, you can never hit a fat shot, the ball never plugs or goes under the lip of the bunkler & putting is nothing like it is outside. When we play outside it's not often your buddies tell you to pick up a 12 foot putt.
Playing at Golf-O-Max is actually detrimental to your "outside" game.

However, I'm not sure what Golf-O-Max has to do with range finders & the USGA ruling.

[1972Apex]

However, I'm not sure what Golf-O-Max has to do with range finders & the USGA ruling.

The point is that some people who play in the Cleaners games at Golf-o-Max are regulars there. They regularly shoot 65 or lower but are more than happy to play straight up against those of use who can't break 75 into the screen.
Trust me it's a far easier way to win money than it would be to bring a rangefinder to an OG Tour event...

[NoBack]

wow lots to answer here.

terry ........... there is difference walking the course with a rangefinder and laying out YOUR own book of markings before an event or a competition, and I have no problem with that. But come game day forget it.

terry and/or reid .......... If you and I show up at an unkonwn course with no books and only the 100/150/200 markers and if we have the same handicaps, are you saying you wouldnt have ANY advantage if ONLY YOU used a rangefinder?

reid ............. then I guess I have an advantage at GOlf-O-Max. Thanks for the $$$$ BTW we dont twist anybodys arm to play. And most already do play indoors at one place or another.

[el tigre]

An excerpt from the Auberbach article (I have bolded some of the interesting points):

Rangefinders are all about faster play. This is one of the reasons the USGA and R&A have decided to change the rules. Like golf cars, distance measuring devices will be considered a "condition of play" and can be declared acceptable by any tournament (but don't expect the PGA Tour to allow their use).

Another reason the rule is being altered: Golf has changed, and yardages are widely available from a variety of sources, including 150-yard markers, sprinkler heads, yardage books and caddies. The revised rule is a recognition by the USGA and R&A that no competitor is gaining an advantage by knowing yardages.

Believe it or not, most golfers before the 1960s had no idea exactly how far they hit all their irons. Deane Beman, who later became commissioner of the PGA Tour, was a pioneer in charting distances for all the clubs in his bag.

Beman outlined the system for Jack Nicklaus, and suddenly the most explosive golfer in the world added a new element of precision to his game.

Today most players know how far they hit all their clubs, increasing the importance of distance measuring. Some golf clubs in Great Britain cling to the tradition of providing no yardage markers whatsoever, although this too is disappearing.

The modern world of golf is one of exact yardages and precise shotmaking.

[1972Apex]

reid ............. then I guess I have an advantage at GOlf-O-Max. Thanks for the $$$$ BTW we dont twist anybodys arm to play. And most already do play indoors at one place or another.

Well, thanks for answering that question. I guess it really does only matter to you if the advantage is against you...
No you don't twist anyone's arm to play, but you still have an advantage. BTW, I didn't twist anyone at the USGA's arm to legalize rangefinders either...
As for whether I would have an advantage if I showed up for a match against you with a rangefinder and you didn't, the answer is no. You and I have almost the same handicap. As long as I acheived my handicap while using the rangefinder, bringing one to a tournament would give me no advantage at all. That my friend is a fact.

[NoBack]

Like I said in another thread , when it's official for OVGA then so be it.

[NoBack]

I guess it really does only matter to you if the advantage is against you....

Has nothing to do with me reid. Other guys who's handicap is higher than mine beat my scores on a regular basis, because of they play the "game" at GOM rather than their outside game. So no it has nothing to do with me. That my friend is also a fact.

[1972Apex]

This is obviously a pointless discussion...

[el tigre]

terry and/or reid .......... If you and I show up at an unkonwn course with no books and only the 100/150/200 markers and if we have the same handicaps, are you saying you wouldnt have ANY advantage if ONLY YOU used a rangefinder?

The issue is not whether rangefinders are advantageous. There are all kinds of advantages and disadvantages that are perfectly okay under the rules. After all, if we have the same handicaps with no books and only the yardage markers but we are playing at your home course where you play 100 rounds a year then you clearly have an advantage - but you are doing nothing wrong under the rules. There is nothing unfair about it, since presumably I could choose to play a 100 rounds a year at the same course if I felt it was important enough.

The real issue is whether or not rangefinders are unfair. If the rules specified that I could use a rangefinder and you couldn't - that would be unfair. But if we are both allowed to use them and I choose to bring one and you don't, too bad for you. Geez, if you forgot to bring any tees with you, I still get to use mine even though it would clearly give me an advantage on the tee box. If you leave your putter at home I don't have to take mine out of the bag to even things up. If you think it is a big deal, then bring your own.

[Kilroy]

Funny thing Steve is that whenever I let you know a yardage from my rangefinder you immediately dispute it and say that you don't believe it and that your guestimate is better & more accurate. If the rangefinder is so seriously flawed and woefully inacurate how is that an advantage to the user to be getting all these incorrect yardages from the contraption?

[1972Apex]

Well Dan, it's clearly a personal issue with Steve...
He talks about it in the third person as if it is others on the tour who would be hurt by rangefinders due to an unfair advantage but really it's his problem with rangefinders that is the issue.
You could offer to hand one out free to every group at every event on the OG Tour to even things up and he'd still be against them...

[Kilroy]

It's OK. I can live without using them in OGT events and they are already permitted for handicapping. I certainly don't depend on it. I have only had it this season. I DO like it and with this rules change I am sure they will sell like hotcakes. Once most players have them and want them allowed in events it will be permitted.

The fact that Steve and I are in opposite camps is actually a good thing for the tour. This way, neither camp will be ignored when the annual review of policy comes up. The players will get what the majority want that way, not to be overuled by a management that sees only one side.

Besides I do think this is an interesting debate.

[1972Apex]

I think it's an interesting debate too. In any case, now that they are legalized a lot more will sell and the prices will drop significantly. I'm guessing they'll be under 100 bones in a year or so, which will end the debate over whether people can afford it. Now if they can just get the new drivers down to that price...

[Kilroy]

I got mine for $200 last winter. It was a sale but I have seen them for the same price a few months ago. I have not looked recently. There are several models to choose from. The pocket telescope jobs where you need to see the full height of the flag work pretty well and are only $40 for a good quality model.