Need a ruling

Does anyone know the ruling for:

Par 3
Ball hit just left of green headed between edge of green and a bunker.
Lands beside the bunker and bounces viloently straight up and we lose sight as heads behind the hole.
1st thought- sprinkler head cover.
Get to the green - we all agreed the only thing that it could of hit was a rake.
Meanwhile coming the other way Buddy hits a ball very close by . I try to get a look but he rushes it. 1 min later I find another ball close by which is not mine.
The hole was for 3 skins but because of pace of play purposes(toe tappers on the tbox) I picked. 1 partner won the hole w/par.
What is the ruling for the fn rake?

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Originally Posted by clankoffdatee

What is the ruling for the rake?

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The rake is an obstruction.

An obstruction is anything artificial (garbage cans, club houses, signs, sprinkler heads, etc) except objects defining out of bounds.

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Originally Posted by clankoffdatee

Does anyone know the ruling for:

Par 3
Ball hit just left of green headed between edge of green and a bunker.
Lands beside the bunker and bounces viloently straight up and we lose sight as heads behind the hole.
1st thought- sprinkler head cover.
Get to the green - we all agreed the only thing that it could of hit was a rake.
Meanwhile coming the other way Buddy hits a ball very close by . I try to get a look but he rushes it. 1 min later I find another ball close by which is not mine.
The hole was for 3 skins but because of pace of play purposes(toe tappers on the tbox) I picked. 1 partner won the hole w/par.
What is the ruling for the fn rake?

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Just play the ball from where it finished.

Rub of the green, unlucky!!!!

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Originally Posted by Thunder

Rub of the green, unlucky!!!!

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No.

A “rub of the green’’ occurs when a ball in motion is accidentally deflected or stopped by any outside agency.

His ball hit an obstruction.

If you hit a rake and the ball becomes lost, tough s...!! It is plain and simple unlucky rub of the green you loose the hole. Hopefully you won some skins the rest of the way in.

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Originally Posted by Thunder

If you hit a rake and the ball becomes lost, tough s...!! It is plain and simple unlucky rub of the green you loose the hole. Hopefully you won some skins the rest of the way in.

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It is NOT a rub of the green.

Holy cow!!!! Rub of the green is plain and simple bad luck. It hits something or deflects off something then you have to play it as it lies. I thought you were supposed to be a rules guy. HA HA

Thunder, Gary is an RCGA rules official. Your last comment is quite disrespectful

As he stated a rake is an obstruction, not an outside agency.

From the RCGA
http://www.rcga.org/english/Rules/rules_definitions.asp

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Rub of the Green
A “rub of the green’’ occurs when a ball in motion is accidentally deflected or stopped by any outside agency (see Rule 19-1).

Outside Agency
An “outside agency’’ is any agency not part of the match or, in stroke play, not part of the competitor’s side, and includes a referee, a marker, an observer and a forecaddie. Neither wind nor water is an outside agency.

Obstructions
An “obstruction’’ is anything artificial, including the artificial surfaces and sides of roads and paths and manufactured ice, except:
a. Objects defining out of bounds, such as walls, fences, stakes and railings;
b. Any part of an immovable artificial object that is out of bounds; and
c. Any construction declared by the Committee to be an integral part of the course.
An obstruction is a movable obstruction if it may be moved without unreasonable effort, without unduly delaying play and without causing damage. Otherwise it is an immovable obstruction.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thunder

Rub of the green is plain and simple bad luck.

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By the way, if your ball was headed for the pond but bounces off an observer's head onto the green, that would be rub of the green too. Unlucky for the observer, but good luck for you.

True, rub of the green is also considered ending up in a divot in the middle of the fairway. Rub of the green is a wide term for bad luck or good luck as you pointed out.

Well, for some reason you don't want to accept that "rub of the green" is striking an outside agency. It is not a term interchangable with "luck" :rolleyes

Oh well. There is no point in arguing. Just trying to clear up confusion about the use of the term. :confused

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Originally Posted by Thunder

True, rub of the green is also considered ending up in a divot in the middle of the fairway. Rub of the green is a wide term for bad luck or good luck as you pointed out.

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Rub of the Green is specifically defined in the Definitions Section of the Rules of Golf. It does not include general bad luck.

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Originally Posted by Gary Hill

The rake is an obstruction.

An obstruction is anything artificial (garbage cans, club houses, signs, sprinkler heads, etc) except objects defining out of bounds.

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Just read this thread through, and I"m confused by the whole thing.... My understanding is that the ball hit a rake, and you have to play it as it lies, rub of the green, obstruction, whatever. Many times I have hit to a greenside trap, had the ball almost come out only to be stopped and roll back in due to an unfortunately placed rake.

What does it matter how the rake is classified?

Also, once the other chap plays your ball (a grievous offence), you're basically hosed (because you can't actually prove, really really, that it was your ball, so your ball is lost).... right?

Fellas,fellas...
So what's the ruling?
We were playing stroke play and skins.
Pretty sure player going the other way hit my ball but can"t prove it.
What should have I done? Dropped? From where?Hit another?

PS: Lost the hole for 5 carry overs.Ended up winning 11 to 6 to 1.

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Originally Posted by clankoffdatee

Fellas,fellas...
So what's the ruling?
We were playing stroke play and skins.
Pretty sure player going the other way hit my ball but can"t prove it.
What should have I done? Dropped? From where?Hit another?

PS: Lost the hole for 5 carry overs.Ended up winning 11 to 6 to 1.

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You have to take a penalty of 1 stroke and go back and play again from the spot you hit the original. If you know the exact spot, place the ball. If you aren't exactly sure, drop where you think it was. If you played from the tee, you may tee it up again if you wish.

If the other player who hit your ball is in your group, retrieve it and put it back. He then gets a 2 stroke penalty. If you can't identify it (as it sounds) then AAA is correct, your ball is lost.

Always mark your ball with a sharpie to make it identifiable.

If someone hit your ball while playing another hole (you need reasonable evidence) then that is interference by an outside agency, so you replace the ball as close as possible to where it was and play on, no penalty.

MY understanding is , you must determine that the other player "in other group" actually played your ball , by asking him ....and if the ball is not immediately recoverable i.e. lost , or hit 200mtrs away i guess , you can substitute another ball , but the other bloke must show you where he played from , and i think you drop rather than place at that point

If you know just where the ball was then you place. If you don't you drop at your best estimate.

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Originally Posted by AAA

If you know just where the ball was then you place. If you don't you drop at your best estimate.

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Interesting. I did not know that. I thought you had to drop either way. Thanks! :thumbsup

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Originally Posted by Dan Kilbank

Interesting. I did not know that. I thought you had to drop either way. Thanks! :thumbsup

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See Rule 20-3 a, b & c about placing and replacing