New Courses & Course Expansions for Ottawa

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07-04-2001 06:42 PM
Kilroy

New Courses & Course Expansions for Ottawa

Stonebridge
All 18 holes at Stonebridge are now open!
Stonebridge is destined to become one of the finest 18-hole championship public courses in the National Capital Region. Designed by noted architect Ted Baker, a Canadian designer who is best known for Lionhead Golf Club in Toronto.
Spaciously laid out over 180 acres, Stonebridge offers a wonderful blending of parkland and linksland golf. Special care was taken to preserve the natural features of this spectacular site. Nestled within a lush rolling landscape of verdant parkland and the picturesque Jock River, the course is a compliment to its natural surroundings, making Stonebridge eligible for “Audubon Cooperative Sanctuary System of Canada” status.

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The Marshes
Probably the most ambitious of all the new golf course projects in the area. Located right in the heart of Silicon Valley North, in the Kanata Research Park, on Terry Fox Dr, at Hertzberg. Scheduled for opening in Spring of 2002. This public course is going to be "A++"
Robert Trent Jones Design & Bruce Charleton Lead Architect. Mr Charleton was profiled in Golf Digest Nov 2000 issue as one of the top 5 golf course architects. This course will be a state of the facility with one of the most advanced irrigation system in North America. An advanced GPS system will be in every cart. There will be a full featured practice and learning centre, which will be available to players for their use, at no additional cost. Green fees will be $110 (including cart).

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Timber Run
Grand Opening August 25th, 2001 in Lanark. We do not have much info on this one yet, but it it is coming soon.

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Emerald Links
Expanding to 27 holes for 2002. The property south of the existing 18 will be developed into an additional 9 holes designed by Graham Cooke, the same designer who did the first 18 holes. The land acquired will also include residential properties all around the golf course.

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Manderley
Expanding to 27 holes for 2003. 40 acres of land have been acquired by the Manderley north of the existing property. Construction of the new nine begins this season. The land is similar in terrain to the existing course, which will make for a very consistent 27 holes.

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Cedarhill
Opening it's fairways to the public. No longer strictly private, you can now play this beautifully groomed course, and enjoy the convenience of a location that is virtually in the heart of Nepean. Located on Cedarview Rd. just north of Barrhaven.
07-04-2001 07:16 PM
Gary Hill

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan Kilbank
The Marshes

An advanced GPS system will be in every cart.

I am disappointed by the proliferation of these highly illegal devices being install on golf carts at purportedly reputable golf courses.
07-04-2001 07:30 PM
Kilroy

Didn't the USGA make a revision this year to allow posting of handicaps for rounds played with these in use? Does that not validate thier use?

I know, the USGA is not the RCGA, but... can you say ERC driver? The RCGA usually follows the R&A more closely, but not in the case of non-conforming clubs. I take it that the RCGA has not yet allowed these devices for handicapping? How about the R&A?
07-04-2001 07:51 PM
Gary Hill

The U.S.G.A. Handicap Committee is completely separate from the U.S.G.A. Rules Committee. (This also applies to the R.C.G.A. and the R&A).

The Handicap Committee could think of no fair soultion to golfers playing where these carts were used or possibly mandatory, so rounds played with these carts may be entered for handicap purposes. The Handicap Committee also allows for rounds to be entered where short putts are conceded, but not where illegal clubs (such as the ERC II) are used.

These determinations of valid rounds for handicap purposes by the Handicap Committee of the governing body involved in no way validates or authorizes breaching the Rules of Golf.
07-04-2001 08:14 PM
Kilroy

Quote:

Originally posted by Gary Hill
These determinations of valid rounds for handicap purposes by the Handicap Committee of the governing body involved in no way validates or authorizes breaching the Rules of Golf.

OK now you lost me. Isn't that like an oxymoron? (like jumbo shrimp or military intelegence?)

How can it be valid for handicapping but violate the rules at the same time? One would assume that it would not be allowed in competition. Surely in some small way the USGA is now differentiating between casual and competitive play. I must be missing something key here, because in the debate on non-conforming clubs the USGA stood firm in it's commitment to not allowing such a distinction to exist at all.

You did not mention what the RCGA's official position is regarding posting such rounds. Is that a USGA only provision?
07-04-2001 10:18 PM
Gary Hill

I am not sure I can make it any more clear. You are comparing apples and oranges.

The Rules of Golf cannot be individually,side by side equated to the guidelines for returning a valid "handicap score".

The purpose of a handicap is to "generally" come to a consensus (compromise) as to the numerical "average" scoring POTENTIAL a player.

For example:

Is a stipulated round of golf 15 holes. Absolutely not. (Rules)
Is a rain shorted 15 hole round valid (and required) for addition to your handicap records. Absolutely. (Handicaps)

The handicap formula assumes that ALL rounds are entered. If a player were having a particularly bad day, he could quit after 15 holes and pretend he didn't have the bad day.

As another example, a player would not be allowed to enter a handicap score of 25 for a particular hole. He would have to lower the score for handicap purposes. (Equitable Stroke Control)

Does this mean that it is legal to record a score lower than actually taken? Of course not.

The handicap guidelines are designed to prohibit these and other types of manipulation of a player's AVERAGE score. They are not to be confused with the actual Rules of Play.

Note: All of the above statements regarding the Rules of Play and Handicap Guidelines should be considered the official R.C.G.A. position.
07-05-2001 06:12 AM
Kilroy

Well, that does make some sense. What does not make sense is that they are allowing these to be put in carts in the first place.

However, personally, I do not see a lot of difference between that and a detailed yardage book. I know there is a difference since one is an electronic aid and the other is paper map. I do not have the time to pace off every course and check pin placements before I play. I know, I know, I COULD and it would be legal, but it is not going to happen.
07-05-2001 11:42 AM
spidey

....wha'????

Quote:

stated by Gary...
Is a rain shorted 15 hole round valid (and required) for addition to your handicap records. Absolutely. (Handicaps)

....but, but, but.... So, if my score (dreaming of course) is 52 after 15 holes, I must post 52 for handicap purposes????? Does the RCGA's handicap program allow you to enter zero for any holes??

Does this include my Match play scores, where some holes may not be calculable, say we agreed to halve two holes where we never even reached the green.....??

Quote:

stated by Gary...
I am disappointed by the proliferation of these highly illegal devices being install on golf carts at purportedly reputable golf courses.

....but, of course... nobody has addressed the issue that this device is installed (at least partially) with the motive of speeding up play, so that patrons don't spend 5 or 10 minutes trying to determine the club they want to play.

Personally, I think its a great idea for a practice round. Say like when I want to try a few new shots out... hitting extra balls, how far can I really hit that 8 iron??, can I hit 3 shots in a row 235yds in the middle of the fairway, etc.

In fact, one thing I think is really great is on the 12th hole at Manderley where they have bricks in the fairway to measure the length of your drive. Every club in the area has a favourite hole to nominate for the longest drive prize for company tournaments. Wouldn't it be a great idea to have this (to some extent) on them all?? Personally, I think it will remove all the arguments on the spur of the moment about how many hundreds of yards that was (Did you see that??? it must've been 385 yards!!!!!). ....Cinderella story, my ass!!

....but, finally, I agree that it constitutes illegal equipment. If I were to be intending on entering a score from this place, I'd have to consider how not to use it.

spidey
07-05-2001 12:29 PM
Gary Hill

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan Kilbank
What does not make sense is that they are allowing these to be put in carts in the first place.

Who do you mean by "they"?

If you mean the R.C.G.A., they have no control over what illegal equipment golf course owners supply to players (e.g, compasses, range-finders, and GPS carts).

If you mean the golf courses themselves, they have proven by your original post that it is a great marketing tool to draw attention and customers to their golf course even though these carts are illegal. Can you say ERC II marketing?

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan Kilbank
However, personally, I do not see a lot of difference between that and a detailed yardage book. I know there is a difference since one is an electronic aid and the other is paper map. I do not have the time to pace off every course and check pin placements before I play. I know, I know, I COULD and it would be legal, but it is not going to happen.

There is a world of difference between not choosing to gather all the available information and having someone or something provide it to you.

A yardage book, no matter how detailed, only contains information about distances from one permanent object to another permanent object (e.g, from a tee board to a fairway bunker, from a sprinkler head to a putting green, etc.). That distance will be the same tomorrow, the next day, and the day after. It is impossible for a yardage book to tell you exactly where your ball is right NOW.

The premise of the game is that you are alone (or with a caddie) trying to get around the course on your wits alone with no compass, computer, telescope attached to your putter (like Rodney Dangerfield in Caddy Shack), or any other artificial device or unusual equipment to aid you. You are further prevented in the Advice Rule from asking for or receiving any information which could influence you in determining your play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke. You are not allowed to ask: what club should I use, how strong is the wind blowing, should I hit it high or low, can I carry the hazard, or how far is my ball from the hole. A GPS equipped cart illegally answers the latter.

Despite questionable court rulings, ERC II drivers and GPS carts, it is ultimately up to each player, by his adherence to the Rules, to determine whether golf will remain the great game we know or degrade into something unrecognizable with players riding golf carts with revolving radar domes, clubs with telescopic sites, and golf balls with homing devices.
07-05-2001 01:31 PM
Gary Hill

Quote:

Originally posted by spidey
....but, but, but.... So, if my score (dreaming of course) is 52 after 15 holes, I must post 52 for handicap purposes????? Does the RCGA's handicap program allow you to enter zero for any holes??

No. You would calculate your scores for the discontinued holes on the basis of your handicap factor. For instance, if you are a "bogey" golfer, you would enter "bogeys" for the unplayed holes in all forms of play.

FYI - You are correct that you and your opponent may agreed to halve a hole partially completed, but be careful, you may not agree to halve a hole in advance (where neither player has played a stoke).

Quote:

Originally posted by spidey
....but, of course... nobody has addressed the issue that this device is installed (at least partially) with the motive of speeding up play, so that patrons don't spend 5 or 10 minutes trying to determine the club they want to play.

It is already illegal under the Rules to spend 5 or 10 minutes determining what club you wish to use. Does this justify introducing another illegal activity? In my experience, finding the exact yardage is not the principal factor in slow play.

I do not believe that pace of play is the motivating factor. This is from their own advertising:

Uplink's on-screen advertising capability, which allows promotion of golf lessons, pro shop and clubhouse specials, or upcoming course events, creates increased food and beverage sales, as well as increased sales in the pro shop. Combined with advertising from outside sources, course managers can generate significant profits as a result of using the UpLink System.

Quote:

Originally posted by spidey Personally, I think its a great idea for a practice round. Say like when I want to try a few new shots out... hitting extra balls, how far can I really hit that 8 iron??, can I hit 3 shots in a row 235yds in the middle of the fairway, etc.

Hitting extra balls??? 3 shots in a row 235 yds in the middle of the fairway???

How could GPS carts possibly speed up play under these inappropriate circumstances?
07-05-2001 01:50 PM
spidey

....no!

ha ha....

No, I've never used the opportunity to play a practice round when there are other groups around. When I (and anybody else I see) hit extra balls, it's when the course is empty, or at least when I'm not interrupting play. No, I intended the GPS to give me info on my yardage, not speed up my play. (If I played any faster, they wouldn't believe I played all the holes ;))

It may be illegal under the rules to take 5 minutes to choose a club, but I see it all the time, especially with high rollers at expensive golf courses. Some of them take longer to light their cigars and buy their beers than I take to play the entire hole.

:p spidey