2008 Play-off Officiating

Not sure about you guys but I want to watch hockey with Refs that don't CONTROL the out come of a Game......

So far the only game I watched that seemed FAIR was the Boston vs Montreal and that was tough for me to watch it that way as I'm a Boston fan...

Minni just got the royal ..you know what...Why does it look like the League is having a HUGE say in who wins and loses? or is it just me.....

Stars vs Ducks....It was sick last night with the calls against the Ducks

Sharks vs Flames...Calgary was shut right down last night by the Refs.

Detroit vs Nas...Did not watch enough to say either way...

Pitt vs Ott...This is the winner so far..It's so one sided it's sick

Was vs Phil...They allowed the Capitals to get in the game

NJ vs Rangers ..stole this game from NJ or at least a chance to tie.

Good The Wild just scored in OT to mess up the Refs job....

They allow a goal that should not have been and there is no review....

Shows how bad they were against the Wild at the end of the 3rd..That they allow a goal to stand that shouldn't

I won't talk about the jobs that the refs are doing in the Sens series as that will just come off as sour grapes, but the jobs the refs are doing tonight in Montreal is TERRIBLE!!!

If I didn't know any better I'd say that both refs have $$ on the Habs - Brutal.......constant stream to to box since the Bruins tied it up

And there ya go, OT PP goal - Pathetic!!

the NHL wants MTL and PIT on the conf. final. More money in their pocket

Not the Habs' fault if they can afford better officiating than Boston. Jacobs has always been a cheap SOB. :P

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Originally Posted by Hacker

I won't talk about the jobs that the refs are doing in the Sens series as that will just come off as sour grapes, but the jobs the refs are doing tonight in Montreal is TERRIBLE!!!

If I didn't know any better I'd say that both refs have $$ on the Habs - Brutal.......constant stream to to box since the Bruins tied it up

And there ya go, OT PP goal - Pathetic!!

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The refs have been brutal this year. Now in the playoffs there are even worse and not just in one series.I admit they have a tough job and they are always picked on by somebody.But they are not making it any easier not too.My wife who is not a big hockey was watching the games with me and she said is that team paying the ref. I watch almost every playoff game and this year seems the worst i have ever seen.It is just so inconsistent.There is a big differences from the young refs and old refs in the way they call the game maybe thats the reason.

Anyone see the goal the predators got disallowed? Goal went in well before the net got knocked off its moorings. The puck also went in before the ref blew his whistle. No goal, no review. The ref's reasoning was that they were about to blow the whistle....even though he can clearly be seen mouthing "the net was off, the net was off" on the ice. They never went upstairs, and Nashville didn't get the first goal of the game. Absolutely terrible. It's plays like that that make people think the refs are being told what to do by head office. The guys on ice reaction was that the net was off - that's reviewable. But, by the time he got over to Trotz to explain, the explanation was "i was in the process of blowing my whistle." Hmm, why the sudden change of heart? Ridiculous!!!

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Originally Posted by jonf

Anyone see the goal the predators got disallowed? Goal went in well before the net got knocked off its moorings. The puck also went in before the ref blew his whistle. No goal, no review. The ref's reasoning was that they were about to blow the whistle....even though he can clearly be seen mouthing "the net was off, the net was off" on the ice. They never went upstairs, and Nashville didn't get the first goal of the game. Absolutely terrible. It's plays like that that make people think the refs are being told what to do by head office. The guys on ice reaction was that the net was off - that's reviewable. But, by the time he got over to Trotz to explain, the explanation was "i was in the process of blowing my whistle." Hmm, why the sudden change of heart? Ridiculous!!!

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I agree. I said the same thing when they showed the ref saying the net is off.

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Originally Posted by jonf

Anyone see the goal the predators got disallowed? Goal went in well before the net got knocked off its moorings. The puck also went in before the ref blew his whistle. No goal, no review. The ref's reasoning was that they were about to blow the whistle....even though he can clearly be seen mouthing "the net was off, the net was off" on the ice. They never went upstairs, and Nashville didn't get the first goal of the game. Absolutely terrible. It's plays like that that make people think the refs are being told what to do by head office. The guys on ice reaction was that the net was off - that's reviewable. But, by the time he got over to Trotz to explain, the explanation was "i was in the process of blowing my whistle." Hmm, why the sudden change of heart? Ridiculous!!!

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I saw that and it was one of the worst calls I have ever seen in my life.

I'm a Sens fan, so I don't really care who wins this game. I've been a referee for 16 years, so I know how tough the job can be. But I've always thought Marouelli was a terrible referee and this only confirms it.

One of the cardinal rules of officiating is that you never change your call after the whistle. Referees are only human and we sometimes make mistakes, and most players realize that and accept it as part of the game. But what they can't accept is dishonesty. Marouelli obviously disallowed the goal because he thought the net came off first, and then changed his story so that the play would not be reviewed. That is inexcusable.

Is this a conspiracy from the head office of the NHL? I doubt it. What it shows to me is a referee who believes he is more important than the game that is being played and the players who are playing it. Our national sport deserves better.

In the same game Hasek was given 2 minutes for holding Radulov stick... just an awful call and the Preds scored on the power play. So do you guys think the NHL phoned the referees and told them to give a stupid penalty to the Wings... The referees and not cheating and the league is not telling them who should win. Are there some bad calls, no doubt but not more on one team than another...

Another thing, if Kerry Fraser is involved in a game you can bet there will be some controversy... you just don't know what team will be mad at him...

Enjoy the play-off... By the way Dallas has 5 power play goals, did you guys think the Ducks are happy with the zebras...

It is just terrible...That Montreal, Boston game with 3 minutes left makes you wonder what is going on...

ya but the ducks take alot of penalties....thats there style and they are the highest penalized team....it doesnt suprise me that the stars are up 2 on them.

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Originally Posted by Bouche

ya but the ducks take alot of penalties....thats there style and they are the highest penalized team....it doesnt suprise me that the stars are up 2 on them.

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Exactly and they admitted they took too many stupid penalties in Game 1. Can't blame the Refs for the Ducks stupidity when it comes to infractions.

I'd love to see all the "WANNA BE REFS" wearing the stripes during an NHL Playoff Game :-)

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Originally Posted by Golfbum

Exactly and they admitted they took too many stupid penalties in Game 1. Can't blame the Refs for the Ducks stupidity when it comes to infractions.

I'd love to see all the "WANNA BE REFS" wearing the stripes during an NHL Playoff Game :-)

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I don't think they pick on one team more then another .It is just so inconsistent.I think there is a big differences from the young refs and old refs in the way they call the game maybe thats the reason.They have a tough job because if they do a good job there is still somebody blaming them.

That "tripping" call in overtime was one of the worst non-penalties I've ever seen. Absolutely brutal and it handed the game to the Canadiens (and I'm cheeing for Montreal). Terrible.

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Originally Posted by foxman

I don't think they pick on one team more then another .It is just so inconsistent.I think there is a big differences from the young refs and old refs in the way they call the game maybe thats the reason.They have a tough job because if they do a good job there is still somebody blaming them.

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You hit the nail right on the head. Calls have been inconsistent for years in hockey. One ref sees it one way, the other ref sees it differently.

I'll tell you one thing, I would not want that job. Coaches hollering at you, players hollering at you, fans booing you. On the road constantly, away from their families.

No Thank You, that would not be for me.

Hey I am not saying they do not make bad calls. However the game is fast, that is why the NHL and other leagues went to the two man ref system. One ref sees a trip from a different angle and lets it go, the other calls it tripping. From his point of view it looked like tripping.

Maybe if the NHL went to no contact hockey there would not be as many calls :lmfao

I beleive Refs try to control the game, but not the scoring. Think about this, does it really matter to the boys wearing the stripes who wins the Stanley Cup? :scratchch

The biggest problem, as mentioned, is the inconsistency. The calls have become yet another component to the "bounces" part of the game. The playoffs are so tight that all it takes is one bad "bounce" to screw you over. I realize it is tough to call these games. The game is as fast as ever and it must be brutally tough to pick everything up. Regardless, that last call on Boston has to be the cheapest and worst call I have seen in a long time.

I thought and still think it was a bit of a cheap penalty. Mark recchi said that anytime a player reaches from behind and hit the skates he deserve a penalty.

This is my point, why would Reich who is about 10 feet behind the puck would give the player a one hand slash on the skates... not too smart. This created a turnover in the offensive (for the Bruins) zone and could have lead to a scoring chance. Basically Reich didn't leave the refs any choice but calling a penalty.

Reich should had kept his stick in control and skate back to defend his goalie...

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Originally Posted by fundonny

That "tripping" call in overtime was one of the worst non-penalties I've ever seen. Absolutely brutal and it handed the game to the Canadiens (and I'm cheeing for Montreal). Terrible.

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I guess no one saw Mark Recchi during the second intermission of Dal/Anh game last night. He was saying, since post lock-out, the players have been told that sticks in the feet (even if a player accidently steps on another player's stick) will be called. The Bos player put his stick in the feet of the Mtl player and he went down. Penalty, end of story.

I have watched both Sens games so far and I haven't been disappointed with the reffing. Sure you get the odd questionable call, but nothing that's jumped out at me. I think people in general just have a hate on for the refs. Your team is not winning, the blame has to go somewhere, let's blame the refs.

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Originally Posted by Geoff Johnston

I guess no one saw Mark Recchi during the second intermission of Dal/Anh game last night. He was saying, since post lock-out, the players have been told that sticks in the feet (even if a player accidently steps on another player's stick) will be called. The Bos player put his stick in the feet of the Mtl player and he went down. Penalty, end of story.

I have watched both Sens games so far and I haven't been disappointed with the reffing. Sure you get the odd questionable call, but nothing that's jumped out at me. I think people in general just have a hate on for the refs. Your team is not winning, the blame has to go somewhere, let's blame the refs.

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I have watched all 8 match ups and its the same in everyone of them "inconsistent".And like i stated earlier i think the difference is the old refs and new refs have different opinions whats a penalty and whats not.

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Originally Posted by foxman

I have watched all 8 match ups and its the same in everyone of them "inconsistent".And like i stated earlier i think the difference is the old refs and new refs have different opinions whats a penalty and whats not.

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And it all has to do with the two ref system, not so much the "old" refs and the "new" refs. The two ref system is great for catching behind the play stuff, but sometimes, like stated, they have two different ideas of what constitutes a penalty. And with them splitting the ice into two halves for each to police, the back ref sometimes feels obligated to not call penalty so to not step on the other ref's toes. Is it a perfect system, no. And that's because they are human. Humans make mistakes. So stop the belly-aching, sit back and watch some hockey. Complaining about it here is not going to change anything. I know fans just want to vent because their team is not performing, but in the end does it really accomplish anything?


And as for the "control" remark, not sure if you are aware but the refs are out to instill some sense of control. They are out there to protect the players and make sure the game is played within the rules.

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Originally Posted by Geoff Johnston

And it all has to do with the two ref system, not so much the "old" refs and the "new" refs. The two ref system is great for catching behind the play stuff, but sometimes, like stated, they have two different ideas of what constitutes a penalty. And with them splitting the ice into two halves for each to police, the back ref sometimes feels obligated to not call penalty so to not step on the other ref's toes. Is it a perfect system, no. And that's because they are human. Humans make mistakes. So stop the belly-aching, sit back and watch some hockey. Complaining about it here is not going to change anything. I know fans just want to vent because their team is not performing, but in the end does it really accomplish anything?


And as for the "control" remark, not sure if you are aware but the refs are out to instill some sense of control. They are out there to protect the players and make sure the game is played within the rules.

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Spoken like a "TRUE HOCKEY FAN" not someone whining because their team is losing a series against a better hockey team.
:thumbsup :thumbsup

As I said before, the players all wanted the hug, tug, slash, trip and trip removed from the game. The NHL has done that. Quit whining, watch the games. Is it the Pens fault the Refs call penalties? NO
Is it Ottawa's fault they can not score goals? YES.

I'll say this right now, so the "HAHA YOUR SHARKS GOT BEAT OUT" crowd can read this. If my Sharks get taken out in the first round by Calgary it is because Calgary out played them. Plain and simple. They would not be the first high seeded team to lose a first round and they will not be the last. So if they lose you guys can chirp me all you want, and that is fine. I'll accept that fact they were out played. It happens every year.

I would tend to think that Ottawa Fans might have seen this coming after the Sens went in the tank the second half of the season. :scratchch

:stirthepo

Fans always get upset about penalty calls, but these are judgement calls and it is always easy to second-guess somebody else's judgement - especially if you have something at stake in the decision. Some calls are obvious and easy, many others are in the "grey area" where the call could go either way. Its hard to explain if you haven't done it, but I don't get worked up over penalty calls very often.

The most important calls a referee makes in a game are actually the goals. Those are the calls that can determine who wins and who loses. Those are the calls that the referee HAS to get right.

Of course, 90% of the time those calls are easy to make. And in the NHL they have video replay for the other 10%, so at that level anyway it is rare for a team to get screwed by a call on a goal. Which is why I think the Marouelli call in the Detroit/Nashville game was so bad. He basically lied so his call couldn't be overturned, and put himself before the integrity of the game. That is simply not acceptable, and I hope he is cut for the next playoff round.

Obviously there is confusion when there's a two Ref system...who calls what...what do you think about a rule that the "trailing" referee (ie. the one that is not inside the blue line) CANNOT call a penalty inside that blue line, with the exception of the ones that the linesmen can also call (the highsticking causing injury, etc.)?

I could go on a rant about how the Sens are getting screwed by the officials, but that would fall on deaf ears, and would also avoid the real issue here. No matter who you cheer for, the reffing is crap in the NHL.

At this level we should all be able to expect some level of consistency from the refs, but we are not getting that in any series: penalties change from shift to shift. Sometimes a shove after the play is a penalty, sometimes it isn't.

The refs do NOT protect any goalies from slashes/charges after the whistle, and yet they give penalties to any player who protects their goalie

They do not call legit penalties that take away scoring chances, but they call the chincy 'high stick' penalties that don't take away chances and are embellished by players. I know a high stick is a penalty, but so is a trip or a hook. Either call them all, or let them all go.

Anyway, the point is...though I will admit that I am bitter about the reffing in the ottawa series...that doesn't change the fact that the reffing overall in the playoffs is atrocious and inconsistent

At this level we should at least be able to expect consistency from the refs. I have a hard time determining why things are penalties, and I have the benefit of slow motion and multiple replays. How are the players, who have to react in real time, supposed to know what is a penalty and what isn't.

These guys sacrifice for years to get to the big show. Some of them will be around for years, and some might only get one shot at the cup. Shouldn't they at least have the benefit of consistent, logical reffing?

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Originally Posted by sensfan63

Obviously there is confusion when there's a two Ref system...who calls what...what do you think about a rule that the "trailing" referee (ie. the one that is not inside the blue line) CANNOT call a penalty inside that blue line, with the exception of the ones that the linesmen can also call (the highsticking causing injury, etc.)?

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Both referees have equal authority, and can call a penalty anywhere on the ice. That's the way it should be.

As I stated earlier, the most important calls are not the penalties - they are the goals. Therefore, the "deep" ref MUST watch the puck and the play around the puck whenever it is inside the blue line - especially if the offensive team has possession. There is a lot of other stuff going on (especially in front of the net), that only the "back" ref will be able to watch.

I highly doubt that NHL referees find the two-man system confusing. The officials are simply the third "team" on the ice, and on some nights the "team chemistry" can be a little off - but they know what their job is. Now when it comes to the rules themselves and how the NHL wants them enforced, well that's another story...

Even though the officiating may be suspect, the Sens are losing because they are a step behind. Therefore I simply cannot get too upset about the refs in the Sens series as it does not matter. The Sens are injured, tired, whatever, but simply not good enough this year. As mentioned before they will get a good long rest this spring/summer to heal and recover.

Where the officiating must be driving people nuts is in a series like Min-Col where all the games are in OT. Here a bad call (or non-call) can and probably will decide the series.