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I often read a a lot of posts about one component company offering top of the line components but what I would like to know is what makes you believe that KZG is better than Golfworks or why Wishon is better than Golfsmith etc.. I am not asking about clones here.
Keep in mind . Golwforks and Golfsmith have their prices posted on their website while Wishon and KZG's prices are exclusive to clubmakers.
For me it's not so always about "Best" but almost as much about preference.
I have always liked the look of Wishon clubs, back to when he worked at Golfsmith and even Dynacraft.
In terms of technical advantages, the GRT of the Wishon drivers is a HUGE benefit for me since I tend to miss low on the club with driver. The GRT has saved my bacon many times.
The KZG's are absolute butter when hit on the sweet spot.
Admitting to bias here, since I have not played the other component clubs listed. I did play a set of Swing Sync clubs some years ago though.
As I've mentioned in other threads I play KZG irons and FW and absolutely love them (I have Mizuno Driver and wedges, an Adams hybrid and a Yes Putter to complete my bag...and the driver and hybrid were demos).
I will get another set of KZGs when my irons need replacing. But the reason I play them is simply they were the irons made for me by Don at Artisan Golf. When I got into this game I did some research and decided custom clubs was the way to go. I found Don on the internet and the rest is history.
I am sure Wishon and Toski and Maltby, GW etc all make fantastic clubheads and components.
I may be in a minority but I believe big brand OEMs are a mugs game. New products every 6 months and huge sticker prices...I believe the tour pros already earn enough without my money paying for their endorsments and advertising.
I honestly believe these components are just as good and in many cases better than OEMs. I have certainly not hit any forged irons better than my KZGs.
If money were no object, I would play the KZG Zero Offset Blades, with KBS steel shafts.
I love to read specs, and KZG has the style, and the features which appeal to my very traditional tastes. They also, in my opinion, seem to have the highest quality, narrowly edging out the Wishon components. "THE SEARCH FOR THE PERFECT GOLF CLUB", by Tom Wishon, is one of my favorite books, I have read and reread it many times.
Maltby components come next, imo. I am presently playing Distance Master Pro Steel irons and fairway woods, and a Maltby Lady Logic driver.
Golfsmith seems to be more into retailing OEM clubs these days. I assembled several sets using their components years ago in the states.
I am contemplating buying some LH KZG irons and wedges. Based on all the cudos and praise in these forums i figure i should try them. A friend of mine also has a set and loves them... but he has changed shafts 3 times. Over the last 20 years i have (some assembled) played XPC-Snake Eyes-Distance Master-CER-TaylorMade-Callaway-Cleveland-Ping-Wishon-MacGregor-Acer-XDS and maybe a few others. In general i prefer Golfsmith components over Golfworks. Acer/XDS i find very good. (Callaway facsimiles). XDS carbon-steel wedges i really liked.... even better than the Clevelands CG12's. Now i am playing the Snake Eyes 685's. And the amount of LH at Golsmith is dwindling again. Very surprised to see the quantity of LH offered by KZG. Naturally most of the OEM's offer LH.
You can sit and discuss what type/manufacturer of head you like all day long, but somewhere in that conversation you should also discuss the type of shaft employed on those clubs you like so much.
As for component heads alone, and this discussion, based on a/ pure design and appearance, b/ assumed high rating of quality control, and c/ personal experience, i would have to go with Golfsmith - Acer/XDS - Wishon - Golfworks. KZG could figure in very highly once i acquire and play them .. should be this season. Based on a/ and b/ above the KZG product line looks very inviting. And who knows ... maybe zoom to #1 in all 3 categories. Another friend of mine has been playing Raven forged for the last 6-8 years.
I like the KZG, they are by far better quality in my opinion.
I have hit Maltby / CER / Distance Master and they are nice but not the same quality IMO as KZG.
Wishons look really good but I have never hit them or played them.
:-)
Alpha components are made of high quality and have been successful in both the nationwide, senior tours and long drive competitions.
Stever:thumbsup
i think it is more the swing than anything else..the name will not change the result much
I've used a few Wishon clubs , and can't say enough good things about them .Really well made and top quality. I know KZG are good but i've never tried them so i can't comment much about them.
I"ve also had a Maltby driver , and all i'll say is that it was a really bad investment.
But there are also a lot of bad investments in other drivers as well:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilster
http://forum.ottawagolf.com/forumdis...t-Hand-Drivers
:)
Chief you are killing me! :lmfao :lmfao :lmfaoQuote:
Originally Posted by Chieflongtee
KZG are nice but they don't do any of their own clubhead designs according to experts in the clubhead designing business. The foundries own the tooling so KZG heads are just "open stock" so anyone who pays the foundry can have their name stamped on these open stock heads. This saves KZG alot of time and money.
I find this hard to believe as KZG is always raving about their in-house design ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by sailer
I would be interested in seeing any articles or some other proof from the internet or elsewhere.
Here is KZG's History Page from their website: http://www.kzgolf.com/sites/courses/...=31526&sid=737
Maybe they lie about their history?
Seems like a lot of new ideas to me, but what do I know.
I have to correct myself. Some of their designs are theirs like the Evolution irons that they paid Clay Long to design, but the other forgings are open models. I know this from someone who used to be close to their company. Again, a time and money savings. I don't believe they have the technical experitise that they want everyone to think they have....but I'm sure the golfball doesn't know.
Good thing I will be playing KZG Evolutions this season LOL!
I should change my signature to: Proud KZG owner!
:-)
Great looking clubhead for sure! I don't believe there is a more intelligent designer then Wishon though. I for one am very pleased Wishon turned down Titleist's offer to head their entire clubhead design team back in 2002. Great for us clubmaker's to have Wishon on our side. Have a great golf season everyone!
I also find this very hard to believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by sailer
All KZG forged irons are double forged in Japan and are very very high end forgings. The VAST majority of OEM forgings are forged in China and Taiwan. (Mizuno and KZG are the only Japanese forged irons I know of for certain) To my knowledge none of the OEMs forgings are forged in the USA. Even of the cast irons I believe only Ping are USA made, the rest are made in China.
I have never seen any other irons resembling KZG designs and lets be honest...the market is hardly awash with high end forged KZG knock-offs. KZG list 5 designers on the webite (including Clay Long)
There are only a small number of foundries in the world making golf clubs so people forget that all those Callaways, Titleist, Taylor Mades etc etc etc are all made in the same place by the same people using the same machinary and that those large OEM companies don't actually "make" anything...they just assemble, en masse, components made by various factories and foundries around the world.
Of course KZG, Wishon and the other high end component companies do this too...but they do it one at a time..per customer...and I believe that is what seperates them
I think that Callaway used to do their forging in Japan, but I could be wrong.
By far the best component head out there is made by Krank Golf.
The "Krank Rage" has won the majority of long drive tournaments. Check the scoop on this head at
http://www.krankgolf.com/
and before one can say that it is because mainly long drivers use the head.
You will notice what they claim, Quote - "Krank Golf® sells 95% of our golf drivers to regular golfers and only 5% of our golf driver sales are to Long Drive Golfers. Krank Golf® has sold over 100,000 golf drivers worldwide."
They have a great component designs found in their fairway and hybrids as well.
They are also releasing a new head design in the new year, the Krank Element.
This head has heal and toe weighting, with an advanced hydro milled face and advanced energy transfer technology. Great looking and performing head.
Steve :thumbsup
www.straightballgolf.com
I have to update my posts in this thread.
I have now played the Wishon 919Thi driver and the Wishon 775hs hybrid for an entire season.
I have also now played the KZG Evolution irons for an entire season.
First the KZG Evolution irons; they have been absolutely amazing. My decision to go back to a blade for the first time in about 15 years was a very good one. The feedback is very good and as Kilroy says when you hit it pure on the sweet spot it is incredible. The forgiveness was a lot better than I thought it would be. My iron play definitely improved with these. On a bad note with KZG, I emailed the KZG president and mentioned I had picked the irons up used and had some questions about them and she never got back to me. I then tried calling the KZG customer service and they are amazing, very knowledable and extremely helpful and answered all my questions.
The Wishon driver and hybrid have been very solid and will not leave my bag any time soon. Both the driver and the hybrid are the best I have ever hit and I may even order a 4 hybrid as well for next season. I had a very small issue with a weight port cover on the sole of my hybrid. I messaged Tom Wishon directly on the Golfwrx.com forum and he replied back to me very quickly. Tom offerd to fix the issue and then send it back to me. I would only have to pay one way shipping. I ended up buying some epoxy and fixing the issue with Tom's directions. The hybrid is as good as new and Tom Wishon's customer service and support is amazing. I have messaged him a few times directly with questions about his products and general questions about club making and he has always replied and been incredibly helpful. I am now a huge Wishon guy.
This is after many years of being a Callaway Fanboy.
Good to hear your results and I'm really glad you found the combo that works for you. Now you can stop thinking about the arrows and focus on the archer!
My son just evaluated the Krank Golf Rage Black tonight. It had the identical shafts as his gamer Adams 9064LS.
Built to same spec's. Adams 9064LS won hands down, longer and straighter, plus it looks a lot nicer at address.
Anyone want to buy a used LH'ed Krank Golf driver head ... its only hit a few balls one trip to the range.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slammin' Stever
Great!, You must know by now what works for one does not always work for another. Different Heads, shafts, lengths, lofts, weights, grips, etc., all play a factor in finding the perfect club. With what sounds like another successful fitting maybe we will see your son on the long drive tour. All the best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TourIQ
So very true Slammin' Stever; his bag has changed a lot this year, as the change to clubheads were pretty dormant for 8 years since what he had was working. What hasn't changed for him in over a dozen years are his shafts, grips and build specs, so its easy to evaluate just a head and pick the keepers to game. Everything is steel shafted XX flex except his driver which is XXX flex graphite.
He picks heads based on 'how it fits his eye at address', he dismisses most designs and he has never been on a LM so he doesn't know any of his numbers ... the #'s wouldn't mean anything to him. The woods from Adams Golf hit a Grand Slam this week, as he picked the 9064LS driver, F11 Ti 3W (made into a 4W) and Pro Black 9031 3/20 hybrid. I picked the Krank Golf Rage Black on a whim and he didn't like its looks after it arrived.
When I purchased the Pro Black 9031 hybrid used last summer he tried it once on the range and it wasn't nothing special, not good enough to kick out the Nickent Genex 3DX since 2004. The 9031 had a high end X flex graphite shaft, whereas his Nickent had a steel shaft which matched his iron and wedge set. Then I reshafted the 9031 last week to match the same steel shaft and build spec's as his Nickent and then Adams 9031 was better.
He is 5'10" and hit 360 yards several times on the flat with no wind, so not good enough for the Long Drive competitions, nor does this interests him. Instead he loves to be a 'birdie machine' on the course.
Probably get a lot of different opinions, but we believe the head is the most critical component, more important than the shaft. Sure they both work together to find the optimal club, so we standardize the shaft and tinker with the clubhead to find a better match to the player.
I am sure the Krank Golf Rage Black is great in the right hands, just wasn't for him. All the best in return.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slammin' Stever
TourIQ,
Sounds like a few more inches on the shaft and he would hit with the big guy's on the long drive tour with no problem. You know first and foremost for a club maker, the component has to fit the customers eye or no matter what we do, the "minds eye" will never accept the change for the better.
Your up in Wingham Ontario..correct?
Take care ..
Stever:thumbsup
Quote:
Originally Posted by TourIQ
In the case of the KGRB driver, it didn't fit his eye but never-the-less, he is still real objective when he trials a club I assemble, as he is looking for a performance gain, the only real reason for a change in clubs.
He played 47 inch driver for several years, but found it flatten out his swing and he wasn't as sharp tee-2-green with his irons ... so we chopped his driver to 45 inches and his ball striking with irons improved.
Yes Wingham, ON, Canada in Huron County ... part of the rural boonies, he, he!
Stever, where do you find the icons? All the BEST, HARRY!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slammin' Stever
TourIQ, I got my picture at the Ottawa golf and travel show. I had a booth there. Is the Dairy King still there in Wingham? Did you know Lev Balser? Live on Shutter or Francis st..:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TourIQ
Stever, the big attraction for fast food in Wingham is the Frosty Queen, I don't ever remember an establishment called Dairy King.
The Frosty Queen use to run several cruise nights and once a year had a burn-out where guys could rip the tires off the rims, LOL.
Sorry don't know a Lev Balser and I've been in Wingham 30 years. I'm at 169 Patrick St. E, across from the Hospital staff parking lot.
If you get to my neck of the woods to visit family and friends, drop in for a cold refreshment. I'll give you a tour of "the Studio" ... my wife calls it the Dungeon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slammin' Stever
Hi TourIQ,
Yes that was the place! We lived in Clinton and we use to drop by there when visiting my uncle. My uncle's oldest son, Dean worked for a while at the Wingham TV station just down the street from where they lived. My grand parents lived on just off of Shuter and John st. 263 Shuter.
I still have relatives in that area. I will take you up on that invite when I am down in that area.
Take Care,
Stever:thumbup
Quote:
Originally Posted by TourIQ
I think with irons Wishon, Hireko, Swing Science and Maltby have some of the best iron heads.
Krank has probably the best story to tell when it comes to Drivers. Their driver heads are all hand built and as such there seems to be a little more detail or accuracy on lofts. They have a super hard heat treating that does not allow conventional welding processes to be used and must be welded by hand. So high volume production is out of the question.
What does this mean....less energy loss at impact! Pound for pound Longer. their long Drive record supports that.
Geek has produced another Long Drive Champion with their new No Brainer. Steve Almo stands behind his product 120% and the DCT and No Brainer are both LD Champions.
Wishon Hybrids are awesome, as are his Fairways.
Heriko / (Jeff Summit) has developed some great irons and they have a new titanium FWY as well that i have not been able to get as yet.
Wouldn't it be interesting to see what would happen if there were no equipment sponsors in professional golf?
this i'd like to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kona Golf
I remember a couple of players who were not sponsored a few years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by gregnol
Jim Furyk and Roco Mediate.
They both had a back full of clubs that they liked.
I believe Roco was sponsored by Dick's Sporting Goods that season
Would be incredibly interestingQuote:
Originally Posted by Kona Golf
I've always gone with Golfworks mainly because of availability. If shipping, and customs etc were no option I would love to try some Wishon product. Also I'm hearing more buzz on Alpha and Heriko.
Hireko golf makes some very good component heads. Kzg are excellent .
gb
After working with Swing Science over the past several months, I would definitely put their components high on the list. Excellent product, quality and offering.
http://swingscience.net/
I'm a little surprised Golfworks scored a little low. I've played their forgings and their best seller castings and their excellent. On their forum a fellow named Britt who played the mini tours says he'll put their components up against anything in the industry.