Effect of driver length on distance

one of the most informative charts in Wishon's "Search for the Perfect Golf Club" shows what a swing robot which hit the ball dead center at a swing speed of 90 mph did with different driver lengths:

Driver length = 42 inches, ball speed = 133.0 mph, carry distance = 209.7 yards

Driver length = 46 inches, ball speed = 133.8 mph, carry distance = 211.0 yards

Why in the world would an average player like me attempt to hit a driver longer than 42 inches? You had better believe that it is exponentially more difficult to hit a 46 inch driver dead center than it is to hit a 42 inch driver flush...for a gain of 1.3yards!! What is the risk reward ratio?

Guess what my next driver length will be?

Depends on the golfer. there is this guy Bernie Baymiller who has been pushing long clubs for ages.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shoptalk/message/72567

i personally find that hard to believe

Which take SS?

nobody swings like a swing robot.....I suspect that this was done at a lower ss if the ball speed was 133......and what I think Tom was trying to show was that driver shaft length does not translate into the huge distance gains that people think that it does........

the majority of golfers will do better with a shorter driver and a higher loft....and I am building more 44 inch drivers with lofts of 12+ degrees than I ever have

there is alot more that needs to be considered .......some people do fine with a 46 inch driver depends if they can square the club and make good center contact...but for most the shorter club makes this easier to do so translates to better distances.

I am planning to build a 14 degree, 460cc driver, with a heavy 43" steel shaft, with the flex between A & R. I want to have a 15 degree 3 wood, 19 degree 5 wood, and a 23 degree 7 wood.

Wishon says that 80% of the distance gap in a set comes from the loft increments, and the other 20% from the length increments. I guess I will make all of these clubs 1" apart in length.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Weirfan

some people do fine with a 46 inch driver depends if they can square the club and make good center contact...but for most the shorter club makes this easier to do so translates to better distances.

---

The longer the club the worse the swing flaw gets:-) :-) IMO long clubs are only good for flat swings,smooth and flawless swings.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chieflongtee

IMO long clubs are only good for flat swings,smooth and flawless swings.

---

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rhh7

Driver length = 42 inches, ball speed = 133.0 mph, carry distance = 209.7 yards
Driver length = 46 inches, ball speed = 133.8 mph, carry distance = 211.0 yards

---

Hi rhh7

I too personally find this hard to believe.
I agree with Bernie B. that total wt. is critical to hitting longer drivers.

When was the last [or first time] you seen a guy / gal competiting at the Re/MAX World LD Championship using a driver of 42 inches in length?

Why do you think the LD community and the USGA capped maximum driver length?

I have written this in the past but perhaps it may be worth repeating.

At a major component company club making seminar years ago, a report was given of a "study" of several golfers hitting balls with drivers of lengths from 42" to, I believe, 46". Almost without exception, the longest drive occurred with the longest club. But more importantly, the LONGEST AVERAGE DRIVE occurred with the 42.5" driver.

For the macho type who wants to brag about the one 325 yarder he hit, on his way to a 90, longer is obviously better. However, for the golfer who wants to consistently hit fairways and score low, shorter is better.

Perhaps the answer is to find out how much distance one gains for every additional inch of club length and then find out how much one loses for hitting the ball an inch off centre. Then, using impact tape, find out how close you are to the centre with a shorter driver (very revealing) and then magnify this error when using a longer driver. Without ego influence, golfers would then play shorter drivers. But, how many of us don't have egos?

When you play for 50 years, and break 80 twice, you finally lose your ego. I am going shorter, heavier, bigger, with a more flexible shaft. I want to hit fairways and greens, I want to score!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rhh7

When you play for 50 years, and break 80 twice, you finally lose your ego. I am going shorter, heavier, bigger, with a more flexible shaft. I want to hit fairways and greens, I want to score!

---

Where I play now I scored in the 80's twice in 2005, and discovered that I still have an ego. It has motivated me to work even harder on my game with the goal of shooting my age :) before shooting in the 80's :grumpy: again.

Notice there was no mention of solving the problem by buying into the latest gimmick club.

I am not in the least opposed to progress, although I would favor a uniform ball requirement for the PGA tour.

I intend to break 80 with steel shafts in all of my clubs, and without a lob wedge. Going to do lots of practice on chipping and putting.

Going to hit at least 70% fairways. If this means using a 15 degree wood with a 42" shaft, so be it.

Going to hit the ball with a clear mind, devoid of swing keys or any mechanical thoughts whatsoever.

Like a good Zen monk, I shall be detached from the outcome of my shot. And the score will follow, grasshopper!

Here is an interesting excerpt from the linked PGA.com article
http://www.pga.com/improve/tips/equi...shon080304.cfm

"A fascinating statistic that goes along with this is the fact that the average driver length on the PGA Tour today is 44.5 inches... 1⁄2-inch to 1 inch shorter than what every amateur from scratch to hacker is supposed to buy and use! Seems funny that the best players in the game, guys who are so good they could almost cash a check with a rake, a hoe and a shovel are using a driver length that is shorter than what all of the amateurs are told to buy. Yes, there are the long drive competitors who use drivers built to over 50 inches in some cases. But these behemoths are definitely good athletes when it comes to swing coordination, and after all, they only need to hit ONE good drive. Your goal is to hit 14 of them in an average round of golf.
http://www.pga.com/improve/tips/equi...on_graphic.gif
So why the increase in club lengths, when the old clubmaking adage says longer clubs are more difficult to hit? Has the average height of a person increased greatly in the past 20 years to merit this change?
Maybe it has over the past 200 years, but certainly not over the last 20. Are golfers better ball strikers today than 20 years ago? The USGA tells us that the average handicap today is the same as it was back then... 17.
I am afraid to tell you there is one reason and one reason only that club lengths have been steadily increased by the standard-assembly club companies... competition for SALES, SALES and more SALES. IF you are somewhat athletically inclined, and IF you happen to hit a longer length driver right on the button, you will get a little more distance. But that IF is not something you want to bet on in Vegas."

This is why it happens: article
Three Scientific Reasons to go Shorter, Not Longer, with the Driver


Thanks to TWGT’s understanding of the science of clubfitting, we are pleased to offer Clubmakers some facts of physics in understandable terms for why so many golfers cannot consistently hit a standard 45-46" length driver they buy off the rack, and why they would be better off with a shorter driver length to get more from their swing ability.

1. Longer Drivers Have Lower Headweight Which Reduces the Possible Energy the Golfer can Deliver to Impact with the Ball for any Given Swing Speed

One of the most familiar and basic formulas of physics is E=1/2 mv2, which applies in golf to the line or transfer of energy from the clubhead to the ball. Energy is equal to one-half the mass of the clubhead times the velocity the golfer can swing the clubhead. In short, if the golfer can swing a driver with a heavier headweight the same speed they can swing a driver with a lighter headweight, the shot hit with the heavier clubhead will have a higher ball speed and fly farther.
This is part of the science which explains why golfers could possibly hit a club with a graphite shaft farther than a club with a heavier steel shaft. First, by changing from a heavy steel shaft to a light graphite shaft, the total weight of the club is lower, which in turn means the golfer should generate a higher swing speed with the same swing effort. Second, the headweight in the club built with the light graphite shaft will be greater for the same swingweight than the headweight in the club built with a heavier steel shaft. Thus the golfer should get a two boosts for more distance with graphite shafts over havier steel shafts – one from the higher swing speed that results from the lower total weight, and the other from the higher headweight in the club that is swung at the higher swing speed.

Clubmakers need to realize the second bit of science explained above can also pertain to shorter length drivers, especially when swung by less skilled golfers. A 45-46" driver will have a much lighter headweight at the same swingweight as a shorter length driver. Typical driver headweight for a 45-46" length driver is in the range of 188g to 198g. The usual headweight for a 43.5" to 44" driver will be in the area of 205g to 212g. Thus if the golfer swings the shorter driver the same speed as the longer driver, which, when you read point #3 in this discussion is very likely for many golfers, the shorter driver will transfer more energy to the ball for the same swing speed and hit the ball farther.

2. Longer Drivers Have Lower Headweight Which Reduces the Moment of Inertia of the Driver Head and Potentially Robs the Golfer of Forgiveness When the Ball is Hit Off Center

If you took the time to read the technical discussion previous to this one in this E-TECHreport, you know the science behind this point #2. The heavier headweight that comes with a shorter length driver automatically increases the MOI of the driver head at an approximate rate of 35 g-cm2 for each ONE gram of headweight increase. Thus, shorter length drivers can offer even more off center hit forgiveness than will longer length drivers.

3. Longer Drivers Increase the MOI of the Driver in the Full Swing and Put More Load and Stress on the Golfer Which can Cause the Swing to Break Down and/or Become less Repeatable

Virtually every teacher of the swing agrees that in a good, repeating golf swing, the spine remains stable during the backswing, downswing and finally, though impact with the ball. The spine is the axis around which you rotate your body and the club in making a full swing. As such, there is an important Moment of Inertia that includes the driver plus your hands, arms and shoulders as all are rotated together around the axis of your spine.
The longer the length of the driver and the farther the driver head is from the spine during the downswing, the higher this MOI will be, and from it, the more stress or load will be put on the golfer as he/she swings the club. How the golfer reacts in their swing to the greater load of a longer length driver determines a golfer’s ability to increase swing speed or not when using a longer length driver. This is a pretty complicated factor so let’s stop and take a look at a couple of diagrams to help explain what we mean.
http://www.wishongolf.com/etechrepor.../graphic01.jpg
In Diagram #1, we show the position of the club and the hands/arms in relation to the shoulders and the spine near the end of the backswing. The dashed line from the spine to the clubhead is the radius of rotation for the clubhead around the spine’s axis. MOI is defined as the mass of the club times the square of the radius of rotation. So the longer that dashed line, the higher the MOI about the spine axis, and from it, the more load placed back on the golfer. In addition, the longer the driver length, the longer the dashed line, so the MOI and load on the golfer increase when golfers use longer length clubs.
http://www.wishongolf.com/etechrepor.../graphic02.jpg
Diagram #2 shows how the dashed line representing the MOI radius of rotation about the golfer’s spin will be increased when the golfer unhinges the wrist-cock early in the downswing. The early release moves the clubhead and its mass farther from the golfer’s spine, which in turn increases the MOI about the spine and places more load back on the golfer. In many cases, a longer driver does cause the golfer to unhinge the wrist-cock angle earlier than will a shorter driver because of the greateer load put on the golfer by the higher MOI of the longer length.
http://www.wishongolf.com/etechrepor.../graphic03.jpg
In Diagram #3, you can now see the actual difference in the radius of rotation about the spine for the two different golfers that comes from an early release.
While a longer length driver will only increase this radius of rotation slightly, and from it, increase the MOI and load on the golfer, it is not uncommon for the load from a longer club to actually cause some golfers to begin to release the club earlier than they would when using a shorter length club. In addition, it is not uncommon for the longer length driver and its greater MOI and load to also cause golfers with the tendency toward an outside/in swing path to aggravate that unfavorable swing path even more.
With all this science in mind, the question that still has to be answered is how do we know what golfers are going to be ok with a longer length driver and what golfers will not? First of all, the only possible reason a golfer should think about using a longer length driver is if they are able to increase their swing speed while not decreasing control over the club. The only way to do that is to be able to prevent the dashed line from the spine to the clubhead from increasing in length until late in the downswing, just before impact. In other words, golfers who have the ability to hold the wrist cock angle until late in the downswing, and thereby not increasing the MOI and load in the downswing, are about the only people who have the ability to increase swing speed with a longer length driver.
But at the end of the day, when you think that the average driver length on the PGA Tour has been 44.5” for the past two years, and you remember that the standard length of OEM drivers sold off the rack in retail golf stores is 45-46”, why would any golfer choose to play with a driver length of 45-46”? Golf is a game of percentages, and this information offers a pretty strong case that going shorter for the vast majority of golfers is going to be better rather than worse for their game and shotmaking consistency.

From the new TM ad for their Burner:

"The new TaylorMade Driver (Burner) has a 46" shaft - that means more swing speed, which means more ball speed, which means you ball flies past everyone else's".

TaylorMade's longest driver ever? Who would have thought they were talking about shaft length (and not distance).

But if this is true why stop at 46"? Maybe so next years model can be "the longest driver ever" .....

Quote:

---

But if this is true why stop at 46"? Maybe so next years model can be "the longest driver ever" .....

---

Isn't 46 the maximum allowed by the USGA?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chieflongtee

Isn't 46 the maximum allowed by the USGA?

---

I'm no rules expert, but this is what I found:


http://www.usga.org/playing/clubs_an...he_rules.html#


c. Length
Appendix II, 1c states that: The overall length of the club must be at least 18 inches (457.2 mm) and, except for putters, must not exceed 48 inches (1,219.2 mm).

You are right:
http://www.usga.org/equipment/protoc...ength_r1_1.pdf

However I think they want to get it down to 46 but not sure though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chieflongtee

You are right:
http://www.usga.org/equipment/protoc...ength_r1_1.pdf

However I think they want to get it down to 46 but not sure though.

---

Why?

I think an entire arguement against club length has been made in spades here. If you want to go long, fine. But shorter is better. Wouldn't the USGA have the same thinking?

I'm just questioning out loud here....

R35

PS...I swing a 45.5" only because it feels comfortable and I get my best in terms of consistency with it. That, and I'm an idiot...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rockford35

Why?

I think an entire arguement against club length has been made in spades here. If you want to go long, fine. But shorter is better. Wouldn't the USGA have the same thinking?

I'm just questioning out loud here....

R35

PS...I swing a 45.5" only because it feels comfortable and I get my best in terms of consistency with it. That, and I'm an idiot...

---

There are numerous reports on this and other sites ref length V distance. I can tell you as a former tour pro the following.
I have tested 3 drivers. A 41 inch A 44 inch and A 47 inch. The 41 gives me 102mph with good center contact and around 270 on the fly. the 44 gives me 105mph with reasonable good center contact and flies around the 274 mark, the 47 is no faster than 107mph ss and the center contacts are all over the place and distances are not much different but the flight pattern is much higher. All shafts tested where the Assassin and none where tipped trimmed. I use this setup to show customers that length isnt as important as center contacts. A general rule of thumb is that for every 1 inch of lenth, the ss will increace by around 1 to 1.5mphand distances will increase around 3 foot. The cut off point is where center contacts fade away. I play 44 inch and have no probs. The ave on the tour this year is 44.5 to 44.75. They are all coming down in length and relating to Launch angles and low spins and the tour heads help. The long drive guys use low launch heads on high tees and xxxstiff shafts with low torque, HOWEVER, THEY DONT NEED TO HIT THE FAIRWAYS EVERYTIME. I play with a long drive guy that records 360 yds in comp but he plays a V2 in an SMT head at 45 inches. He knows that the big drives on the course are usually behind trees. They also use different balls than we do and treat the long drives as a joke for money.
Stick to center contacts and easy swings for the short mown green stuff. 44.5 is a lovely length for a good player.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BC MIST

I have written this in the past but perhaps it may be worth repeating.

At a major component company club making seminar years ago, a report was given of a "study" of several golfers hitting balls with drivers of lengths from 42" to, I believe, 46". Almost without exception, the longest drive occurred with the longest club. But more importantly, the LONGEST AVERAGE DRIVE occurred with the 42.5" driver.

For the macho type who wants to brag about the one 325 yarder he hit, on his way to a 90, longer is obviously better. However, for the golfer who wants to consistently hit fairways and score low, shorter is better.

Perhaps the answer is to find out how much distance one gains for every additional inch of club length and then find out how much one loses for hitting the ball an inch off centre. Then, using impact tape, find out how close you are to the centre with a shorter driver (very revealing) and then magnify this error when using a longer driver. Without ego influence, golfers would then play shorter drivers. But, how many of us don't have egos?

---

Believe what you will but I extended my 46" driver 1.5" and gained an avg of 17 yds (carry). It took about a dozen or so swings to get my timing down but the overall swing remained very much the same with approx the same amount of effort. As far as people believing the concept of "drive for show/putt for dough"..... here's a little food for thought... and PLEASE feel free to research it..... the top ten from these two categories from PGA : Avg distance off the tee AND Avg fairways in reg... 1st group averages around 22-24 in the money list! How bout the 2nd group? Well those "Steady Eddies", they're closer to 123rd on the PGA money list!!! You've gotta keep in mind, if I'm having an avg round only hitting, let's say, 50% of fairways and they're having a great round and hitting.... 80% .... I've had 2 or 3 par 4s that I had maybe 7-9 iron in and they simply can't expect to tie or beat me very many times when they have a 4-6 iron in.... The holes that I miss the fairway.... Well heck, I'm still 30 yds past them and folks, you don't always have a bad lie just because you miss the mowed grass! Just sayin....

Interesting video on 48" Driver....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOjL4sI6DAU

I think it really is a personal thing, I used to have a 46" driver and the Chief suggested I go to a 44" or 44.5" driver which I did many years ago. I definitely hit a lot more fairways since then and oddly this club and my putter are my 2 best clubs. I can no longer brag about the rare 270+ drives which were very long for me but I can vouch for my game improving since I went with the shorter club.

Actually there is no set length for anyone. Here is the best article I ever read to maximize distance and find the right length.

Do it yourself fitting

Last year, Chief traded me a 3 wood length driver with a old school steel shaft. Result, hitting more fairways. Tried going back to standard length driver and just cant hit it as straight.

The shaft was a TX-90 True temper. Light steel. Great shaft. Unfortunately they do not make them anymore. The clubhead is a Hireko Thriver. It has the size of a modern driver but 14 degrees of loft. And even though it's got 14 degrees of loft the ball does not fly that high.
Best of both worlds:-)

for golf nerds only

http://docplayer.net/20967386-Driver...s-program.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by john8888

for golf nerds only

http://docplayer.net/20967386-Driver...s-program.html

---

Very interesting read. Thanks for sharing