Aces are Wild

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10-21-2008 06:05 PM
BC MIST

Aces are Wild

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwi battler

So general concensus has it , unbunch your panties and KEEP POSTING lol

Well, all right!! Let's see if the writing/reading has improved.

Gerry is down 4 holes with 5 to play when we arrive at #14 at Greensmere. I watch him pull his 7 iron out of the bag. With a mighty slash into the October breeze he lofts the ball high into the air and it gently drops on to the green spinning back into the hole for an ace. After his bellow stops echoing amongst the trees he turns to me and says, "That's my first hole in one with a 5 iron."

What's the ruling?
10-21-2008 06:13 PM
NoBack

BC Mist has a flare with the words this evening and Gerry gets a lesson and goes 5 down? :scratchch

Would letting your fellow competitor know your club not be like giving advice and in match play loss of hole?
10-21-2008 06:40 PM
BC MIST

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoBack

BC Mist has a flare with the words this evening and Gerry gets a lesson and goes 5 down? :scratchch

Would letting your fellow competitor know your club not be like giving advice and in match play loss of hole?

Gerry is usually more than 5 down by this point, but I thought I would write so that he would seem to still have a snowball's chance in Haites to win.:)

In this scenario the other player is an opponent versus a fellow competitor and so the consequence would be different. Yes, it is like giving advice in that his intent was to con me into hitting a longer club than required, presumably over the green, guaranteeing him the win. But, did it work?:scratchch
10-21-2008 06:52 PM
jvincent

That Gerry, he's a crafty one, but it's game over.

Quote:

8-1/9 Misleading Statement About Club Selection

Q. A made a statement regarding his club selection which was purposely misleading and was obviously intended to be overheard by B, who had a similar shot. What is the ruling?

A. A was in breach of Rule 8-1 and lost the hole in match play or incurred a two-stroke penalty in stroke play.
10-21-2008 07:38 PM
BC MIST

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvincent

That Gerry, he's a crafty one, but it's game over.

Close, but no cigar.
10-21-2008 07:38 PM
LobWedge

1 Attachment(s)

You're a bad man Gerry! You are a very, very bad man!
10-21-2008 07:43 PM
jvincent

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC MIST

Close, but no cigar.

Just curious, why not? I think the quoted decision covers it exactly.

I am assuming that Gerry was wearing his glasses and was able to distinguish a "7" from a "5" and as such intentionally misled you.
10-21-2008 07:58 PM
gbower

A little more :book needed in this one. Only BC could dig deep enough to find this one. :-)
10-22-2008 07:06 AM
BC MIST

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvincent

Just curious, why not? I think the quoted decision covers it exactly.

I am assuming that Gerry was wearing his glasses and was able to distinguish a "7" from a "5" and as such intentionally misled you.

He was, he could and he did.

You did quote the decision correctly and at first glance it makes sense and is the appropriate consequence. But, Rule 2-2 says, "When a player has holed out and his opponent has been left with a stroke for the half, if the player subsequently incurs a penalty, the hole is halved." Gerry was in in 1, I had a shot to tie him, and he then broke a rule. Halved hole. While the decision you quoted and the statement above somewhat conflict with each other, the statement supersedes the decision. Now, is the hole is halved with holes in one? :)

If Gerry's stroke finished 1" from the hole, he definitely loses the hole. My evil mind now asks one more question. What happens if Gerry's ball is lodged against the flagstick with just enough ball above the hole to be visible from the tee and where there is no doubt that when the FS is moved slightly, the ball will fall into the hole?
10-22-2008 09:38 AM
LobWedge

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC MIST

He was, he could and he did.

You did quote the decision correctly and at first glance it makes sense and is the appropriate consequence. But, Rule 2-2 says, "When a player has holed out and his opponent has been left with a stroke for the half, if the player subsequently incurs a penalty, the hole is halved." Gerry was in in 1, I had a shot to tie him, and he then broke a rule. Halved hole. While the decision you quoted and the statement above somewhat conflict with each other, the statement supersedes the decision. Now, is the hole is halved with holes in one? :)

If Gerry's stroke finished 1" from the hole, he definitely loses the hole. My evil mind now asks one more question. What happens if Gerry's ball is lodged against the flagstick with just enough ball above the hole to be visible from the tee and where there is no doubt that when the FS is moved slightly, the ball will fall into the hole?

If you read 2-6, then yes, the hole is halved with aces.

As far as the second question goes, Gerry would be permitted to exercise his rights under Rule 17-4. You cannot concede his next stroke because technically his hole is not complete until he is allowed to move or remove the flagstick to see if the ball will continue to the bottom of the hole. (reference Dec. 17-4/2)
10-22-2008 09:44 AM
jvincent

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC MIST

He was, he could and he did.

You did quote the decision correctly and at first glance it makes sense and is the appropriate consequence. But, Rule 2-2 says, "When a player has holed out and his opponent has been left with a stroke for the half, if the player subsequently incurs a penalty, the hole is halved."

That's a funny one.

IMHO if you have incurred a penalty where the penalty is loss of hole, then 2-2 should not be applied.
10-22-2008 01:25 PM
Sakuraba

Gerry loses the hole in the scenario where the ball is stuck against the pin, because the ball is not considered "holed" until the pin is removed.
10-22-2008 03:19 PM
LobWedge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sakuraba

Gerry loses the hole in the scenario where the ball is stuck against the pin, because the ball is not considered "holed" until the pin is removed.

Not quite. While Gerry has made a stroke at the ball, the result of that stroke is not decided until the flagstick is removed from the hole. 17-4 entitles Gerry, or another person authorized by him, to remove the flagstick in order to determine whether or not the ball is considered holed with the previous stroke.
10-23-2008 10:01 AM
Sakuraba

Quote:

Originally Posted by LobWedge

Not quite. While Gerry has made a stroke at the ball, the result of that stroke is not decided until the flagstick is removed from the hole. 17-4 entitles Gerry, or another person authorized by him, to remove the flagstick in order to determine whether or not the ball is considered holed with the previous stroke.

But while we are wiating for the result of the stroke, our good man Gerry breaches 8-1, right?
10-23-2008 11:37 AM
LobWedge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sakuraba

But while we are wiating for the result of the stroke, our good man Gerry breaches 8-1, right?

Not necessarily. Pending the result of the flagstick being removed, either 8-1 or 2-2 could apply. If the flag is removed and the ball remains unholed then yes, 8-1 applies, and Gerry loses the hole. But if the ball is considered holed after the flagstick is removed, Rule 2-2 applies, and the hole is halved.

The really cool thing about all of this is, if the ball is holed, BC gets to claim the rarest of all feats. A hole-in-one without making a stroke. :-)
10-23-2008 02:35 PM
g8r

what if he though it was his 5 iron? do you need to prove intent to mislead?
also, what is the ruling if he said the correct club?
10-23-2008 04:53 PM
LobWedge

Quote:

Originally Posted by g8r

what if he though it was his 5 iron? do you need to prove intent to mislead?
also, what is the ruling if he said the correct club?

"Advice" is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke.

Whether you say the right club or not, you're best off to keep those comments to yourself.
10-23-2008 07:33 PM
Indio

Quote:

Originally Posted by LobWedge

The really cool thing about all of this is, if the ball is holed, BC gets to claim the rarest of all feats. A hole-in-one without making a stroke. :-)

Stroke or not, he still has to buy the round :thumbsup;)