NCC and Golf

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05-21-2017 01:42 PM
big mac

NCC and Golf

This may be political and go against the forum rules but surely we can discuss it :-) With the number of middle of the road and less----why does the NCC handcuff it's private management companies with so many regulations. You would think that some of these courses were up and running long before the NCC took over and would have grandfathering clauses in them. I think it's time that the NCC sold the courses outright and let golf developers bring a couple of them back to their good old days. I have seen good improvement at Pine View---but it is very slow. I'm sure the story is the same elsewhere. Sure I know the market is mushy but that's not stopping LeBreton Flats and Rideau Carleton----offer what people want and there will be a decent return.
05-21-2017 08:02 PM
justsomeguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by big mac

This may be political and go against the forum rules but surely we can discuss it :-) With the number of middle of the road and less----why does the NCC handcuff it's private management companies with so many regulations.

And exactly what regulations would those be?

My understanding is that the NCC leases the land for a $1 and the only condition is that the land must be used for a golf course. If they sold the land outright, the "golf developers" would turn them into housing subdivisions.
05-21-2017 08:40 PM
Kilroy

Big Mac was pretty vague. Not sure what he is on about. Perhaps he's being careful not to violate forum rules, and I appreciate that.
I don't think the NCC's ownership of the land and it's management are politically charged topics at all so if that's the case, please feel free to discuss what's on your mind Big Mac.
05-21-2017 09:10 PM
Pine View

Just to clarify a few things.
1st - The NCC has been a good partner for our group to work with.
2nd - We pay a lot more than $1 / year in rent.
3rd - Improvements to Pine View have been extensive and are proceeding as fast as possible. The cost of the work is far more restrictive than anything to do with the NCC.
4th - The course is located in the greenbelt and can never be developed.
05-21-2017 09:24 PM
Kilroy

Thanks, Pine View. Gotta wonder where some 'knowledge' comes from
05-24-2017 08:34 PM
justsomeguy

Thanks Pineview.

FYI I believe the $1 / year in rent was what the City of Gloucester / Ottawa paid when they ran the course.
05-26-2017 10:55 AM
big mac

It seems the older I get the more things have to be spelled out. :-) Pine View--Champlain--Ville Moulin etc are on NCC regulated properties. There is only so much that can be done with the land because of rules and regulation set forth by the NCC. No where did I say it was to be sold housing developers--I said golf course developers. If the tight regulations were changed perhaps developers with more money would invest in the endeavor. We have 2 courses within the city proper with the potential to draw a full t-sheet every day--why can they not be improved any faster? Sure the green fee will be increased but folks will pay for quality. The problem is that there is not enough development $$ with the smaller management companies. I AM NOT bashing the present companies---I am only saying !!!! :-) The fellas at Pine View have done a great job and it shows - but look around.
05-26-2017 01:15 PM
Pine View

We have several major projects planned for the coming years. We are working as fast as we can but these things take time. We are not in a position to close the course to revamp it so the work has to be managed around a busy tee sheet.

I don't think Vieux Moulin is on NCC land. It has been sold to housing developers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by big mac

It seems the older I get the more things have to be spelled out. :-) Pine View--Champlain--Ville Moulin etc are on NCC regulated properties. There is only so much that can be done with the land because of rules and regulation set forth by the NCC. No where did I say it was to be sold housing developers--I said golf course developers. If the tight regulations were changed perhaps developers with more money would invest in the endeavor. We have 2 courses within the city proper with the potential to draw a full t-sheet every day--why can they not be improved any faster? Sure the green fee will be increased but folks will pay for quality. The problem is that there is not enough development $$ with the smaller management companies. I AM NOT bashing the present companies---I am only saying !!!! :-) The fellas at Pine View have done a great job and it shows - but look around.
05-26-2017 08:15 PM
justsomeguy

Pineview is correct about Vieux Moulin - it is destined to be a housing development soon. Besides Champlain and Pineview, I think the only other course on NCC land is the Capital Golf Centre on Bank Street.

The point is that if the NCC sells the land then it loses control of it. Regardless of who they sell the land to, the buyer can build whatever they want on it pending approval of the municipality.

Just look at what is happening with Glen Abbey. The course was built by the RCGA (now Golf Canada) as a permanent home for the Canadian Open. They decided to sell the course to ClubLink in 1998 - which I'm sure we can all agree is a "golf course developer". It is now 20 years later and ClubLink is going through the process of turning it into a housing development:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle27012533/

I'm sure that Golf Canada is not very pleased about this, but there is nothing they can do about it. ClubLink has also closed their Highland Gate course in Aurora so they can build houses on it, and there are several other golf courses in the GTA that are doing the same. These places are in business to make money, and if they can make more money building houses on their golf course then a lot of them will do just that. I don't think the NCC is going to risk letting that happen at Pineview or Champlain.
05-26-2017 09:10 PM
Ehmcee

The NCC also owns the land that White Sands is built on as well as the "river" holes at Chateau Cartier. I think they also own part of the land The Marshes was built on. There may be more.
05-26-2017 11:07 PM
justsomeguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ehmcee

The NCC also owns the land that White Sands is built on as well as the "river" holes at Chateau Cartier. I think they also own part of the land The Marshes was built on. There may be more.

I forgot about White Sands. One of the owners of Chateau Cartier wanted to get rid of the golf course and put condos between Aylmer Road and Lucerne Blvd a few years ago but I guess he lost that court battle.