I realize this but no one with the qualified handicap was denied a spot by one of these "cheaters" or "reverse sandbaggars". The venom seems to be the belief that qualifed entrants were denied a spot because someone exagerated their handicap.Quote:
Originally Posted by jvincent
This is obviously not true.
Now that's a great idea! give more people a shot to earn their way into the big tourney. That's how the Toronto Star Amateur works.Quote:
Originally Posted by mberube
This year's cut looks to be 160 on the nose. 73 players at that number or lower as of about 7pm.
Garth, are you in?
Yup. Made it by 4 at 156, 77-79, tied for 43rd.
Greens at Kanata were super-fast, apparently they double-cut and rolled yesterday morning. Got my work cut out for me in 2 weeks.
GarthM
Scores not posted yet?
Scores are not up yet as of 8:15am this morning...
Good job Garth, I know what you mean about fast greens. They've been prepping the course for the last week or two and the greens have been uber-fast the last few weeks.
And the point you are missing is the individuals who provided a bogus handicap to gain entry couldn't possibly have known that the tournament was not going to be full.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andru
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthM
Well done Garth, good luck in round 3:thumbsup
Where is is being played?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoBack
Thanks. Next round is at Loch March. That will be a tough round for sure. I will probably need to shoot around 75-77 to make the next cut.
G.
Please read and make your own conclusion. you may find the beginning irrelevant but I am trying to make a sense of everything with my poor writing.
I am going to go straight to the point, I would like you to read between the lines on these posts by
NoBack or previously Known as Steve Karam on this board:
And to think it was Farzin's BEST ever round. Not bad for a 10.8 index.
Way to go Farzin.
Oh yeah, nice going Garth !!
__________________
I've spent most of my life golfing .... the rest I've just wasted".
and this was posted By mberube
ELIGIBILITY: Participation is open to amateur golfers (no age restriction) in the Ottawa Citizen circulation are a with an official/authorized index
factor of 8 (men) or less. There will be no maximum index factor for women. Entries will be accepted based on the lowest indices submitted to
a maximum of 144 competitors in each division.
http://www.flagstick.com/images/ottc...stration06.pdf
a maximum of 144 competitors in each division.
And then after this post by mberube , Steve Karam posted this:
He's not a member anywhere. He just said he was 7.2 and paid the $$
They were full and denied others with lower handicaps which is wrong but then again, rules aren't for everyone I guess.
Mr Karam:
I played with you for the last few years until 2 month ago. 99% of my games played is with you..
Let me ask you Mr Noback or Mr Steve Karam.
Did you got that handicapping index for me form your handicap tracking system at your site at NCGT? ..
Is that an official handicap? . .? Are you sanctioned by any golfing body? Do you bend the rules of golf to suit your tour events. Or are you above the PGA or RCGA to have your own rules as it fits you. .....
An unofficial handicap of 13.5 up to 2 months ago is a reflection of 95 % the games I have played with you and you have entered all those scores for me in your system over the last three or 4 years. Since I have not been playing with you for the last few month, I have dropped my unofficial handicap to 10 as of tournament day. and if I enter my last scores it will drop even more. Why did I stopped playing with you and in your tour events?
I got fed up with you , your attitude, lack of respect for the rules of golf and for your playing partners and your crafted gamesmanship at the golf cours. . God knows and many others in this forum know too that I tried to teach you to show some respect for this game and your FC's. ... . But , I gave up. and decided not to play with you anymore because you brought out the worst in me. You quite half the way through the game everytime you were not having a good round . For you every putt inside the six feet is an automatic gimme and if the putt doesn't fall in, you chase it with your putter head and guide it in for one putt.. and if you are outside 6 feet. no matter what happens with your first putt the second one is a gimme regardless. Did you ever register a 3 putt?
How many times did you pissed off your playing partners because you were being loosing to . You pissed them off so bad until they gave up playing, lost concentration and then you started playing happily after. Have you ever finished a round applying the golf rules to yourself . Did you ever finished a hole where you were going to register more than a double or a bogie. Or you just pick up the ball , walked away marking down your max.
You think you are a better player than many others.. Is that because you play at Golf O Max sims at under par and always on the old software. ? How many times have you took out your driver to putt with or an iron for several holes to play with., because you were not having a good game like your FCs, just to piss them off.. How many times you walked away from the green and went on to the next tee without waiting for them to finish up the hole..?
I still played with you . Because I thought if I can handle you on the golf course I can handle anybody.
but I didn't get anywhere with you. you are still the same . and you will be the same . You wasted half of your life doing other things and wasting the other half playing your kind of golf.
you posted that I played my best round ever. you knew better that It wasn't . you were told of my scores at late fall last year after the handicapping entry was over. You know that's when I was off work and had some time to play golf. You were told of my score of 71 at Falcon from the back tees. I posted it at the members only site of yours that my best official round of golf for a 77 at Predator in citizen tourney, also I posted the two other scores in the same week in your system and on the same post for 77 and 78 at Meadows, just days before the tournament.
Let me tell you my Friend, since I have stopped playing with you . I have been enjoying the game again and forgotten all about the games that I played with you. I have forgotten about the ditches being a water hazard for others and becoming a water drainage for you. Now they are either ditches or water drainage. I have forgotten about no stick handling the ball rule in the rough and many times seeing you picking your ball quickly from the rough that was hardly visible with the excuse of identifying it without marking it and placing it a few inches away where the ball was sitting high and up. I used to turn my face away so you don't feel bad about your action and I pretended that I didn't see and you knew that too, just to make you play and not to piss me off... I played in your tour and won 4 times in one year playing 5 or 6 under my handicap each time in some events to win. Do you know why? Because I was not playing with you on those rounds. I'll tell you how everything turned around for me . It wasn't until I played a match play game with Mpare. It was then that I realized again how fun this game is and what a difference it make to play with a true gentleman. Just before I make my last putt that was for the match, I stopped and said to Michael, " No matter what happens with this putt, win or loose, I had a great time playing with you " . after the putt I hugged him twice and I thanked him, I also thanked him publicly in your forum for sharing his day with me and giving me such a great time. That was the turning point for me. I also played with Reid a few weeks ago and some other guys from this board , I enjoyed the game and the company truly. I didn't play well and it was my worst score in years, but I made sure that my bad game didn't ruin our good time and left a good impression of me regardless of the game . I still owe him a beer. For the last 2 month I have been out playing with strangers. sometimes with grandpas and grandmas . I truly enjoy playing with them young and old players or beginners. I share a good conversation with them. share my snack or they share their snack with me. I encourage them and give them some tips and I take some tips from them. Some think that I am a hero playing with them. I see the excitement in their face when I hit a shot. Not like you, they don't go on the next tee swearing at me because I reached the par 5 greens in 2 . . or I drove the ball way past them off the tee. It doesn't matter who they are, but it is just a pure joy playing with anybody other than you after all this years playing with you.
Next topic.
You can read Mr, Karam? But apparently just don't comprehend. Do you understand that "a maximum of 144 competitors in each division were allowed" quoted by mberube from the source.?. Where did you find out that I denied other people from entering the tournament.? Or how did you figured that out? Isn't there only 136 that attended the tourney? . Did I deny you or anybody whom you know that didn't get in because of me. Speak out please.
I know for a fact that I have an average game but better than handicapping INDEX that Steve has on his site. BTW. Steve had the opportunity to make his remarks at his private forum on his site in response to my first post after the tourney at Greyhawk in his forum. But he choose to come to this site and post . He possibly thought I won't be replying in this forum. .... , But I have had a few sleepless nights and had to do this.
Above all Steve knew that I am playing in citizen tourney and that I have been accepted to play long before the tourney began. He called me and asked me. .. I think his plan was to wait and see if I play to my assessed handicap or not . "Damn do, Damn not". He could have discussed it with me before , Why didn't he? he could have called citizen, why didn't he?
He waited to post here because I have been refusing to play in his NCGT events and refusing to play with him anymore. Maybe here is why?
here is a copy of reply to Steve's last email with the links deleted.
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve
To: Farzin
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 9:10 AM
Subject: tour
What happening Farzin?
Are you not playing with the tour anymore?
Or just not ME?
and my response to him was this.
" I am having a lot fun playing golf . Whenever you think you are ready to play Golf . let me know."
I would like to tell Mr karam one more time that I am not going to play with him or at his tour events again until he starts playing true golf, Like a Gentleman and play by the rules. as I replied to his email not long ago and told him on the phone many times.
And why and how I registered in Citizen tourney.
I registered to play and assess my game in a true official tourney. Not having an official handicap and not being a member anywhere, but just to proof a point. I decided very late in the process to apply. With an assessed handicap of 7.2 index and being late for applying, I truly thought that I have no chance to get in because of many more applicants with better than 7.2 having the priorities. I also never thought that my unofficial handicap would be an issue because it is unofficial, as long as I can have some pro who knows my game vouch for me as it states on the app form.
MR el tiger: or The Great Tiger, Terry.
This is what you wrote.
"So the ends justify the means" then?
"He cheated and lied to get into a tournament he shouldn't be in, bumping someone else who genuinely met all of the qualifications but hey - that's OK because he had a good first round!
The guy listed himself as a member of Greyhawk when apparently he is not. He listed his index as 7.2 when it is really much higher and above the minimum level required to enter the tournament. He just shot his PB round of 77 at the tournament - so clearly his index was not 7.2 before he entered it. If that's not called lying and cheating, then what do you call it?
I though honesty and integrity were important in golf. Apparently not to everyone"
For your information I never registered myself as a GreyHawk member. The only think that I can think of is because the pro who signed my app is a very well known person and he is from GreyHawk.. There are a good number of independent players in Citizen tourney that they had a pro signed their app. They don't belong to any club or have an official handicap. . Did they all cheated and lied ? What if somebody had an unofficial handicap of one? wouldn't he still be required to have a pro sign his app.? I have no official handicap but I think I can play to a 7.2 handicap and that is what I said to the pro who signed the application form and put the club name where he is from on the form and that's possibly how Citizen associated me with Greyhawk.. He knows me well and he is aware of to what degree I can play this game. He never questioned a 7.2 Index. . He is a CPGA head pro and a true gentleman, Are you more qualified than he is . Maybe Mr Karam is. I forgot he is above CPGA and his unofficial handicap based on stableford scoring system for his tournaments is more valid. He also won't allow nobody to carry a range finder under any circumsmstances although it is sanctioned by CPGA and PGA. He is above them.. What a joke?. He and Steve and Noback make up the committee with no landscape. all the events are played with stick handling which really is not an issue. the issue is that it is an unofficial handicap tracking system not certified by cpga or any official golfing body.. therefore has no validation.
I still have the original copy of my Application because it was faxed to Citizen. Those of you who are interested I can Fax you a copy. you see for yorself where in that app I said that I am from Grey Hawk.
Terry:
I hope that you do not do your job as a referee the same way you referred to me
another quote by Terry
"I know Farzin and have played golf with him several times. I congratulate him on shooting a personal best score - but that doesn't negate the fact that what he did was wrong. A true friend would tell him that"
You don't know me and you just proved it that you can not be a friend. I thought Steven was a friend for last few years.LOL.
I have played with you once many years ago at nations golf course on a tourney and once or twice at Golf O Max on those winter tourneys. It has been the most boring rounds I have ever played with anybody in my life . your five practice swing and 3 times backing off and then proceeding to hit the ball just to duff it is unreal. your opinion on this game is as valid as your game on this forum. you may need to back up and validate your opinion 3 times before you post another thing about me. you give advice and lessons to others as how to play this game and how to correct their swing on this forum. How ironic that is. When was the last time you broke 90 playing a tourney with all the rules applied and play the ball as it lies or just a regular round?. .and that amongst all great players on this board, you came out so strong bashing me. How should I respond to you eltigre? Did I take your spot or somebody whom you know was refused to enter because of me. Didn't you read that there was only 136 players.
Mr EL TIGER
I also read your last post that Noback's is the instigator or a troller. you observed that very well. It was obvious to me and I was anticipating that Steve will do his best to step on me. No matter if I do well or if I fail to deliver. he called me to inquire about it a few nights before tourney began. He was told the same stuff here and that is how he knew about my tourney index on my app. . He did not have the courage to speak up like a man in this forum or on his forum or talk to me directly. He gave me thumps up on his post here. what a joke. Thank you Mr. Steven Karam. and you Eltigre were the one who was fooled by him.
And finally
I am going to ask every body on this board that if you think that I have taken your spot and you were denied entering to this tourney because of me. Please accept my sincere apologies.
I thank all of those who had some kind words to say and those who were just looking to find an answer without insulting and accusing me of anything. I also thank all those who stopped The great Tiger for being so mean. AND MANY THANKS TO THOSE WHO CONTACTED ME FROM OUT OF TOWN AND IN TOWN TO GIVE ME THEIR SUPPORT.
Conclusion.
I like to say that if I play in this tourney again or not It really doesn't matter to me. I made my point to a few proud handicappers with no-balls that not only their attitude on the golf course is unbearable and their lack of etiquette or sportsmanship, but they are full of themselves and they should bring some game to the course rather than their gamesmanship.
Cheers
Farzin
I did play yesterday, I did not finish. I gave up after the 10th hole, Also Steve was not there with me today to play his gamesmanship on the course but his gamesmanship on this forum had a major effect on me. I have been very stressed over this for the last few days. And even today on the practice range before the game I couldn't block all the stuff that was said on this forum about me. I knew that I won't be performing, and that is how it was. No concentration ,No game. My head and my body were to separate identities. anytime I looked at the ball I saw a little Steven instead. Plus we had the rain delay and were clocked , I thought it would be best if I leave and have my FC crouise along. I hope that thay did well.
Cheers
Farzin
Nice post
His post was well deserved but i think that personal issues on this board need to be worked out elsewhere, either on email, over the phone or in person.
I second this.Quote:
Originally Posted by John
There is some constructive discussion happening regarding tweaking this tournament though.
You think? :laughing:Quote:
Originally Posted by John
2 sides to every story but I'm not going there.:rolleyes
This has the be the longest post ever!!!
I don't deal in could haves or would haves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivas Irons
If my integrity was questioned on an open forum like this i would have replied as well, some silly things were said that didn't need to be.
Woo hoo!
:rolleyes Fine then, there's no point debating the issue with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andru
All I can extract from this statement is that you feel it was okay to provide a bogus handicap because in the end, the field was not full.
Using that same logic, if I drive around drunk that would be okay with you, even though I COULD HAVE run someone over - you don't deal in could have's. As long as it doesn't actually happen, it's all good?
Nope. :rolleyes
I second that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andru
Farzin, you have my support, for whatever that is worth.
It’s just sad that all this prevented you from playing your game yesterday.
Good lord Are you crazy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivas Irons
You think a person entering a meanless amateur tournament without an official handicap is as pressing an issue in society as someone who drinks and drives?
The two situations don't belong in the same paragraph, or forum for that matter.
Give me a break, we both know it's not the same, so don't attempt to distort the issue with this sort of rhetorical nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andru
I am referring to your statement of:
That sounds pretty cut & dry to me, no? - as far as you're concerned it doesn't matter what could have or would have happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andru
Anyway, the issue for me is not this specific "incident" (as inconsequential as it is) but the rules of entry for the tournament. I thought BC made some excellent points in his post, I think it would be nice to point this discussion in that direction.
What is really amazing is that this thread is still alive...
What are you a lawyer or something. I think you know my statement is directly related to this thread you're the one that brought up drinking and driviing. from now on I'll attach a legal disclaimer with my comments so I can't be held liable. :rolleyesQuote:
Originally Posted by Shivas Irons
BC made some points that I happen to disagree with. I don't think providing more resistance to entering a tournament is the way to grow the game of golf. I understand there's a need to solve a yet to be proven problem ( it's pretty much all speculation at this time ). But the OVGA has it's ultra restrictive good ole boyz club in place. I'm glad the citizen is more 'Open' allowing people to compete and learn how to play tournament golf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivas Irons
Giving someone one round for 100 bucks will ony discourage fringe players from trying. Therefore they never get experience and improve. Kicking someone out for a year if they don't perform is equally as short sighted. You guys keep trying to make this life or death and it's not. It's a silly little amateur tournament that no one cares about. There's maybe 10 people who can identify the last 3 winners ( without using a reference ).
The world's largest amateur tournament in Myrtle, at least they call it the largest, requires a valid USGA or equivilant handicap. And this isn't just a signed application form with a guestimated handicap. It requires a handicap card, and sometimes verification with the handicap chairman at the given club. In the case of the citizen, a valid handicap card presented at the sign-in table would certainly cut down on the ineligible entries.
off topic i know, but is the handicapping tool on this site (which i use) 'official'?
I'd say that's about as close to topic as this thread has been for the last 25 posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Jack
I am not positive, but I think its unofficial.