Hot Melt Experiment -- How Much Heat?

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03-13-2004 03:22 PM
PowerFade

Hot Melt Experiment -- How Much Heat?

I'm experimenting with an old driver head by adding 4g of hot melt glue stick pieces through the hosel. I've heated it up twice with my heat gun and I still get a bit of a rattle. I don't want to overheat the head and ruin the finish. How much heat will totally melt the glue? How long should I heat it? Anyone have experience with this?? Thanks in advance.

Through many online searches and calls to craft stores, I belive the hot melt glue melts at 350*F (and will be stable up to 142*F) and the low temp glue melts at 250*F (and will be stable up to 120*F). Which means don't mess with too much heating when the head is shafted! Thanks to all for your comments.
03-14-2004 11:46 AM
Chieflongtee

Couple questions. Where did you read/learn about this procedure? Also where is the rattle located? In the rattle in the shaft or the head? Why hot melt glue sticks instead of epoxy?
03-14-2004 11:48 AM
Chieflongtee

http://www.golfsmith.com/ppage.php?stynum=8294
03-15-2004 12:33 AM
PowerFade

I've read about it in various other forums and have spoken to a couple class A clubmakers. There are several methods of weighting heads (I am not trying to fix a rattle--the rattle is from the glue stick pieces not being totally melted): epoxy alone, epoxy mixed with tungsten or lead powder, and hot melt. I have chosen the hot melt method because it is much easier to fix it if it becomes dislodged and starts rattling. All you have to do is heat it back up again. Right now the shaft is off and I went into the head through the hosel. There was already a hole there. After I will pug it with a plastic plug and reshaft it.

The idea is to increase the headweight, swingweight and feel of the clubhead because I like my drivers around 44" but also up to D4 if possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andre Cantin

Couple questions. Where did you read/learn about this procedure? Also where is the rattle located? In the rattle in the shaft or the head? Why hot melt glue sticks instead of epoxy?
03-15-2004 07:22 AM
Chieflongtee

rattle

I was under the impression that you wanted to fix a rattle. Sorry about the confusion. :wave
03-15-2004 08:19 AM
PowerFade

No sweat!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andre Cantin

I was under the impression that you wanted to fix a rattle. Sorry about the confusion. :wave
03-15-2004 11:09 AM
Farzin

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerFade

I'm experimenting with an old driver head by adding 4g of hot melt glue stick pieces through the hosel. I've heated it up twice with my heat gun and I still get a bit of a rattle. I don't want to overheat the head and ruin the finish. How much heat will totally melt the glue? How long should I heat it? Anyone have experience with this?? Thanks in advance.

I am not a club maker but there is a simple sulotion to add swing wight to your driver withouth actualy adding wieight to it.
This is how I did it:
My driver had a swing wieght of D2, But I wanted a D4 swing weight.
I read it somewhere that for every 4 grams of grip wieght, the swing wieight will change by One point. So I decided to get a lighter grip in wieght "grams" and replace it with the original one which was heavier.
by just doing that my drivers swing wieght increased by 2 points from a D2 to a D4.
No lead weight and no no glue was added..

The lighter the grip the heavier the swing wieght becomes.
I hope this will help you.
03-15-2004 11:17 AM
mberube

Steam the head as if you would steam vegetables. I am pretty sure that the glue will melt. :noddin
03-15-2004 09:59 PM
PowerFade

Thanks for the tip, Hanifi, but I've been there and done that. I have 39g Tour Velvet Lite grips on my TCP irons. The problem with doing this is it raises the number on the swingweight scale but does not make the head feel any heavier in your hands. It's almost a false measurement because you are changing the weight under your hands. The feel changes significantly when you add weight away from your hands, on the other end (head), but not so much on the near end. You might remember the gripless shafts that were introduced by AJ Tech in the mid-90s; the swingweight was way up there with those, but the feel was similar (not exactly the same) to gripped shafts of the same overall weight. That's my take on it anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanifi

I am not a club maker but there is a simple sulotion to add swing wight to your driver withouth actualy adding wieight to it.
This is how I did it:
My driver had a swing wieght of D2, But I wanted a D4 swing weight.
I read it somewhere that for every 4 grams of grip wieght, the swing wieight will change by One point. So I decided to get a lighter grip in wieght "grams" and replace it with the original one which was heavier.
by just doing that my drivers swing wieght increased by 2 points from a D2 to a D4.
No lead weight and no no glue was added..

The lighter the grip the heavier the swing wieght becomes.
I hope this will help you.
03-15-2004 10:00 PM
PowerFade

Now that's one I haven't heard before. Have you tried it? Do you plug the hosel so moisture dosn't get in the head? How long do you steam it? No affect on the paint? Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mberube

Steam the head as if you would steam vegetables. I am pretty sure that the glue will melt. :noddin
03-16-2004 09:01 PM
Chieflongtee

Heat Gun

PowerFade. What mberube is refering to is the old boiling back trick. But really all you need is a heat gun. It takes approximately 4 minutes to break the epoxy bond when pulling out shafts.Move the heat gun around and your melting problem will be a thing of the past. Since we are on the topic check out this guy's(Rick Isaac) rotisserie grill.Some people are pretty ingenious.

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/...258&uid=450180
03-16-2004 09:20 PM
PowerFade

This is great! I didn't know Rick had other homemade clubmaking tools. I have already made the clubhoroto and corresponded with Rick about the details. It is brilliant.

As to your suggestion, I've used the heatgun twice for 8 full minutes, and while it is mostly melted, it's not totally right. What it need it to totally liquify the hot melt glue (that's my melting problem), then position the head so the glue dries where I want the mass to be located.

I'm not sure, but I think I might not be speaking clearly. My question has nothing to do with epoxy and everything to do with pieces of glue-gun glue that I've inserted into the head of an old driver to increase the headweight and eventually to bring down my ballflight a bit (weight positioned high in the back of the head).

Oh, and I'm not clear on what you mean by "the old boiling back trick." Do you mean boiling the head to break the epoxy bond to take the shaft out?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andre Cantin

PowerFade. What mberube is refering to is the old boiling back trick. But really all you need is a heat gun. It takes approximately 4 minutes to break the epoxy bond when pulling out shafts.Move the heat gun around and your melting problem will be a thing of the past. Since we are on the topic check out this guy's(Rick Isaac) rotisserie grill.Some people are pretty ingenious.

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/...258&uid=450180
03-16-2004 09:46 PM
Chieflongtee

boiling back trick

The boiling bag trick consists of wrapping the head in a plastic bag and let it sit in boiling water to break the epoxy bond. There's also the sand in the deep fryer method posted on the dynacraft web site but I have read that some people have ruined heads that way. You have also mentioned adding weight positioned high in the back of the head). I believe the xtra weight should be positioned high in front on the head to bring down ball flight. :wave
03-16-2004 09:51 PM
Chieflongtee

ball trajectory

http://www.swingweight.com/using_lead_tape.htm
03-16-2004 09:54 PM
PowerFade

Andre, I was wondering if you were going to pick that up. :-) You are right, but I don't want to bring it down that much. Still looking for a good bit of forward punch (so back) and it would be very difficult for me to get the weight high in front with hot melt without touching the face. I don't want to take that chance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andre Cantin

I believe the xtra weight should be positioned high in front on the head to bring down ball flight. :wave
03-16-2004 09:55 PM
PowerFade

Been there. Thanks. (See my previous note.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andre Cantin

http://www.swingweight.com/using_lead_tape.htm
03-17-2004 09:19 AM
mberube

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerFade

Now that's one I haven't heard before. Have you tried it? Do you plug the hosel so moisture dosn't get in the head? How long do you steam it? No affect on the paint? Thanks.

I have never tried it but that’s what I would do to melt the glue. I would plug the hosel to prevent the moisture accumulating inside. Steam is hotter the water and I don't think the paint will be effected cause I think it is roasted on at the manufacture.
03-18-2004 09:37 PM
PowerFade

I'll have to try that out. Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mberube

I have never tried it but that’s what I would do to melt the glue. I would plug the hosel to prevent the moisture accumulating inside. Steam is hotter the water and I don't think the paint will be effected cause I think it is roasted on at the manufacture.
03-19-2004 11:36 AM
Marmotte

Melting temperature ?

It is impossible to have a proper procedure if we do not know the melting point of the glue. Epoxies have a wide range of melting points. Some are arount 100 de. C and other can be as high as 240 deg C.
My suggestion would be to test the melting point with boiling water. If it fails, you may have to resort to hot sand bath or even heat gun.
The problem is that most paints used on driver heads have a relatively low tolerance to heat. Once you are going beyond boiling water, the paint will start to be affected.

Does the rattle really affet your drive ?
03-19-2004 12:47 PM
PowerFade

That's exactly what my first post was asking. At what temperature does standard "hot melt" glue melt? I guess I could test it by boiling some in a pot of water with a candy thermometer, but I'm not sure if that would be accurate, or if it would ruin my pot and/or thermometer. I figured someone here might know, or maybe some has a crafty wife who uses the stuff all the time and would be able to give an approx. temperature (hot glue-gun crafts). My heat gun has melted most of it, but I would like to know an exact temp. so I can be more precise to protect the finish.

The rattle must go, and for me to position the weight accurately the glue must be completely melted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3295

It is impossible to have a proper procedure if we do not know the melting point of the glue. Epoxies have a wide range of melting points. Some are arount 100 de. C and other can be as high as 240 deg C. ... Does the rattle really affet your drive ?
03-19-2004 03:41 PM
PowerFade

I Think I Found The Answer. See My Edited First Post.
03-19-2004 04:24 PM
Kilroy

:yipee Way to go fellas!

Nice to see the forum helping solve mysteries like this!
03-19-2004 04:39 PM
PowerFade

Final update if anyone is interested: I used my headgun on low, 2" from the sole, repositioned many times over the course of 35 minutes. I propped the heat gun so it pointed upward and put the head in a "C" clamp with the handle in the PVC holder part of my clubhoroto (worked great for adjusting the position of the head for heating and cooling). Seems to have worked just fine. I'll shaft it later tonight and give it a try asap (Mon?). If anyone wants any other details, send me a PM or post here.