What is the difference? should I think be thinking of getting out of my g2's for some components? seems like everyone is talking about them lately. What is the big deal? Are they better than the big names like TM, ping, Titelist?
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What is the difference? should I think be thinking of getting out of my g2's for some components? seems like everyone is talking about them lately. What is the big deal? Are they better than the big names like TM, ping, Titelist?
A good set of components, Wishon 550's or 560's for example, are as good as any OEM on the market. Getting properly fitted with components is a heck of a lot better than buying off the shelf, where "one size fits all," still exists. And the cost to you should be a hecka of a lot less, as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by thotho
Having said that, what's wrong with your G2's? If nothing, work on your swing because if it's broken, neither G2's nor a new component set is going to help.
For starters, let's weed out the obvious clone companies that design clubheads to look just like an OEM.
The remainder of the component companies (Wishon, Maltby, KZG, SMT, etc.) all produce very good designs. In many cases as good or better than some of the OEMs. The question is how you define "better".
As with all clubs, each design has a different target audience. For example you wouldn't normally give my zero-offset forged Wishon blades to a high handicapper. But they also make progressive offset, cavity backs just for those guys. For many people it's as much about the look of the club and feeling more comfortable over it than anything else.
Traditionally the big plus for components is that you had to get them from a clubmaker so the assumption is that they would be properly fit to you. The OEMs and their distribution channel are getting better at this, but it's still a far cry from a dedicated fitting.
If you build your own there can also be a financial advantage. It cost me about $300 less to build my irons (forged blades + ProjectX shafts) than what it would have cost to buy an equivalent set of Mizuno's or Titleists. Are they better? In that I built them to my spec, yes. Are the Mizunos or Titleists sweet clubs that would work just as well for me if I could have bought the heads and installed shafts to my spec? Yes.
I actually love my clubs, the g2s have been doing really well for me lately. I have been custom fit by ping. Just thought maybe I'll jump on this bandwagon as well :) Still have 4 lessons left at golftown, but so far it has done wonders with my swing
This is a touchy subject I think. I find that people who own the component clubs and clubmakers that only carry KZG, Maltby, Wishon, etc. will say they are better than any or as good as any OEM club. Now, my brother was fit before in Ottawa with component clubs and used them for a couple of years. He was custom fit by a clubmaker and everything but it didn't really improve his game much. I really have a hard time believing that a club will ever be the reason your game has improved unless you are using something that is way out to left field for your game like a set of forged blades and you shoot 110 on a regular basis.
That being said, I have a hard time believing the engineering and research and development are close to the same for Titleist or Cleveland compared to component clubs. You could also use the arguement that if component clubs were as good or better than OEM because they are fitted, then how come Tour players aren't just getting clubmakers to make them a set of KZG's fit to their game? Fact is, you can get your irons custom ordered for you after a fitting by a clubmaker for your swing etc..How does that differ from going to a clubmaker and having him fit you? Not much in my opinion.
The bulk of the staff at Titleist, Callaway, Ping, etc. are really devoted to marketing. They have tech guys too, but in much smaller numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by EdmontonGolfer
The reason the tour guys don't play component is strictly about money. They get paid to play clubs and all of the component guys simply can't afford it.
The head of SMT golf posted about what it would cost him to have a presence on tour. I think the number was close to $1M to support a SINGLE player. Without huge sales to back that up, it's hard for them to support a tour presence.
Ordering a set up clubs to a certain spec is quite different than building a set to spec. The tour van or custom clubmaker can make sure that Tiger's 5-iron is exactly 325cpm (making the number up). That is very different than ordering a set of irons with Dynamic Gold S400. Now whether it matters for us hackers is a different story.
The key words were "Custom fit by Ping" In other words they fit those irons to your swing thotho and that is all you can do. Other than shaft tweaking your irons likely have the proper lie for your swing.Quote:
Originally Posted by thotho
I play Wishon 550C's. Bought them last year, built for $225 Cnd. Had them bent 2 up. Shafts are fine for my swing. They are really good irons, I would not hesitate to tell anyone to have a set built.
However you seem to be happy with your G2's so why change right now? Continue with your lessons and that will help you.
Why change? what kind of question is that from one club hoe to another?
Golfsmitrh, Maltby and particularly Tom Wishon, do a huge amount of R & D and are, in the case of Wishon far ahead of some OEM's in this department.Quote:
Originally Posted by EdmontonGolfer
This is an "old" arguement, but would you take $200,000 for playing KZG's orQuote:
Originally Posted by EdmontonGolfer
$2,000,000 for playng Titleists? Why do you think a forged set of Titleists costs $1000 plus? Cause you are paying a huge amount of that $2,000,000. Tom Wishon made Scott Verplank's and Bruce Lietzke clubs when he was at Golfsmith, but lack of a huge endorsement contracts made them move on.
There is custom fitting(Titleist) and then there is custom fitting (Wishon).Quote:
Originally Posted by EdmontonGolfer
This is another tired argument that has been brought up time after time. Try using the search feature and you'll find that this has been covered before.
The fact is that there will always be OEM guys and component guys. The OEM guys will say that OEM's are better because the tour players use them and they are proven. Component guys will argue that component companies don't have the money for tour presence, people buy them for status and that you can get a more custom fit. Both are true and false.
OEM's have great heads, there downside is quality control with such things as spinning, shaft flexes and even lofts. All of these things can be fixed. Those who know me on this forum know that I am a die hard Titleist guy, why Titleist? I don't really know. When I started golfing my dream set was Titleist, I love the look of their clubs and they are name that has been associated with success for years. When I got my last set of 690.CB's the first thing I did was take them to a club maker and have the shafts checked for flex and the loft and lie angles checked. Luckily, except for the lies, my clubs were good to go. I realize that with mass production comes mistakes and less attention to detail, but if you really like your OEM's then it is a small price to pay to have the specs checked and changed if need be and with the price of used OEM's on boards like this and golfers like Geoff (just can't pass up the opportunity!) they are affordable.
Components can be great, my first set was a custom made Dynacraft set which looked like Ping I3's. The clubs worked well but the fitting wasn't the greatest and I always had doubt about my lies and flex throughout the set because of weird shots that looked like more then just a poor swing.
Components are only as good as the club maker fitting them and the same goes with OEM's. Have your clubs fit regardless of OEM or component by a qualified club maker and the only difference will be which club you like the best. And stay away from any clone crap!
Sorry EG but even an Idiot like Indio can blow holes in that arguement :-) The component makers are not going to give several tour players multi-million dollar endorsements to play their component clubs and besides, the OEM clubs each player uses has been fine tuned to death to suit their game so they really aren't off the shelf OEM clubs anyway. Do you really think tiger likes the Nike SQ more than his old Titelist? Nope but the endorsement money sure does make him carry the Nike in the bag in case he has to use a driver :)Quote:
Originally Posted by EdmontonGolfer
Just my 2¢
Because I beat you with a set of KZG Evolution Forged irons and KZG Gemini woods!Quote:
Why change? ... I COULD NOT BEAT DAN!!!!
Classic rebuttal!:laughing:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Kilbank
I am no longer a Certified Club Ho. I dumped everything last week except for two sets of irons and one other driver and putter. I am no longer the Ho of St Thomas :laughing: But seriously, why change if you like the irons you have? I once played the same set of irons for 12 years. Some marriages do not last that long :-) I liked those irons, I just wanted something new when I got rid of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by thotho
I couldn't resist. :D
To bad bobby canceled because I would have loved to kick your ass today!!! lol
I'm not changing my sig or the little blurb under my handle until I beat you!
PS next time I should get an extra stroke if you use a cart ;) Kidding! Enjoy your cart old man
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Kilbank
'Dick' 'Dick' 'Dick' you sure have had several cases of 'Hoof in Mouth' lately.... I think everyone on the forum saw that one coming! :-)
So in other words we won't be seeing a change in that signature for a long long long time :laughing:Quote:
Originally Posted by thotho
That may take some time. Good luck with that!Quote:
I'm not changing my sig or the little blurb under my handle until I beat you!<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
Its possible that it may never happen but from what I understand with the strokes given anyone can beat anyone.. its a 50/50 shot so anything can happen :) But I'm with you, it will take a long time hahhahaahQuote:
Originally Posted by Golfbum
But I'm a man of my word, i will not change it until I beat him
Except that I will never be nervous when we tee it up. Welcome to match play! :hyper:Quote:
from what I understand with the strokes given anyone can beat anyone.. its a 50/50 shot so anything can happen
If you look at the post directly above yours, dbleber explains exactly what I was trying to say. Whether or not a Tour player uses the same club as bought off the shelf is not the issue anyway if you take your clubs to a fitter to have them fit for you or order them tweaked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indio
Are you telling me the marketing and sales guys come up with designs for the clubs or engineering specs?:irked:Quote:
Originally Posted by jvincent
The FACT is, that OEM companies have guys out in Tour vans working with players to see what actually works and test it with the people who are Professionals at the game. That's why they give them "protos" to work with and then release the retail version after like in the case of the Titleist 906F2. There were Tour Pro's testing different versions of it before this thing was produced.
I'm pretty sure there's more R&D and actually hands on stuff done by Titleist over what KZG is doing.
I meant as a percentage of their staff, they have many more sales and marketing staff than R&D.Quote:
Originally Posted by EdmontonGolfer
Ofcourse there is more done for the tour guys.. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in the dark.. BUT.. Compare the tolerences on a over-the-counter- TaylorMade compared to a TM in somone like Goosen's bag..
This thread was about a guy wanting to compare OEM to Components.. I am pretty certain he would be looking for a set of Retail clubs.. Clubs that have not been blueprinted, spined, flo'ed, lie and lofted...
Bottom line is, Retail OEM and Tour OEM are two totally different animals.. Sure, they start off as the same thing practically, but end result is different.
Component manufacturing makes a better product for you and me..
OEM's make better product for tour guys... Us mortals get clubs that have lofts that should say "9.5* (Or atleast around there)"