New Rule on Playing alone & HC

Printable View

04-13-2016 07:23 AM
stevek

New Rule on Playing alone & HC

I'm wondering if the new rule about solo play rounds not being eligible for HC purposes will affect many golfers. Before I got injured two years ago I played at least twice a week alone.
04-13-2016 09:09 AM
jvincent

Since the majority of golfers don't actually carry a valid handicap, it's not a big deal.

What really irks me about the change is that it basically says that if you play alone, you cannot be trusted to enter a valid score. Given that there are so many ways to game the handicap system playing with other golfers, the fact that they singled out this particular scenario is just silly.

I could go on, but it would just get me annoyed.
04-13-2016 09:55 AM
infinity13

Completely agree jvincent.

So if I as a single join up with three other golfers that are complete strangers... is it really all that different than golfing alone? Perhaps I am misinterpreting the premise of the rule, do scorecards now need to be signed by your playing partners to be 'legitimate'? Seems somewhat unenforceable to me.
04-13-2016 11:27 AM
jvincent

There was an article in the most recent GolfCanada magazine about this issue and I only skimmed it, but I do remember them saying that scorecards didn't need to be signed.

So your point is a good one. If I play an "away game" with three strangers that score is somehow acceptable for handicapping purposes but one that I play by myself is not. GolfCanada uses the peer review excuse for not accepting scores when playing alone but this situation is, from a peer review perspective, no different than a round played alone.

Here is the quote from the GolfCanada website:

Quote:

Playing alone and necessary peer review: To further support the key System premise of peer review, scores made while playing alone will no longer be acceptable for handicap purposes. This change underscores the importance of providing full and accurate information regarding a player’s potential scoring ability, and the ability of other players to form a reasonable basis for supporting or disputing a posted score. (Section 5-1: Acceptability of Scores)

In their minds peer review is now MORE important than providing a full scoring record.
04-13-2016 05:28 PM
justsomeguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevek

I'm wondering if the new rule about solo play rounds not being eligible for HC purposes will affect many golfers. Before I got injured two years ago I played at least twice a week alone.

This new rule is for the USGA only. Golf Canada has stated that it does not apply in Canada.
04-13-2016 06:17 PM
jvincent

Nope, they changed their position, i.e. caved to the USGA, and it applies here too.
04-14-2016 09:21 AM
Big Johnny69

So do you need to input the name of one of the players you played with? With phone number? How do they plan to check/enforce this?
04-14-2016 09:42 AM
jvincent

Strictly speaking, Golf Canada doesn't have to do anything. They have made the rule and now it's up to the handicap committee at your club to enforce it.
04-14-2016 09:52 AM
jeffc

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvincent

Strictly speaking, Golf Canada doesn't have to do anything. They have made the rule and now it's up to the handicap committee at your club to enforce it.

and for those of us that don't belong to a club, it's meaningless?
04-14-2016 10:07 AM
jvincent

Like a lot of things Golf Canada does, the policy here is full of holes.

I haven't checked, but I assume they still have a public player program to allow people who aren't members of clubs keep a handicap. AFAIK, there is no peer review component to the PP program. So are PP handicaps still valid when used to play somebody that is a member at a club?
04-14-2016 02:04 PM
Big Johnny69

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvincent

Like a lot of things Golf Canada does, the policy here is full of holes.

I haven't checked, but I assume they still have a public player program to allow people who aren't members of clubs keep a handicap. AFAIK, there is no peer review component to the PP program. So are PP handicaps still valid when used to play somebody that is a member at a club?

I see where you're going with this....haha!
04-14-2016 02:15 PM
stevek

I haven't input a score for what seems forever, (Oct '15) so I'm not 100% sure; but, the Golf Canada program didn't require an attestor name to be entered for the score to be entered and counted.
04-23-2016 01:29 PM
justsomeguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevek

I haven't input a score for what seems forever, (Oct '15) so I'm not 100% sure; but, the Golf Canada program didn't require an attestor name to be entered for the score to be entered and counted.

They still don't. Now they ask if this was a solo round or not - I assume that if you choose "Yes" then the round will not be included in your handicap calculation. Of course there is no way to verify whether this was a solo round or not unless you actually played with the person, so I'm not sure how "peer review" is really improved. Another stupid change to the handicap system.

Thanks to this change, I estimate that about 50% of the rounds that I play each year will not count towards my handicap - including most of my rounds at the Metcalfe 9-hole course where I tend to score better. So much for the principle that all scores should be entered.

Meanwhile, a change that SHOULD be made to improve the handicap system locally never seems to be considered. I'm talking about the fact that the handicap season starts April 15th - a time when most courses are not even open, those that are open are in poor to sub-standard conditions with wet fairways and plugged balls and most players haven't touched a golf club in 5 months. The vast majority of golfers I have ever met score worse at the beginning of the year than at the end, so why not make the season May 1st to November 15th? As it is now, you can "legally" sandbag just by playing as many rounds as possible in the last two weeks of April - your handicap will skyrocket just in time for all those tournaments that start in mid-May. Not mine though - I've played 4 rounds so far but only 2 count.
04-23-2016 04:22 PM
Wknd_Warrior

Quote:

the fact that the handicap season starts April 15th - a time when most courses are not even open, those that are open are in poor to sub-standard conditions

yep.

Hadn't heard of this change, that could be a lot of rounds that don't get entered. It doesn't really matter to me though. It's nice to have a valid cap in case I might need it. I really don't care how it's calculated. I imagine it will end up being reasonably representative anyhow.
04-23-2016 04:27 PM
jvincent

Handicap season has started April 15 for as long as I can remember.
04-23-2016 05:53 PM
goochy

I am a Golf Canada PP member. I keep a valid handicap to track my progress and in case I need a valid HC back in the UK (many courses require this of guests). I also really enjoy playing alone..especially twilight....I just find it really relaxing and peaceful.
I 100% agree with what jvincent wrote. The new rule is certainly implying (if not stating directly) that you cannot be trusted to enter an accurate score if you play alone but if you play with a complete stranger you can.
There is no need to enter any other info except whether you played solo or not (and if you did your round is still recorded bit not used to calculate your index) so its still really just relying on a players honesty anyhow...as it always was....there was never a requirement to confirm scores. However as someone who probably plays 30% of my rounds alone its frustrating.
Golf Canada have said they changed to fit in with other governing bodies in an ongoing process to make handicapping a uniform global system one day
04-23-2016 08:19 PM
imozzie

I guess the thing I really don't understand is how they believe that this particular rule change will truly benefit the game? In a time with diminishing number of players, an aging population of those who do, fewer competitive players at club or other levels and decreasing revenues among courses trying to survive, when does additional regulation impacting the many to serve the few become a good idea? Been playing the game almost 50 years and hold a GC registered index...but not sure I will in future as most people I know don't...too many other recreational alternatives available. Over-regulation breeds non-compliance and ignorance due to complexity ultimately leading to the demise of the regulator....
04-24-2016 06:05 PM
justsomeguy

Played again today. Was supposed to play as a twosome but my playing partner wasn't feeling well so I went out alone. Caught up to a threesome at the 5th hole and I asked if I could join them. They said no because they were playing in a scramble with the two threesomes in front of them (I don't know why I couldn't still join them playing my own ball, but what am I supposed to do?). So I now have 5 rounds in but only 2 count on my handicap.

But here's my question. If they had said yes, I would have played 5 holes solo and 13 holes in a foursome. Would the score count? If the score counts, what scores do I put for the 5 solo holes - my actual scores (without peer review), or the "most-likely-scores" that I would have used if I had not played those 5 holes at all?

I can see this working the other around way too. You start your round with a couple of beginners, but after a few holes with an empty course in front they suggest that you play through on your own. What are you supposed to do - endure a 6-hour round so your score will count? I don't think so.
04-26-2016 11:13 AM
tigger12

Is it possible that it was put in place to stop the player whose rounds by themselves are consistently higher than those played with others? Thus, plugging a possible loophole for players who want to keep their handicap up?
I am not saying I agree with the rule change I am just trying to look at it from the rules official's point of view.
04-26-2016 06:02 PM
justsomeguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigger12

Is it possible that it was put in place to stop the player whose rounds by themselves are consistently higher than those played with others? Thus, plugging a possible loophole for players who want to keep their handicap up?
I am not saying I agree with the rule change I am just trying to look at it from the rules official's point of view.

What sandbaggers typically do is NOT enter their good rounds. They now have another reason/excuse to not enter them.

Since the handicap calculation is based on your best 10 rounds in the last 20, it is much harder to manipulate your handicap by entering bad rounds. All your good rounds count, but only 50% of your bad ones do.
04-27-2016 07:06 PM
justsomeguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

But here's my question. If they had said yes, I would have played 5 holes solo and 13 holes in a foursome. Would the score count? If the score counts, what scores do I put for the 5 solo holes - my actual scores (without peer review), or the "most-likely-scores" that I would have used if I had not played those 5 holes at all?

So I posed the question to Golf Canada and here was their reply:

The 5 holes would actually be scored as Par Plus as per section 4-2 in the handicap manual (as if you never played them). All remaining holes obviously scored as you normally would for handicap purposes.

So I guess their position is that "peer review" is now so important that I should now ignore real hole scores and substitute fake ones where peer review is not present.
04-28-2016 11:09 AM
Sakuraba

Golf Canada has had the option to click "validate" and add the name of another Golf Canada member when entering your scores. I've been lazy, but I guess I'll start using this.
04-28-2016 12:08 PM
Big Johnny69

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sakuraba

Golf Canada has had the option to click "validate" and add the name of another Golf Canada member when entering your scores. I've been lazy, but I guess I'll start using this.

And if you are not playing with a fellow Golf Canada member?
04-28-2016 12:16 PM
jeffc

or if you just go out alone and get paired up with people you don't know? Same as playing alone IMHO.
04-29-2016 11:14 AM
Big Johnny69

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffc

or if you just go out alone and get paired up with people you don't know? Same as playing alone IMHO.

I was merely referencing the fact that the GC site has a tab for validated rounds from other GC members as opposed to simply inputting anybody's name, member or not.
04-29-2016 09:13 PM
justsomeguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Johnny69

And if you are not playing with a fellow Golf Canada member?

It does not matter who you are playing with - you do not need anyone to attest or validate your round. I played 9 holes solo today and caught up to a couple of kids on the 9th tee who could not have been more than 14 years old - if I had played at least 7 holes with them then the round would be acceptable for handicap purposes.
04-29-2016 09:20 PM
jeffc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Johnny69

I was merely referencing the fact that the GC site has a tab for validated rounds from other GC members as opposed to simply inputting anybody's name, member or not.

i guess my point was I am not sure what the difference is playing alone vs. playing with people I don't know and will never see again and more than likely don't have GC indexes or use that site. Either way what happened in my round is not verifiable by anyone and they are still relying on my honesty (or not) to input an accurate score.
05-02-2016 08:20 AM
mgedit

Clearly, anyone can fiddle their handicap if they are intent on doing that for whatever purpose ... vanity or trying to gain an advantage in competitions. I like having a legitimate handicap as it verifies progress, both positive and negative. I find it insulting to suggest that playing alone would lead me to cheat. Many people keep a handicap, play with others all the time, and have bearly a passing understanding of even the basic rules of golf. Playing under those conditions, no way their handicaps are valid. Mulligans, improper drops, gimmies ... the list is endless. Playing with others who don't know rules, or even what score you are recording does nothing to ensure the validity of the score you enter for handicap purposes, and certainly does nothing to protect the integrity of the game. To me, this a rule made to solve a non-existent problem. Cheers, Mike
05-02-2016 08:30 AM
Kilroy

BTW Mike, 'reasonable' gimmies are permitted in handicapping. You are quite right that many people don't really know how to enter scores correctly. Rules violations, esc, unplayed holes and mistaken assumptions about what is and isn't allowed. Also, who gets to decide what a reasonable gimmie is?